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saintnextlifetime

What are your rights. .

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I was reading something the other day regarding a case the DWP won in the appeals court that will affect claimants Human Rights , unfortunately I just skimmed through the article and can't remember any of it.It had to do with disabilities, that bit I remember.

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11 hours ago, linwood buddie said:

I was reading something the other day regarding a case the DWP won in the appeals court that will affect claimants Human Rights , unfortunately I just skimmed through the article and can't remember any of it.It had to do with disabilities, that bit I remember.

I used to work with a guy years ago called Davey , who would wait til we were in a meeting with management and then say something like , " That is a violation of my basic human rights " . The manager would just go quiet and I thought that Davey had quoted some European thing . . 

It was only recently that I found out that it actually dates back to 1948 when the Human Rights charter was declared at the UN and signed up to by the UK.  Article 29 is interesting as it actually makes it everyone's responsibility to tell others of their rights. .

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More than 70,000 children, including nearly 2,000 of primary-school age, were prescribed antidepressants in England last year.

The pills were handed out in large numbers despite warnings that they may harm developing brains for little benefit.

 

Antidepressants rarely work in children, according to experts, with one saying that doctors were “medicalising adolescence”.

 

NHS figures released to The Times show that one in six adults in England – 7.3m – used antidepressants last year – a rise of almost half a million in three years.

 

And as the number of prescriptions is rising, after more than doubling in a decade, antidepressants are increasingly becoming a long-term support among the population.

Some 1,844 children aged under 10 are taking the drugs, the figures show.

And more than half a million people aged 18-24 were given antidepressants last year, 11 per cent of the age group.

But the over-60s are twice as likely as those in their twenties to be on the drugs.

There are also big regional variations, with places such as Blackpool and Great Yarmouth showing high usage – one in five people – whereas in London it is fewer than one in 10.

Mental-health campaigners say access to other treatments, such as “talking therapies”, should be made more widely and easily available as a first resort.

 

Andrea Cipriani, a psychiatrist at Oxford University, told the paper: “These are very, very high figures.

“People are prescribing antidepressants to those who don’t really need them, who have low mood.

“It’s important people are aware that antidepressants aren’t a quick fix.”

He added: “We should be careful of prescribing antidepressants to the developing brain. We don’t know the long-term consequences.”

In 2016 a review by Dr Cipriani found most antidepressants did not help children and teenagers with serious mental-health problems and some could even be unsafe.

The review of evidence from 34 trials found that of 14 such drugs, only one, Prozac, was better than a placebo at treating young people with major depression.

Another drug, venlafaxine, was associated with an increased risk of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts.

But his study concluded that the real effectiveness and safety of antidepressants for children and teenagers was unclear because of the poor design and selective reporting of trials, mostly funded by drug companies.

 

Dr Cipriani said that “nowadays the risk is medicalising adolescence” with drugs.

A high number were prescribed in south Lincolnshire, the figures showed. “It’s difficult to justify. There must be something wrong,” he said.

The figures were obtained under freedom of information laws from the NHS business services authority.

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
Edited by saintnextlifetime

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On 7/23/2018 at 5:37 PM, saintnextlifetime said:

More than 70,000 children, including nearly 2,000 of primary-school age, were prescribed antidepressants in England last year.

The pills were handed out in large numbers despite warnings that they may harm developing brains for little benefit.

 

Antidepressants rarely work in children, according to experts, with one saying that doctors were “medicalising adolescence”.

 

NHS figures released to The Times show that one in six adults in England – 7.3m – used antidepressants last year – a rise of almost half a million in three years.

 

And as the number of prescriptions is rising, after more than doubling in a decade, antidepressants are increasingly becoming a long-term support among the population.

Some 1,844 children aged under 10 are taking the drugs, the figures show.

And more than half a million people aged 18-24 were given antidepressants last year, 11 per cent of the age group.

But the over-60s are twice as likely as those in their twenties to be on the drugs.

There are also big regional variations, with places such as Blackpool and Great Yarmouth showing high usage – one in five people – whereas in London it is fewer than one in 10.

Mental-health campaigners say access to other treatments, such as “talking therapies”, should be made more widely and easily available as a first resort.

 

Andrea Cipriani, a psychiatrist at Oxford University, told the paper: “These are very, very high figures.

“People are prescribing antidepressants to those who don’t really need them, who have low mood.

“It’s important people are aware that antidepressants aren’t a quick fix.”

He added: “We should be careful of prescribing antidepressants to the developing brain. We don’t know the long-term consequences.”

In 2016 a review by Dr Cipriani found most antidepressants did not help children and teenagers with serious mental-health problems and some could even be unsafe.

The review of evidence from 34 trials found that of 14 such drugs, only one, Prozac, was better than a placebo at treating young people with major depression.

Another drug, venlafaxine, was associated with an increased risk of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts.

But his study concluded that the real effectiveness and safety of antidepressants for children and teenagers was unclear because of the poor design and selective reporting of trials, mostly funded by drug companies.

 

Dr Cipriani said that “nowadays the risk is medicalising adolescence” with drugs.

A high number were prescribed in south Lincolnshire, the figures showed. “It’s difficult to justify. There must be something wrong,” he said.

The figures were obtained under freedom of information laws from the NHS business services authority.

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

Please bear in mind that a large proportion of anti-depressant use is related to pain relief and other conditions not directly related to mental illness.

I am confident that there might be some unwarranted use, however I am more confident that most doctors are being careful and prescribing them as the best available treatment

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5 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

Please bear in mind that a large proportion of anti-depressant use is related to pain relief and other conditions not directly related to mental illness.

I am confident that there might be some unwarranted use, however I am more confident that most doctors are being careful and prescribing them as the best available treatment

Really ? The NHS statistics would indicate otherwise , even a doctor is alarmed about the harm being done . .

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Sources say

experts warn

evidence suggests

there are contraindications to every drug but please bear in mind they are created to do good.

I have a family member who has no mental health issues and their life of pain has been turned around since they were prescribed anti depressants for the pain and I know many others in the same boat 

statistics don’t even tell half of any story

we also shouldn’t forget that this is a far more stressful world and greatest need plays a part alongside better diagnosis

 

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Indeed there are contraindications to every drug and please bear in mind they are not created for the  good if individuals then become dependent on them . The only good there is for the large pharma , that we are now all paying for.

I had a family member who also was prescribed anti-depressants , even though this was not explained at the time . They did go onto have mental health issues but at that point the individual had become dependent on them .

You are right , statistics don't tell half the story .

This is a far more stressful world compared to what ? Perhaps it is just too easy to go along to a doctor and get put on drugs that are addictive /create a dependancy. .

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On 8/2/2018 at 10:45 AM, saintnextlifetime said:

Indeed there are contraindications to every drug and please bear in mind they are not created for the  good if individuals then become dependent on them . The only good there is for the large pharma , that we are now all paying for.

I had a family member who also was prescribed anti-depressants , even though this was not explained at the time . They did go onto have mental health issues but at that point the individual had become dependent on them .

You are right , statistics don't tell half the story .

This is a far more stressful world compared to what ? Perhaps it is just too easy to go along to a doctor and get put on drugs that are addictive /create a dependancy. .

It's a more stressful world than the one we used to live in.  Noise, polution, peer pressure, media pressure, financial uncertainty, poor prospects, lack of certainty in housing-the list goes on.

There is no other reason to create drugs than to do good, yes they are also capable of harm but many people who wouldn't have been treated before get benefit from taking their medication.

Doctors want to help and sometimes are too easy to persuade, but that is as much down to the patient who needs to take responsibility for their own cure.

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9 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

It's a more stressful world than the one we used to live in.  Noise, polution, peer pressure, media pressure, financial uncertainty, poor prospects, lack of certainty in housing-the list goes on.

There is no other reason to create drugs than to do good, yes they are also capable of harm but many people who wouldn't have been treated before get benefit from taking their medication.

Doctors want to help and sometimes are too easy to persuade, but that is as much down to the patient who needs to take responsibility for their own cure.

I recall years ago reading an article about the Battle of Britain . It began by mentioning the duress that people were under on the home front , getting bombed by the Luftwaffe , having to live in make shift accomodation , working long hours as part of the war effort , having the threat of imminent invasion hanging over them , feeding a family on rations , etc .  It went on to say that despite all the genuine hardship and duress that people were under , no one went insane , people just got on with it . Also this was a time when there were no anti-depressants despite it being grim in many ways , people survived .  .

So really none of the things on your list of "stress" come close to any of the above , though l would say that all the things you list have been around for a long time apart from the one , "media pressure" because  , for the life of me l have no idea what that is .

So the long and the short of is that , l don't see how people are more "stressed" now . There has always been stress  , l grew up in a time when people were genuinely concerned about nuclear armageddon .  In the end you are right about the patient being responsible but how often does the doctor explain the side effects or the likelihood of dependencey . .

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1 hour ago, saintnextlifetime said:

I concur,  however it was you that began the comparisons ,  wasn't it? 

 

Really?   i compared the conditions peoples have lived.  You compared one person's misery to another's and dismissed the former.

 

Your point seemed to be that previous generations had to shut up and deal with their troubles on their own and that people today should do the same.  So let's get the kids back up the chimneys and down the pits again

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On 7/23/2018 at 5:37 PM, saintnextlifetime said:

More than 70,000 children, including nearly 2,000 of primary-school age, were prescribed antidepressants in England last year.

The pills were handed out in large numbers despite warnings that they may harm developing brains for little benefit. 

The report actually says

 

Antidepressants rarely work in children, according to experts, with one saying that doctors were “medicalising adolescence”.

 

NHS figures released to The Times show that one in six adults in England – 7.3m – used antidepressants last year – a rise of almost half a million in three years.

 

And as the number of prescriptions is rising, after more than doubling in a decade, antidepressants are increasingly becoming a long-term support among the population.

Some 1,844 children aged under 10 are taking the drugs, the figures show.

And more than half a million people aged 18-24 were given antidepressants last year, 11 per cent of the age group.

But the over-60s are twice as likely as those in their twenties to be on the drugs.

There are also big regional variations, with places such as Blackpool and Great Yarmouth showing high usage – one in five people – whereas in London it is fewer than one in 10.

Mental-health campaigners say access to other treatments, such as “talking therapies”, should be made more widely and easily available as a first resort.

 

Andrea Cipriani, a psychiatrist at Oxford University, told the paper: “These are very, very high figures.

“People are prescribing antidepressants to those who don’t really need them, who have low mood.

“It’s important people are aware that antidepressants aren’t a quick fix.”

He added: “We should be careful of prescribing antidepressants to the developing brain. We don’t know the long-term consequences.”

In 2016 a review by Dr Cipriani found most antidepressants did not help children and teenagers with serious mental-health problems and some could even be unsafe.

The review of evidence from 34 trials found that of 14 such drugs, only one, Prozac, was better than a placebo at treating young people with major depression.

Another drug, venlafaxine, was associated with an increased risk of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts.

But his study concluded that the real effectiveness and safety of antidepressants for children and teenagers was unclear because of the poor design and selective reporting of trials, mostly funded by drug companies.

 

Dr Cipriani said that “nowadays the risk is medicalising adolescence” with drugs.

A high number were prescribed in south Lincolnshire, the figures showed. “It’s difficult to justify. There must be something wrong,” he said.

The figures were obtained under freedom of information laws from the NHS business services authority.

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

The newspaper article selectively quotes the psychiatrist's report and changes the context of some of the quotes.  It's like all journalism, designed to get people worrying.  Dr Cirpriani makes some great points, including the one that states that the studies he reviewed were often flawed.  The point he seems to be making is that a more objective study is required, but that won't sell newspapers, will it.

Edited by beyond our ken

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On 8/8/2018 at 3:51 PM, beyond our ken said:

Really?   i compared the conditions peoples have lived.  You compared one person's misery to another's and dismissed the former.

 

Your point seemed to be that previous generations had to shut up and deal with their troubles on their own and that people today should do the same.  So let's get the kids back up the chimneys and down the pits again

What you said was this : It's a more stressful world than the one we used to live in.  Noise, polution, peer pressure, media pressure, financial uncertainty, poor prospects, lack of certainty in housing-the list goes on.

Which is simply an unfounded statement , I then pointed out that during a time of national duress people survived not because they were told to "shut up and get on with it" but because they were working toward a common goal . You did not compare conditions people have lived you only made the sweeping statement above. .

 

I don't believe kids went down mines or up chimmeny's in the 40's , so another sweeping statement from you . .

 

Maybe they should do an objective study to see if what is in the newspapers helps big pharma' sell it's drugs . .maybe that is the so called "media pressure" you have yet to define. .

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35 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said:

What you said was this : It's a more stressful world than the one we used to live in.  Noise, polution, peer pressure, media pressure, financial uncertainty, poor prospects, lack of certainty in housing-the list goes on.

Which is simply an unfounded statement , I then pointed out that during a time of national duress people survived not because they were told to "shut up and get on with it" but because they were working toward a common goal . You did not compare conditions people have lived you only made the sweeping statement above. .

 

I don't believe kids went down mines or up chimmeny's in the 40's , so another sweeping statement from you . .

 

Maybe they should do an objective study to see if what is in the newspapers helps big pharma' sell it's drugs . .maybe that is the so called "media pressure" you have yet to define. .

If you look at what is happening with children nowadays compared to when we were kids, the problem of depression becomes crystal clear as far as I can tell.

You will probably remember that we were left alone to get on with our education.

That is not true of vast swathes of kids who are routinely hot-housed and put under insane amounts of pressure by parents and teachers to get to University. Kids are being promised the Earth but are being sold a pup. Too many parents are trying to revive their own failed dreams through their children. Too many teachers are pressuring kids to boost their careers by getting more and more passes at exam time. Too many politicians are glued to useless PISA (?) statistics and see only numbers and not the human beings behind them.

Everything is about university but the harsh truth is that only about 20% of school leavers actually need to go there. There is an over focus on STEM subjects. That's great for me. I read advanced maths and physics books/papers in bed but not everyone shares my passion and those who don't, feel they are being sidelined as less important as others. What about those who want to become tradespeople or authors or film makers or artists, classical musicians, screen writers, or perhaps run their own business? During school years, these types of profession are not being talked about to the same extent as maths and science. An "everybody wins a prize" politically correct mentality in younger years leaves these people hopelessly ill-equipped to deal with the real world when it kicks them up the arse in their twenties. I reckon the school years just destroy the lives of young people.

Although I am pretty cynical about the motives of human beings, I do believe the majority of adults genuinely have their hearts in the right place but their brains are simply not engaged enough. People in charge need to take a step back and THINK about the catastrophic consequences of their actions.

I know from talking to young people that peer pressure surrounding political correctness is adding stress levels which we didn't have to worry about as kids. A lot of young people are shit scared to open their mouths and offer an opinion for fear of some twat calling them sexist, racist or whatever and ostracising them from society. They can't use the word "coloured" anymore because apparentlysome twat has arbitrarily decided that it's racist (no reason given as to why though) and are told to say "black" even if the kid they are referring to is actually brown skinned. Then they get hammered again because apparently someone has decided "black" is also racist and they should now use the phrase "African American" or such like, even if the person had never visited the place. It's a f**king nightmare. As adults we can tell people who try to control us in this way to f**k right off but young kids are terrified of being Unfriended by everyone they know.

And that leads to my final point. Social media such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc. The great f**king evils of our time. Kids are growing up surrounded by ridiculous expectations in terms of what they should look, like and what lives they should lead based on people deliberately posting only the polished highlights of their lives. Free porn also feeds them with utterly manufactured expectations of what a normal sex life is like.

Young people are incredibly vulnerable and impressionable. All of these pressures have been created and perpetuated by adults. We caused this. And in our arrogance and self absorption, we fail to understand the effect it has on the next generation.

The fabulous jobs they were promised if they went to University don't exist in sufficient numbers and so after years of study and massive debt, they are struggling to get jobs which didn't need a degree in the first place. The two generations before them have bought up all the housing stock, placing 5 million houses in Buy To Let. This causes an artificial house price bubble and also a rent bubble as these kids have no option but to rent for life from the same unscruplous f**kers who have greedily gobbled up the houses they should have bought. No wonder they hate us.

Now step back and imagine what it must be like to go through all of the above as a 13-18 year old. It's a horrific thought.

I was part of the so-called Generation X. This is Generation f**ked Up and they need help. Know what though? They don't need OUR help. We have done enough damage thank you very much. They'll work things out amongst themselves. We should back the hell off and leave them to it.

That is my impression of what is causing the problem from years of talking to kids themselves at the University and listening to what they tell me.

Edited by oaksoft

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I was born in 1942 and have no idea what my generation is called.

I agree that youngsters nowadays are living in an era in which I would hate to have been brought up. There has been, for a good number of years, an overemphasis on university education, a mushrooming of "universities" and a huge increase in the number of honours degrees awarded, which means that university degrees have been devalued.  I did not have to worry about social media and mobile telephones  were years in the future. Face to face conversation was the regular means of communication and instant news was not available. We did not have the distraction of instant messaging and, as I see it, there are very few things will not wait for a little time.

Youngsters, and not only youngsters, seem to spend every minute of the day, some of the night, within easy reach of their mobile phone. I, personally could not live like that and I feel sorry foor people who could not live without their mobile phones.

PS I am not exactly a dinosaur, as I do have a smart phone. It is, however, switched off when I go to bed and rebooted at breakfast time.

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3 hours ago, smcc said:

I was born in 1942 and have no idea what my generation is called.

You intersect two generations.

You overlap the end of the Silent Generation (not joking) and the beginning of the Baby Boomers.

So, take your pick.

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9 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You intersect two generations.

You overlap the end of the Silent Generation (not joking) and the beginning of the Baby Boomers.

So, take your pick. 

Surely today's youngsters are the Silent Generation as they seem to communicate only via phone messaging?

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