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4 minutes ago, zico said:

Is there a link to the accounts anywhere?

How does the deal work where transfer fees go to the old BoD?

I never quite understood how that worked or even how it was possible.

The transfer fees didnt go to the old board as such, but if the club received unbudgeted income i.e. A transfer fee above a certain amount then Scott & Smisa agreed to accelerate their share purchase payments to the old board(selling consortium) although on the Kyle McAllister sale the old board agreed to waive that right.

so the transfer money should always have stayed with the club, it was/is Scott & Smisa who owed/owe the selling consortium not SMFC. Its important to make that point.

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14 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

So referencing someone else's post is Attacking them..? Gies piece... because if you continue that thought process you have attacked me with every response, and every poster, even if they only reference but dont quote a post are equally attacking other posters. You can see how bizarre your thinking looks in the cold light of day!

again you decice to ignore the club took in somewhere in the region of £400-£500k in transfers(forgot whatever the Naismith fee was)  and still only ended up with £15k, asopposed to £30k the year before. Cant think why you would ignore that, its all in the accounts. Unless you believe they are as you say "repeating inaccuracies"

i cant remember if you have actually asked me a question here? But if you post i will answer, not ignore, or deflect

Although I'm loathe to respond to your attention seeking, sometimes it's worth making some simple observations.

Wages and salaries rose by £159,991. Turnover rose by £142,807. Profit fell by £15,000.

£142,807 - £159,991 = -£17,804 which is pretty close to the amount of fall in profit.

I'm aware this is an overly simple way of looking at things, but some people need an overly simple explanation. There are far more variances in the figures one way and the other, but all you need to know is that we earned more money and spent it wisely, while staying firmly in profit.

Well done the board, as well as the manager and players.

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29 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

So referencing someone else's post is Attacking them..? Gies piece... because if you continue that thought process you have attacked me with every response, and every poster, even if they only reference but dont quote a post are equally attacking other posters. You can see how bizarre your thinking looks in the cold light of day!

again you decice to ignore the club took in somewhere in the region of £400-£500k in transfers(forgot whatever the Naismith fee was)  and still only ended up with £15k, asopposed to £30k the year before. Cant think why you would ignore that, its all in the accounts. Unless you believe they are as you say "repeating inaccuracies"

i cant remember if you have actually asked me a question here? But if you post i will answer, not ignore, or deflect

No but saying its evidence of putting pressure on the BoD to set a loss making budget is.

For the third and final time Ill say a small profit is still a profit, not a loss.  You provide no evidence of us being likely to make a loss this season. Why - because there is none  outside of your lurid fantasies.

If it turns out we make a loss this season then I’ll come back and apologise, until then there’s nothing more to say.

PS - I challenge you to the same sorta promise I made in the last sentence.

*********************

All of this to defend an opening post that was "stark raving bonkers"! :1eye

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46 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

No but saying its evidence of putting pressure on the BoD to set a loss making budget is.

For the third and final time Ill say a small profit is still a profit, not a loss.  You provide no evidence of us being likely to make a loss this season. Why - because there is none  outside of your lurid fantasies.

If it turns out we make a loss this season then I’ll come back and apologise, until then there’s nothing more to say.

PS - I challenge you to the same sorta promise I made in the last sentence.

*********************

All of this to defend an opening post that was "stark raving bonkers"! :1eye

Where in any of my posts did i say we would set a loss making budget, or indeed state categorically that we would make a loss..?

I didn't, you have created those statements. I said, and am happy to repeat 'there but for the grace of god' ... there's not even an 'L' in the sentence. I accept your challenge to apologise for something i havent said.... and you have the cheek to call me bonkers..lol

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2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

So not always then Scott..? Lol

just the times when we didnt...

2 crazy years out of about the last 40 not a bad strike rate considering the financial probity, or otherwise, of a lot of our competitors.  Not having someone underwriting unsustainable losses is a bonus for our club.

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5 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Selective as in we had a history of living within in our means up until we almost disappeared off the face of the planet!

it is amusing watching grown men quote/make up names to call, the last time they probably did that was in short trousers, so i suppose the theory on age regression holds some sway?

it is good of you to highlight the halving of profit in the last club accounts compared to the previous year and regime's accounts, that achieved despite the transfers of McAllister and Mallan...! And with increased management and playing staff wages this year, and next season in the Premiership, sensible observers need to keep a watchful eye on our investment.

edit: just read Sweepers post, expectations have already risen, how will the board respond having already pushed the boat out to get thus far?

Managing and meeting expectations is part of business/life.. and we all have them, just different ones.

From early on in this season and by the time we finished the first quarter, I was confident that we could (not certain but believed it to be a very real possibility) win the league and be back in the place I believe St. Mirren should be - the Premiership.. I was under no illusion that whatever team we had to win this league would need improving for the next challenge...every team needs to do this or as Brechin showed, it is a crap season before relegation once more.

The Board invested extra money I think in the January Transfer window to support their believe that we really could go up.. They could have said, let's be frugal and save the money for a rainy day, but I don't think they made any bad decisions - it has been invested wisely. OK so we have a wee bit less in reserve, but the alternative might not have been wise.. I.e. If we kept back the money and stuck with the weaker squad - it might have still worked out, but on the other hand, it might not have and they would be getting pelters for not improving the squad in January. (Pretty much everybody in our division speculated during the January Transfer window - so that tells you something? The Board pushed the boat out a bit, but not too much - not at all was not an option.) Utd have really pushed the boat out, and it doesn't look to have paid off - but it might in the play-offs

I don't expect anyone thinks that it is unreasonable to expect that we will strengthen, within our means, at every opportunity... Football is a cut throat business -  get rid of the guy who is well paid and will tail off, if there is a really good and cheaper option available - Or one who might be sold on to help the business run well in future etc.

Running bigger profits is not necessarily great management (more money goes to the taxman) for teams like St. Mirren.. under investing, if it results in doing worse on the park more than offsets have tens of thousands of money to spare in our yearly account... but any profit is of course better than a deficit - that is where the Ton's of this world are putting their futures in jeopardy. 

The step up next season, means everything steps up - our budget, our squad etc.. - the guys at the helm at the moment have the Midas touch - let's hope they find a few bargain prospects who turn out to be just ready to shine?

The management at the Ton on the other hand have reaped what they sowed.

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47 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Where in any of my posts did i say we would set a loss making budget, or indeed state categorically that we would make a loss..?

I didn't, you have created those statements. I said, and am happy to repeat 'there but for the grace of god' ... there's not even an 'L' in the sentence. I accept your challenge to apologise for something i havent said.... and you have the cheek to call me bonkers..lol

Semantics. As I'll show below you've  certainly suggested we might set a loss making budget and the fact that you've had to qualify your latest post with the word "categorically" means you know full well what you've said. 

*******************

In response to the news that Cowdenbeath were resorting to crowdfunding to raise money you said

Quote

There but for the grace of god...

before celebrating what may or may not happen to the Ton, lets see how our finances sit after a full season in the Premiership. 

The last two times we've made a profit!

followed by 

Quote

And clubs still overspend the more they worry they are going to lose out. Lets see how we handle all the aspects of being back up there.

what does overspend mean if not making a loss? 

and 

Quote

expectation levels will rise significantly, fans will call for,spending, signings etc, etc and the character of those leading the club will be tested. You can keep your head in the sand, or as you suggest check your history to see who has bitten off more than they can chew.

Sevco, Hearts, Killie, Dundee, Dundee Utd, Motherwell, Hamilton, ICT, and you could argue Aberdeen, Hibs and County if uncle Roy decides to do a Milesom. Aye them problems arent really there, i mean they only happen at other clubs.

I'd say this is a direct suggestion it might happen with Saints

then there's

Quote

 

edit: just read Sweepers post, expectations have already risen, how will the board respond having already pushed the boat out to get thus far?

The amount of prevarication just grows and grows and all of this to defend an opening post that was "stark raving bonkers"! :1eye

Like I said come December and the Accounts being published well find out who was closer to the mark.

 

Edited by Bud the Baker
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10 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Semantics. As I'll show below you've  certainly suggested we might set a loss making budget and the fact that you've had to qualify your latest post wit the word "categorically" means you know full well what you've said. 

*******************

In response to the news that Cowdenbeath were resorting to crowdfunding to raise money you said

The last two times we've made a profit!

followed by 

what does overspend mean if not making a loss? 

and 

I'd say this is a direct suggestion it might happen with Saints

then there's

The amount of prevarication just grows and grows and all of this to defend an opening post that was "stark raving bonkers"! :1eye

Like I said come December and the Accounts being published well find out who was closer to the mark.

 

Nope its not semantic, you are just plain wrong and creating Fake News. There is not one suggestion we would make a loss, but a call to not count our chickens. I get it you dont want to concede that, and it certainly is amusing to see you multi quote to destroy your own Fake News.

this years accounts will be interesting given the Morgan £300k takes us around £1million of unbudgeted income this board have seen come in. Now can they swell that mighty £15k, or 50% drop in profit from all that additional revenue..?

a better picture will come in the following years accounts after a full season back in the Premiership.

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Worth pointing out, I think, that the profit before depreciation was £325k.

The net current liabilities the previous year stood at £290k, ie we were in debt of £290k. This year, the net current liabilities stand at virtually zero.

The report & accounts read to me as if, excluding the transfer fees, we broke even, and the transfer fees wiped out the debt.

The depreciation is against assets (ie the ground) which are valued at £9.5m. In reality, the market for second hand football grounds based in Paisley is non existent, to the assets are actually nil. The depreciation seems to be a method which is used to reduce tax liabilities.

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11 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Nope its not semantic, you are just plain wrong and creating Fake News. There is not one suggestion we would make a loss, but a call to not count our chickens. I get it you dont want to concede that, and it certainly is amusing to see you multi quote to destroy your own Fake News.

this years accounts will be interesting given the Morgan £300k takes us around £1million of unbudgeted income this board have seen come in. Now can they swell that mighty £15k, or 50% drop in profit from all that additional revenue..?

a better picture will come in the following years accounts after a full season back in the Premiership.

I'll keep it simple if they're fake news then give me the alternative explanations, how about this one

 

Quote

what does overspend mean if not making a loss? 

 

 

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On 19/03/2018 at 2:04 PM, DougJamie said:

Crowds at Capplielow have plummeted this year, down 15% year on year, since 2005.

This seems unlikely. Average attendance this season is 2,100 after 13 games, according to fitbastats.com.

A 15% year-on-year reduction since 2005 would mean they were averaging nearly 15k back in '05. The fitbastats website shows their average attendance for 04/05 was actually just under 2,700.

Perhaps you meant that their attendance this season is down 15% on the 05 season? If so, why pick that season as a benchmark? You could compare with 12/13 when they also played in this division, and their average attendance was...2,100, same as it is now.

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18 minutes ago, freddy said:

This seems unlikely. Average attendance this season is 2,100 after 13 games, according to fitbastats.com.

A 15% year-on-year reduction since 2005 would mean they were averaging nearly 15k back in '05. The fitbastats website shows their average attendance for 04/05 was actually just under 2,700.

Perhaps you meant that their attendance this season is down 15% on the 05 season? If so, why pick that season as a benchmark? You could compare with 12/13 when they also played in this division, and their average attendance was...2,100, same as it is now.

Its my thread and I can do what I want !!!:D

Kiddin, reason I picked 2005, is because that when they had  2500 season ticket holders, however now that has dropped to under 1000. I quoted the 15% figure not realising we had a mathematical genius in our myths . I am quoting . My mate is from a very well known Morton background.

Fact is Morton are losing fans. As for the rest of your stats , who am I to argue  

 

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Having had a quick read of this I can see the classic mistake. Profit ids being confused with cash flow. Depreciation on the ground a and Ralston is not a cash flow, it's an accounting concept. The ground is bought and paid for.. Currently the only cost is maintenance and improvements. There are, as yet no major repairs. Our greatest cost are wages (I presume, probably about 60/ 70% of costs). We'll just need to wait and see how things pan as out at the end of the year. At this point in time I wouldn't be too worried, next season though?

Back on topic, we are in better financial state than Morton. To get to where we are has been painful. Let's enjoy it now and worry. About the future later. The last board was overly pessimistic prospects. If you plan for the worst, guess what will happen? I don't see that under Gordon Scott and fan ownership. Let's have a happier, brighter future and try to enjoy the run win to the end of the season and worry Morton later ( although would be nice if they came up too _ a guaranteed 12 points)

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5 minutes ago, charlie said:

Having had a quick read of this I can see the classic mistake. Profit ids being confused with cash flow. Depreciation on the ground a and Ralston is not a cash flow, it's an accounting concept. The ground is bought and paid for.. Currently the only cost is maintenance and improvements. There are, as yet no major repairs. Our greatest cost are wages (I presume, probably about 60/ 70% of costs). We'll just need to wait and see how things pan as out at the end of the year. At this point in time I wouldn't be too worried, next season though?

Back on topic, we are in better financial state than Morton. To get to where we are has been painful. Let's enjoy it now and worry. About the future later. The last board was overly pessimistic prospects. If you plan for the worst, guess what will happen? I don't see that under Gordon Scott and fan ownership. Let's have a happier, brighter future and try to enjoy the run win to the end of the season and worry Morton later ( although would be nice if they came up too _ a guaranteed 12 points)

This season....................2 points from 9........................do you mean THEY would get 12 points? :lol:

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3 hours ago, charlie said:

Having had a quick read of this I can see the classic mistake. Profit ids being confused with cash flow. Depreciation on the ground a and Ralston is not a cash flow, it's an accounting concept. The ground is bought and paid for.. Currently the only cost is maintenance and improvements. There are, as yet no major repairs. Our greatest cost are wages (I presume, probably about 60/ 70% of costs). We'll just need to wait and see how things pan as out at the end of the year. At this point in time I wouldn't be too worried, next season though?

Back on topic, we are in better financial state than Morton. To get to where we are has been painful. Let's enjoy it now and worry. About the future later. The last board was overly pessimistic prospects. If you plan for the worst, guess what will happen? I don't see that under Gordon Scott and fan ownership. Let's have a happier, brighter future and try to enjoy the run win to the end of the season and worry Morton later ( although would be nice if they came up too _ a guaranteed 12 points)

Didn't want to get bogged down in accounting jargon - simpler to keep it simple for Lord Pitiful ya know... :wink:

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19 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Nope its not semantic, you are just plain wrong and creating Fake News. There is not one suggestion we would make a loss, but a call to not count our chickens. I get it you dont want to concede that, and it certainly is amusing to see you multi quote to destroy your own Fake News.

this years accounts will be interesting given the Morgan £300k takes us around £1million of unbudgeted income this board have seen come in. Now can they swell that mighty £15k, or 50% drop in profit from all that additional revenue..?

a better picture will come in the following years accounts after a full season back in the Premiership.

They got more income in, they paid out in wages to keep us up. Take a look at the accounts - there were a lot of differences in figures from last year if you took the time to look, rather than speculate wildly on here using your incredibly limited knowledge. 

 

Would you rather we made a big profit and paid a load of tax on it, and that we were struggling on the  pitch? That would give you another angle to come from with your constant whining...

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4 hours ago, charlie said:

Having had a quick read of this I can see the classic mistake. Profit ids being confused with cash flow. Depreciation on the ground a and Ralston is not a cash flow, it's an accounting concept. The ground is bought and paid for..

Is that Ralston or Greenhill Road. :unsure:

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31 minutes ago, charlie said:

I was just thinking of Greenhill Road. I may be wrong but I think Ralston is a long lease. I think it has had issues but these are addressed and the cash outflow is significantly less than Greenhill Road requires. But I would need to see the numbers to be certain.

Ralston needed £30-40k spent on just the buildings, the 3g surface needs replacing, guess thats another biggie? GHR has had £15k spent on the USH with an advisory that it needs further work v.soon. Add to that the aspiration to build office/retail units into the corners and associated maintenance costs, theres a lot that needs or is planned to do.

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18 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Ralston needed £30-40k spent on just the buildings, the 3g surface needs replacing, guess thats another biggie? GHR has had £15k spent on the USH with an advisory that it needs further work v.soon. Add to that the aspiration to build office/retail units into the corners and associated maintenance costs, theres a lot that needs or is planned to do.

OK LPM as you have managed to twist this thread into Saints Debt or Impending darkness,  stop being such a negative prat.

Ralston and Greenhill are fast approaching 10 years old, its what happens to building and pitches and its called maintenance.....

Ok I am going to try this once, then give up on you, but try looking at what happens to next seasons accounts and the season after. Our crowds are 12% up, we have just renewed with SKYVIEW, we have 300k for Lewis and potentially £1m from McGinn, who will move in summer. We have then the Premiership teams like Hibs, OF, Hearts and Killie bringing at least 1000 to 2000 fans .

Our monies from BT and SKY will increase and we will get far more coverage,  our season ticket sales will increase and no doubt our merchandise.................. All meaning that promotion will be good for us, Christ even if we did get relegated we get £1m . We have a great BOD, a great manager and some really good players and obviously great coaching staff .............

 

All probably a bit to much good news for you there- no doubt u will find the negatives........ In short, start another one of ur neg threads and get off this one

Edited by DougJamie
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15 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

OK LPM as you have managed to twist this thread into Saints Debt or Impending darkness,  stop being such a negative prat.

Ralston and Greenhill are fast approaching 10 years old, its what happens to building and pitches and its called maintenance.....

Ok I am going to try this once, then give up on you, but try looking at what happens to next seasons accounts and the season after. Our crowds are 12% up, we have just renewed with SKYVIEW, we have 300k for Lewis and potentially £1m from McGinn, who will move in summer. We have then the Premiership teams like Hibs, OF, Hearts and Killie bringing at least 1000 to 2000 fans .

Our monies from BT and SKY will increase and we will get far more coverage,  our season ticket sales will increase and no doubt our merchandise.................. All meaning that promotion will be good for us, Christ even if we did get relegated we get £1m . We have a great BOD, a great manager and some really good players and obviously great coaching staff .............

 

All probably a bit to much good news for you there- no doubt u will find the negatives........ In short, start another one of ur neg threads and get off this one

Wtf are you on about?

i was responding to a poster who wanted to know what costs have/will/may arise at each location. At what has your post got to do with Morton's debt???

 

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7 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Wtf are you on about?

i was responding to a poster who wanted to know what costs have/will/may arise at each location. At what has your post got to do with Morton's debt???

 

Its trying to get you back on track. Maybe start a thread that says Saints debt or SKYVIEW the new Sevco- what ever floats your boat 

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