£2 Pot SMISA vote for April ?????

[East Lothian Saint]

1 hour ago, davidg said:

The email says the next 9 quarterly spends + £5k that they have just now. 

 

5 nines are 45 + 5 = 50

I appreciate the e-mail figures add up. The wording on the vote is different though and doesn't clarify where the 10K goes, unless of course there are 5 quarters in a year 

[buddiecat]

1 hour ago, davidg said:

I can’t see any reference to this in the constitution, the £2 monthly pot isn’t even mentioned. 

The constitution does say membership money can be used to achieve the objectives set out. 

Objective 4.3  - “playing a role helping to achieve a successful St Mirren”. 

Made an arse of that one didn't i. It's in the detail of the buy the buds "how it works" section, not the constitution, " Basic membership of SMISA has been set at £12 per month. Of that, £10 is ringfenced for the share purchase, and £2 goes into a pot for members to spend on club-related projects. " The money should only come from the £2 pot as the rest is ringfenced, so it can be saved up for but not taken from ringfenced funds, that's how i read it.

[bazil85]

On 05/04/2018 at 12:23 AM, Graeme Aitken said:

see this wee nugget

Jack has proved, his team doesn't need the astro. They are doing pretty well for not training on  it. So the club are looking to spunk £150K that it doesn't really need to.

Crazy post. Do we not ‘really need’ youth teams? Do we not ‘really need’ facilities to be rented out for income? Also the first team would train on it if it was fit for purpose. 

[bazil85]

On 05/04/2018 at 10:24 PM, cockles1987 said:

I was wondering if this covered it as well. Specifically 8.1.1


ASSET LOCK
8. Restriction on use: Pursuant to regulations made under section 1 of the Co-operatives and
Community Benefit Societies Act 2014:
All of the society's assets are subject to a restriction on their use.
8.1 The society must not use or deal with its assets except-
8.1.1 where the use or dealing is, directly or indirectly, for the purpose that is for
the benefit of the community;

This is exactly why they’re fully covered and a vote by members is sufficient to unlock ring fenced funds. There’s both a direct and indirect community benefit. Direct in that the pitch is used for a lot of Paisley youth players and indirect in that it benefits St Mirren and a strong St Mirren means a stronger community. 

Hope people banging on as if they know everything there is to know about ‘ring-fencing’ sees this and it settles their concerns that this idea isn’t legal. 

[bazil85]

6 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

You do know that the facilities at Ralston can't be rented out if I remember correctly.

It can. Other youth teams outside of St Mirren do use those pitches and local youths also use it to play. Says so on the proposal anyway. 

[BuddieinEK]

Crazy post. Do we not ‘really need’ youth teams? Do we not ‘really need’ facilities to be rented out for income? Also the first team would train on it if it was fit for purpose. 

If the first team train on it too then the kids in the community you value so highly will get less time on it or it will wear out much more quickly from increased useage.
How to you propose saving up for the replacement?

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

If the first team train on it too then the kids in the community you value so highly will get less time on it or it will wear out much more quickly from increased useage.
How to you propose saving up for the replacement?

I’m pretty sure the pitch isn’t used 24/7 I’m sure it would be fine. First team wouldn’t be training on it exclusively. St Mirren generally train during the day and I’m pretty sure most kids have other commitments during the day...

Again as stated in the proposal the new pitch life will extend into fan ownership. When it’s time to replace it, we’ll replace it out of our budget like any other team would have to do and like how st Mirren will do this time if we vote no. Very simple. 

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, cockles1987 said:

The only teams outside of St Mirren that use It, is opponent's of St Mirren.

The local youths in the proposal that use It currently are St Mirren players.

That's my understanding unless you can show me different.
 

I can but just read the proposal yourself. It says other youths, many from the local area. 

[bazil85]

46 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

As I wrote. The current local youths are St Mirren players, likewise the ones in the future referred to in the proposal will have to be St Mirren players or play for an opponent.

IE Glennifer couldn't organise a game with St Peter's to be played on said new pitch.

Direct from the proposal. 

the pitch is used extensively by many, mainly-local, young people each week. This investment provides a degree of community benefit by improving their facilities;

they are not just st Mirren youth players.  many mainly local young people use it  unless all our youth players are from Ralston... 

 

[BuddieinEK]

The Ralston kids who use the community scheme meet at the local primary school for the coaching not at the training ground.

It's part of the lease/conditions. If you don't believe me that's fine.

Just as well.
He believes nobody who dares take a differing viewpoint.

His tenacity is admirable even if it is weriesome rubbish spouted or created to support his point of view.

[faraway saint]

6 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Just as well.
He believes nobody who dares take a differing viewpoint.

His tenacity is admirable even if it is weriesome rubbish spouted or created to support his point of view.

He was the same on the recent Baird debate. 

[TsuMirren]

5 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

The Ralston kids who use the community scheme meet at the local primary school for the coaching not at the training ground.

It's part of the lease/conditions. If you don't believe me that's fine.

Yup, my understanding of the lease is certainly that the club can't hire the Ralston pitches out. So, the community benefit is to the academy kids, the youth setup beyond under 16, the club and potentially the women's team should they ever use it. 

[FTOF]

Hell  indeed hath no fury like an "insert suitable petulantly related noun" spurned..................

[Kombibuddie]

22 hours ago, bazil85 said:

It can. Other youth teams outside of St Mirren do use those pitches and local youths also use it to play. Says so on the proposal anyway. 

so, with the rental income from the 4g pitch, the club should be able to get the pitch repaired/renewed without asking to use SMISA' ring fenced pot.

[bazil85]

21 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

The Ralston kids who use the community scheme meet at the local primary school for the coaching not at the training ground.

It's part of the lease/conditions. If you don't believe me that's fine.

I’m only quoting the proposal. They didn’t just pull the information from thin air, there is a community benefit. 

[bazil85]

21 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

Just as well.
He believes nobody who dares take a differing viewpoint.

His tenacity is admirable even if it is weriesome rubbish spouted or created to support his point of view.

Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint. Some people might not think this is best for st Mirren, fans or the buyout all fine. What I do take issue with is people spouting nonsense that it’s illegal and fans shouldn’t have the right to vote on such issues. 

[bazil85]

21 hours ago, faraway saint said:

He was the same on the recent Baird debate. 

The Baird date is a perfect example of where some fans don’t like other fans to have an opinion... worse, imagine saying anything remotely critical against Lord Bairdy. 

[bazil85]

8 hours ago, Graeme Aitken said:

so, with the rental income from the 4g pitch, the club should be able to get the pitch repaired/renewed without asking to use SMISA' ring fenced pot.

£150k? Aye nae bother haha. You still not grasping that even if this was possibly, any money the club spend on it is money out of the budget for next seasons return to the top flight? 

[bazil85]

8 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

8 hours ago, Graeme Aitken said:

so, with the rental income from the 4g pitch, the club should be able to get the pitch repaired/renewed without asking to use SMISA' ring fenced pot.

I agreed with him regarding the conditions of the spend but somehow he just didn't get the fact that no local kid could just hire the pitch at Ralston or use it free for the community classes.

I do get what you’re saying, if that isn’t the pitch that’s rented then I apologise. I was only stating in the proposal it says there’s a community benefit to local youths. Local youths doesn’t suggest they’re st Mirren youth players because they won’t all be local. 

[BuddieinEK]

I’m only quoting the proposal. They didn’t just pull the information from thin air, there is a community benefit. 

You sidestepped his point beautifully!
He points out a flaw in your failing argument and you simply say it was a quote from a valid source and leave it at that as if it makes itvall ok then.

Answer his point!

[bazil85]

18 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

You sidestepped his point beautifully!
He points out a flaw in your failing argument and you simply say it was a quote from a valid source and leave it at that as if it makes itvall ok then.

Answer his point!

What point haven’t I answered? 

[TsuMirren]

1 hour ago, cockles1987 said:

Just seen this whilst trying to find evidence of the lease.

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=55846

I knew/believed other teams couldn't use it. But had never seen it getting used for community use.

Yes, the recent Camps didn't use Ralston though possibly due to the state of the 4G. That's not offering it for hire though, which I do still believe isn't allowed under condition of the lease. 

[bazil85]

15 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

Just seen this whilst trying to find evidence of the lease.

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=55846

I knew/believed other teams couldn't use it. But had never seen it getting used for community use.

I'd say because other teams use it and they're youngsters in the community that's the link to a community use.

Suppose it depends on your definition of 'hire' if these youth teams are being charged any sort of fees then that's technically a hire. If they're not and St Mirren are letting them use it out of the goodness of their heart, that strengthens the community benefit even more. Win win. 

[TsuMirren]

52 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I'd say because other teams use it and they're youngsters in the community that's the link to a community use.

Suppose it depends on your definition of 'hire' if these youth teams are being charged any sort of fees then that's technically a hire. If they're not and St Mirren are letting them use it out of the goodness of their heart, that strengthens the community benefit even more. Win win. 

He gives evidence of Soccer Camps, you're still going on about other teams. The use highlighted is kids, in isolation, applying for slots on the Camps and paying to be on them. Again, I've already stated that's fine and I'm just highlighting the level of community use. 

[bazil85]

9 minutes ago, TsuMirren said:

He gives evidence of Soccer Camps, you're still going on about other teams. The use highlighted is kids, in isolation, applying for slots on the Camps and paying to be on them. Again, I've already stated that's fine and I'm just highlighting the level of community use. 

I don't think I ever tried to highlight the level, just that there is a community use. My point all along was that the new pitch ticks that box. Simple as it is.