Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
guinness

Colts in bottom league

Recommended Posts


Beyond a joke this idea is still being lorded around. 

  • Benefits no one apart from SP giving their young players more competitive games
  • 19/20 year olds playing in League 2 are not likely going to be good enough to play at a World Cup Final 
  • Blatant bribery of lower league clubs to go against wish of their fans by guaranteeing crowd money
  • Say it isn't but it's clearly a way to keep a Rangers and Celtic presence if they ever piss off to another league.

Requires 11/12 top flights to vote for it then 75% from rest of the leagues. As a club moving towards fan ownership, if St Mirren don't canvas supporters for how they'll vote my SMISA membership will be immediately cancelled and my season ticket not renewed. Don't mind if a vote comes out yes to colts, as long as there is one. Not a threat, it's something that I feel that strongly about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beyond a joke this idea is still being lorded around. 
  • Benefits no one apart from SP giving their young players more competitive games
  • 19/20 year olds playing in League 2 are not likely going to be good enough to play at a World Cup Final 
  • Blatant bribery of lower league clubs to go against wish of their fans by guaranteeing crowd money
  • Say it isn't but it's clearly a way to keep a Rangers and Celtic presence if they ever piss off to another league.
Requires 11/12 top flights to vote for it then 75% from rest of the leagues. As a club moving towards fan ownership, if St Mirren don't canvas supporters for how they'll vote my SMISA membership will be immediately cancelled and my season ticket not renewed. Don't mind if a vote comes out yes to colts, as long as there is one. Not a threat, it's something that I feel that strongly about. 
Do you really expect to get consulted on every decision the club votes on as a member of SPFL?
You do realise that your vote would be around 1 of 1300. That's 1/1300 of approximately 65-70% of the shares at best. Of course, the 65-70 % is still controlled by Gordon Scott is it not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Do you really expect to get consulted on every decision the club votes on as a member of SPFL?
You do realise that your vote would be around 1 of 1300. That's 1/1300 of approximately 65-70% of the shares at best. Of course, the 65-70 % is still controlled by Gordon Scott is it not?

Every decision? No, don't recall me ever saying EVERY decision. 

A decision that will change the fabric of our league format, strengthen Rangers and Celtic further, turn the bottom two leagues into development leagues, potentially cost us some promising young players and that a great number of fans not only for St Mirren but across other clubs are venomously against... Funnily enough, yeah I would want a club that's wanting to move to fan ownership to engage fans. It has a direct impact on what we're left with when the shares move to fans, of course I know who controls the shares right now but to think that's an excuse for not listening to the majority of your fans is nothing short of ridiculous. Thinking it's unreasonable for fans to be consulted on this? Have a look at other forums and social media, it's causing similar backlash to the Sevco fiasco. Crazy comment  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Every decision? No, don't recall me ever saying EVERY decision.  A decision that will change the fabric of our league format, strengthen Rangers and Celtic further, turn the bottom two leagues into development leagues, potentially cost us some promising young players and that a great number of fans not only for St Mirren but across other clubs are venomously against... Funnily enough, yeah I would want a club that's wanting to move to fan ownership to engage fans. It has a direct impact on what we're left with when the shares move to fans, of course I know who controls the shares right now but to think that's an excuse for not listening to the majority of your fans is nothing short of ridiculous. Thinking it's unreasonable for fans to be consulted on this? Have a look at other forums and social media, it's causing similar backlash to the Sevco fiasco. Crazy comment  

 

It won't change the fabric of the league format. Fans across Scotland don't appear to want it, clubs will vote for what they think is in the interests of their board.

If you have a strong opinion take it up with the guy who sits on the St. Mirren board representing smisa.

Not sure it's a majority of fans against but I'm sure you'll be able to evidence this.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It won't change the fabric of the league format. Fans across Scotland don't appear to want it, clubs will vote for what they think is in the interests of their board. If you have a strong opinion take it up with the guy who sits on the St. Mirren board representing smisa.
Not sure it's a majority of fans against but I'm sure you'll be able to evidence this.
 
 
 
Time this thread got one of those votey survey thingies on it, me thinks. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

It won't change the fabric of the league format. Fans across Scotland don't appear to want it, clubs will vote for what they think is in the interests of their board.

If you have a strong opinion take it up with the guy who sits on the St. Mirren board representing smisa.

Not sure it's a majority of fans against but I'm sure you'll be able to evidence this.

 

 

 

I certainly can thanks. Recent fan survey over 74% of respondents were against Colt teams in the league format. It was the biggest fan survey of it's kind in Scotland and I believe very useful as it evidenced there was not a large drag to Rangers and Celtic fans (As in they were not the majority of respondents) 

I have taken it up with both SMISA and St Mirren direct. Don't get me wrong I fully believe St Mirren will consult fans on this or simply vote no based on overwhelming evidence that the majority are against further pandering to the big two in this country. My point is purely my relationship with the club would be damaged beyond repair if they choose not to. 

You say it won't change the fabric of the league. So extending the bottom tier to 12 teams, two teams in it not being able to be relegated, a change in fixtures and income distribution, a complete disregard for the four leagues below L2 in the pyramid, a third place team potentially being able to be crowned champions, a sixth place team potentially being able to get promoted and a third bottom placed team potentially being relegated. If that doesn't change the fabric of the league format I'd love to know what you think would? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I certainly can thanks. Recent fan survey over 74% of respondents were against Colt teams in the league format. It was the biggest fan survey of it's kind in Scotland and I believe very useful as it evidenced there was not a large drag to Rangers and Celtic fans (As in they were not the majority of respondents) 
I have taken it up with both SMISA and St Mirren direct. Don't get me wrong I fully believe St Mirren will consult fans on this or simply vote no based on overwhelming evidence that the majority are against further pandering to the big two in this country. My point is purely my relationship with the club would be damaged beyond repair if they choose not to. 
You say it won't change the fabric of the league. So extending the bottom tier to 12 teams, two teams in it not being able to be relegated, a change in fixtures and income distribution, a complete disregard for the four leagues below L2 in the pyramid, a third place team potentially being able to be crowned champions, a sixth place team potentially being able to get promoted and a third bottom placed team potentially being relegated. If that doesn't change the fabric of the league format I'd love to know what you think would? 
The league fabric stuff is ifs, buts and maybes.
The survey is just a survey, it's by no means indicative of all fans.


FWIW, I don't want any Colts teams in the league either. My point is it wouldn't fundamentally affect my relationship with the club to the point that I would withdraw any funding. It's kinda toys out of the pram stuff and one of the main doubts I have regarding fan ownership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

The league fabric stuff is ifs, buts and maybes.
The survey is just a survey, it's by no means indicative of all fans.


FWIW, I don't want any Colts teams in the league either. My point is it wouldn't fundamentally affect my relationship with the club to the point that I would withdraw any funding. It's kinda toys out of the pram stuff and one of the main doubts I have regarding fan ownership.

It's not ifs buts and maybes mate, Celtic and Rangers published plans. That's what they're proposing. 

The survey is just a survey, like the 1,000+ comments on P&B are just comments and the 100s on twitter are just tweets. To think there is no correlation between the overwhelming negativity, very few positive comments and a Survey that had over five figures in respondents isn't clear cut evidence that fans aren't for it is truly baffling. Is that actually what you think, that there is no evidence fans are against this? 

I don't think it is at all. Fans are a clubs main stakeholder, if a club has strong evidence of a very unpopular proposal that fans do not want and makes a decision without consulting fans, that for me and others would be very hard to take.

I think fans need to make a stance on this (if evidence exists the club will vote in favor without consulting us). I'm surprised you don't agree with club fans standing up for what they believe in. Football is a game, the fans are of the utmost importance. There's no justification not to consult them.

Again let me stress, I fully believe St Mirren will consult, or will vote against based on overwhelming evidence that this is against most fans wishes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's not ifs buts and maybes mate, Celtic and Rangers published plans. That's what they're proposing. 
The survey is just a survey, like the 1,000+ comments on P&B are just comments and the 100s on twitter are just tweets. To think there is no correlation between the overwhelming negativity, very few positive comments and a Survey that had over five figures in respondents isn't clear cut evidence that fans aren't for it is truly baffling. Is that actually what you think, that there is no evidence fans are against this? 
I don't think it is at all. Fans are a clubs main stakeholder, if a club has strong evidence of a very unpopular proposal that fans do not want and makes a decision without consulting fans, that for me and others would be very hard to take.
I think fans need to make a stance on this (if evidence exists the club will vote in favor without consulting us). I'm surprised you don't agree with club fans standing up for what they believe in. Football is a game, the fans are of the utmost importance. There's no justification not to consult them.
Again let me stress, I fully believe St Mirren will consult, or will vote against based on overwhelming evidence that this is against most fans wishes. 
You should probably have read all of my post and digested it and understood it before replying to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I certainly can thanks. Recent fan survey over 74% of respondents were against Colt teams in the league format. It was the biggest fan survey of it's kind in Scotland and I believe very useful as it evidenced there was not a large drag to Rangers and Celtic fans (As in they were not the majority of respondents) 

I have taken it up with both SMISA and St Mirren direct. Don't get me wrong I fully believe St Mirren will consult fans on this or simply vote no based on overwhelming evidence that the majority are against further pandering to the big two in this country. My point is purely my relationship with the club would be damaged beyond repair if they choose not to. 

You say it won't change the fabric of the league. So extending the bottom tier to 12 teams, two teams in it not being able to be relegated, a change in fixtures and income distribution, a complete disregard for the four leagues below L2 in the pyramid, a third place team potentially being able to be crowned champions, a sixth place team potentially being able to get promoted and a third bottom placed team potentially being relegated. If that doesn't change the fabric of the league format I'd love to know what you think would? 

So is your issue that they may not consult the fans at all or that they will vote for it without consulting the fans?  Why do you seem to be OK with them voting against it without consulting the fans?

 

Will you take the actions you mentioned if they vote either way (or abstain) without fan consultation, or just if they vote for it without fan consultation?  What actions would you take if they voted for it after consulting the fans?

 

For clarity, I'm against the idea of colts too, so this is not a dig at your opinion, more a request for clarity on your stance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

So is your issue that they may not consult the fans at all or that they will vote for it without consulting the fans?  Why do you seem to be OK with them voting against it without consulting the fans?

 

Will you take the actions you mentioned if they vote either way (or abstain) without fan consultation, or just if they vote for it without fan consultation?  What actions would you take if they voted for it after consulting the fans?

 

For clarity, I'm against the idea of colts too, so this is not a dig at your opinion, more a request for clarity on your stance.

I think this should be approached from a common sense point of view. They majority of fans are against this. Several surveys on social media in last couple days, a massive fan survey published last year, social media and forum comments. I don't think anyone genuinely thinks there's more for and this is likely more a Devils Advocate kind of post. That's why I would be fine with them rejecting it. What's the old expression? 'I don't need a weather man to tell me when it's pissing down.' 

If they put it to some sort of fan consultation/ vote and the consensus that fans were in favor of this idea and that was how they voted then fine, I wouldn't like it but it would be the right thing to do. Again common sense should prevail and  we should be able to see that isn't really an issue. In all honesty I can count on one hand the number of non Old Firm fans that have said they're in favor of this. 

I appreciate getting clarity, it's understandable mate but I just feel it's something most fans are on the same side of. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:
2 hours ago, bazil85 said:
It's not ifs buts and maybes mate, Celtic and Rangers published plans. That's what they're proposing. 
The survey is just a survey, like the 1,000+ comments on P&B are just comments and the 100s on twitter are just tweets. To think there is no correlation between the overwhelming negativity, very few positive comments and a Survey that had over five figures in respondents isn't clear cut evidence that fans aren't for it is truly baffling. Is that actually what you think, that there is no evidence fans are against this? 
I don't think it is at all. Fans are a clubs main stakeholder, if a club has strong evidence of a very unpopular proposal that fans do not want and makes a decision without consulting fans, that for me and others would be very hard to take.
I think fans need to make a stance on this (if evidence exists the club will vote in favor without consulting us). I'm surprised you don't agree with club fans standing up for what they believe in. Football is a game, the fans are of the utmost importance. There's no justification not to consult them.
Again let me stress, I fully believe St Mirren will consult, or will vote against based on overwhelming evidence that this is against most fans wishes. 

You should probably have read all of my post and digested it and understood it before replying to it.

What did I miss? you don't believe in a big fan survey and you feel fans are throwing their toys out the plan for not wanting bribery and more Old Firm Pandering to happen in our league set-up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

I think this should be approached from a common sense point of view. They majority of fans are against this. Several surveys on social media in last couple days, a massive fan survey published last year, social media and forum comments. I don't think anyone genuinely thinks there's more for and this is likely more a Devils Advocate kind of post. That's why I would be fine with them rejecting it. What's the old expression? 'I don't need a weather man to tell me when it's pissing down.' 

If they put it to some sort of fan consultation/ vote and the consensus that fans were in favor of this idea and that was how they voted then fine, I wouldn't like it but it would be the right thing to do. Again common sense should prevail and  we should be able to see that isn't really an issue. In all honesty I can count on one hand the number of non Old Firm fans that have said they're in favor of this. 

I appreciate getting clarity, it's understandable mate but I just feel it's something most fans are on the same side of. 

I don't think that you really answered the question.  I'll try to rephrase.

 

In which of the following situations would you take the actions that you threatened to take: (I think these cover all the eventualities - unless there is no vote whatsoever and therefore the question is moot.)

1. The club voted for the proposal without consulting the fans.

2. The club voted against the proposal without consulting the fans.

3. The club abstained on the proposal without consulting the fans.

4. The club voted for the proposal after consulting the fans and voted in accordance with the fans' wishes.

5. The club voted against the proposal after consulting the fans and voted in accordance with the fans' wishes.

6. The club abstained on the proposal after consulting the fans and voted in accordance with the fans' wishes.

7. The club voted for the proposal after consulting the fans and in voting such were disregarding the fans' wishes.

8. The club voted against the proposal after consulting the fans and in voting such were disregarding the fans' wishes.

9. The club abstained on the proposal after consulting the fans and in voting such were disregarding the fans' wishes.

 

I would also think that most fans (at least of the non-bigot variety) would be against this, so there is no disagreement there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

I don't think that you really answered the question.  I'll try to rephrase.

 

In which of the following situations would you take the actions that you threatened to take: (I think these cover all the eventualities - unless there is no vote whatsoever and therefore the question is moot.)

1. The club voted for the proposal without consulting the fans.

2. The club voted against the proposal without consulting the fans.

3. The club abstained on the proposal without consulting the fans.

4. The club voted for the proposal after consulting the fans and voted in accordance with the fans' wishes.

5. The club voted against the proposal after consulting the fans and voted in accordance with the fans' wishes.

6. The club abstained on the proposal after consulting the fans and voted in accordance with the fans' wishes. 

7. The club voted for the proposal after consulting the fans and in voting such were disregarding the fans' wishes.

8. The club voted against the proposal after consulting the fans and in voting such were disregarding the fans' wishes. 

9. The club abstained on the proposal after consulting the fans and in voting such were disregarding the fans' wishes.

 

I would also think that most fans (at least of the non-bigot variety) would be against this, so there is no disagreement there.

Ones in bold are the ones that would cause me to cancel my SMISA membership. I've not answered 8 because for me it would represent a conflict of interest/ morale dilemma which I would have to take some time over to come to my conclusion.  And as much as you've put it as a hypothetical, my views are it would never come up so it's not a conflict of interest I'll need to address. (similar to others that won't come up granted) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Masses are Asses. 

And that includes Clubs and their Fans. 

If they weren't asses then Sevco FC 2012 and Celtic wouldn't exist in Scottish Football. 

40 Clubs with big balls could still make it happen. 

Too many irrelevant novels getting posted previous to this post. 

GET RID OF THE CNUTS FROM OUR BEAUTIFUL GAME. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, shull said:

The Masses are Asses. 

And that includes Clubs and their Fans. 

If they weren't asses then Sevco FC 2012 and Celtic wouldn't exist in Scottish Football. 

40 Clubs with big balls could still make it happen. 

Too many irrelevant novels getting posted previous to this post. 

GET RID OF THE CNUTS FROM OUR BEAUTIFUL GAME. 

I think the size of balls is governed by FIFA regulations. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Ones in bold are the ones that would cause me to cancel my SMISA membership. I've not answered 8 because for me it would represent a conflict of interest/ morale dilemma which I would have to take some time over to come to my conclusion.  And as much as you've put it as a hypothetical, my views are it would never come up so it's not a conflict of interest I'll need to address. (similar to others that won't come up granted) 

So, in essence, you are:

1. OK with the club not consulting the fans as long as they vote in accordance with your personal opinion.

2. OK with the club consulting the fans and voting in accordance with the majority fan opinion (whatever that may be).

3. Not OK with the club consulting the fans and voting against the majority fan opinion (possibly unless, in doing so, they vote in accordance with your personal opinion - number 8 ).

 

It was really number 8 I was looking for an answer to, ya bugger - get it answered. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What did I miss? you don't believe in a big fan survey and you feel fans are throwing their toys out the plan for not wanting bribery and more Old Firm Pandering to happen in our league set-up?
No, I believe the survey. I just don't think it's necessarily conclusive.
I don't think fans are throwing their toys out the pram- I was referring to you as you were threatening to stop your smisa direct debit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

So, in essence, you are:

1. OK with the club not consulting the fans as long as they vote in accordance with your personal opinion.

2. OK with the club consulting the fans and voting in accordance with the majority fan opinion (whatever that may be).

3. Not OK with the club consulting the fans and voting against the majority fan opinion (possibly unless, in doing so, they vote in accordance with your personal opinion - number 8 ).

 

It was really number 8 I was looking for an answer to, ya bugger - get it answered. :)

Of course it was but it's a non situation, doesn't need answered because it'll never happen. Comes back to the common sense approach. The reason for my feelings towards this is because it's so clear that there is a one sided belief from supporters.  If the subject was a lot more divided and the decision wasn't completely clear to the club, I wouldn't be of this belief because I would fully empathise in the club having a difficult decision to make. 

In this situation, they don't have a difficult decision to make, there is clear fan opinion. Compare it to the new team wanting to come into the SP just because they play at Ibrox. Clearly only one call there as well, ABSOLUTELY NOT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...