What do you expect of the Chairman and Board

[Bud the Baker]

12 hours ago, StuD said:

Bingo. Clever boy. Those clubs invested in facilities that brought in non match day revenue. St Mirren have a location. 

As I pointed out one of them nearly went out of business following that advice and our location doesn't match the Fakes which even their fans recognize was a windfall.

 

I await another supercilious reply...……………………...  

[zico]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

As I pointed out one of them nearly went out of business following that advice and our location doesn't match the Fakes which even their fans recognize was a windfall.

 

And St. Johnstone's non match day revenue generating facilities were paid for by Asda.

Clubs like Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Dundee funded their "success" by spending vast amounts of money that they didn't have then reneging on that debt. Fir Park and Dens Park also require a lot of money to keep from falling apart.

The club that I think has been similar to us, in terms of not being able to use debt to fund "success" has been Partick Thistle.

[Callum Gilhooley]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

As I pointed out one of them nearly went out of business following that advice and our location doesn't match the Fakes which even their fans recognize was a windfall.

 

I await another supercilious reply...……………………...  

Do do do do do do ....  Super - cilious 

sorry , ill get ma coat .  

Edited May 11, 2018 by Callum Gilhooley

[Bud the Baker]

1 minute ago, zico said:

And St. Johnstone's non match day revenue generating facilities were paid for by Asda.

Clubs like Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Dundee funded their "success" by spending vast amounts of money that they didn't have then reneging on that debt. Fir Park and Dens Park also require a lot of money to keep from falling apart.

The club that I think has been similar to us, in terms of not being able to use debt to fund "success" has been Partick Thistle.

They got lucky with those lottery winners.

[StuD]

14 minutes ago, zico said:

And St. Johnstone's non match day revenue generating facilities were paid for by Asda.

Clubs like Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Dundee funded their "success" by spending vast amounts of money that they didn't have then reneging on that debt. Fir Park and Dens Park also require a lot of money to keep from falling apart.

The club that I think has been similar to us, in terms of not being able to use debt to fund "success" has been Partick Thistle.

St Mirren could have got revenue genarating facilities paid for by Tesco but some dafty thought three tiny pitches in the car park did the job. St Mirren could have used the extra cash SMiSA are wasting on consumables to add revenue generating facilities on that ample land that you said could be developed around the stadium but someone thinks buying footballs and paying for a data analysts and a sports scientist is a better use of cash. St Mirren could be working with sports clubs in the local area setting up buying groups for kit and equipment to cut costs but some think Glenvale are competition to be scared of!

And anyone who criticises the lack of growth within the business is deemed unrelentingly negative whilst those with no ambition are lauded by the support. 

If St Mirren really do want to be a consistent top six club those running it need to generate non match day revenue. 

[Callum Gilhooley]

3 minutes ago, StuD said:

St Mirren could have got revenue genarating facilities paid for by Tesco but some dafty thought three tiny pitches in the car park did the job. St Mirren could have used the extra cash SMiSA are wasting on consumables to add revenue generating facilities on that ample land that you said could be developed around the stadium but someone thinks buying footballs and paying for a data analysts and a sports scientist is a better use of cash. St Mirren could be working with sports clubs in the local area setting up buying groups for kit and equipment to cut costs but some think Glenvale are competition to be scared of!

And anyone who criticises the lack of growth within the business is deemed unrelentingly negative whilst those with no ambition are lauded by the support. 

If St Mirren really do want to be a consistent top six club those running it need to generate non match day revenue. 

Yeah , coz that turned out to be a waste of f**kin cash this season didnt it ! 

[zico]

15 minutes ago, StuD said:

St Mirren could have got revenue genarating facilities paid for by Tesco but some dafty thought three tiny pitches in the car park did the job.

Could they?

How much did Asda's income generating facilities at St. Johnstone cost, how much did the 3 tiny pitches at Greenhill Rd cost and what would have been the cost of alternative income generating facilities at Greenhill Road? And how much extra would this have brought the club?

Indeed, what should those alternative revenue generating facilities have been? A running track?

Relying on SMiSA is an irrelevance and you've ignored the REAL issue - the massive debts that competing club used and reneged on.

Edited May 11, 2018 by zico

[zico]

29 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

They got lucky with those lottery winners.

Yeh, so they did. Forgot about that.

[Bud the Baker]

1 minute ago, zico said:

Yeh, so they did. Forgot about that.

No worries, I forget things myself sometimes. 

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, zico said:

Could they?

How much did Asda's income generating facilities at St. Johnstone cost, how much did the 3 tiny pitches at Greenhill Rd cost and what would have been the cost of alternative income generating facilities at Greenhill Road? And how much extra would this have brought the club?

Indeed, what should those alternative revenue generating facilities have been? A running track?

Relying on SMiSA is an irrelevance and you've ignored the REAL issue - the massive debts that competing club used and reneged on.

A running track is a real money spinner. Me and the other members of the running club using one in Dumfries last night must have generated at least £12.

[zico]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

A running track is a real money spinner. Me and the other members of the running club using one in Dumfries last night must have generated at least £12.

I use the one at Linwood for free. The council must be raking in the cash!

[StuD]

35 minutes ago, zico said:

Could they?

How much did Asda's income generating facilities at St. Johnstone cost, how much did the 3 tiny pitches at Greenhill Rd cost and what would have been the cost of alternative income generating facilities at Greenhill Road? And how much extra would this have brought the club?

Indeed, what should those alternative revenue generating facilities have been? A running track?

Relying on SMiSA is an irrelevance and you've ignored the REAL issue - the massive debts that competing club used and reneged on.

I gave two examples. Neither walked away from debt. St Johnstone had no debt, Kilmarnock went into debt building a hotel and sold their hotel and raised equity by selling shares to restructute their debt - and Kilmanock still own equity in the newco that bought the hotel. Its speculated that the Bank of Scotland wrote off some debt but since there is a confidentiality clause in place no-one knows if debt was written off or replaced by equity in the hotel. 

Both those clubs came from the third teir of Scottish Football whilst St Mirren were regular top six finishers playing regulaly in Europe. 

Motherwell dont ask their fans to buy the club footballs,  to pay staff wages or to fund the relaying of astrograss despite being fan owned. They have a revenue generating social club, a match day bar and offices that are rented out and their local council hasn't donated a training academy for peppercorn rent.

St Mirren enjoyed considerable luck and support from the council that allowed tham to sell off land to a company that would leave the land dormant but which bought it to stop other supermarkets from using it. That luck and good fortune was wasted. 

 

[zico]

23 minutes ago, StuD said:

I gave two examples. Neither walked away from debt. St Johnstone had no debt, Kilmarnock went into debt building a hotel and sold their hotel and raised equity by selling shares to restructute their debt - and Kilmanock still own equity in the newco that bought the hotel. Its speculated that the Bank of Scotland wrote off some debt but since there is a confidentiality clause in place no-one knows if debt was written off or replaced by equity in the hotel. 

Both those clubs came from the third teir of Scottish Football whilst St Mirren were regular top six finishers playing regulaly in Europe. 

Motherwell dont ask their fans to buy the club footballs,  to pay staff wages or to fund the relaying of astrograss despite being fan owned. They have a revenue generating social club, a match day bar and offices that are rented out and their local council hasn't donated a training academy for peppercorn rent.

St Mirren enjoyed considerable luck and support from the council that allowed tham to sell off land to a company that would leave the land dormant but which bought it to stop other supermarkets from using it. That luck and good fortune was wasted. 

 

I didn't say that St. Johnstone walked away from debt but Kilmarnock did. Your first paragraph is therefore both wrong and irrelevant.

With regards to Motherwell, their main route to success was spending other people's money, not repaying it and avoiding relegation by lobbying against the promoted club.

I'd hardly say that St. Mirren 'good fortune' was wasted. The deal saved the club from liquidation, repayed over £3 million in debt, provide a brand new stadium with vastly reduced maintenance costs plus training facilities.

If only the club had had the foresight to include a running track

[Bud the Baker]

41 minutes ago, StuD said:

I gave two examples. Neither walked away from debt. St Johnstone had no debt, Kilmarnock went into debt building a hotel and sold their hotel and raised equity by selling shares to restructute their debt - and Kilmanock still own equity in the newco that bought the hotel. Its speculated that the Bank of Scotland wrote off some debt but since there is a confidentiality clause in place no-one knows if debt was written off or replaced by equity in the hotel. 

Both those clubs came from the third teir of Scottish Football whilst St Mirren were regular top six finishers playing regulaly in Europe. 

Motherwell dont ask their fans to buy the club footballs,  to pay staff wages or to fund the relaying of astrograss despite being fan owned. They have a revenue generating social club, a match day bar and offices that are rented out and their local council hasn't donated a training academy for peppercorn rent.

St Mirren enjoyed considerable luck and support from the council that allowed tham to sell off land to a company that would leave the land dormant but which bought it to stop other supermarkets from using it. That luck and good fortune was wasted. 

 

As ever, an idiosyncratic view of Killie's debt restructuring, their ex-Chairman wrote off £1.8M, the bank, quite clearly, took a hit as well but like you say the specifics are confidential and Killie's stake in the hotel is a staggering 1.96% - keep spinning.

Hospitality is not a guaranteed moneyspinner - only a reluctance by the BoS to face the inevitable bad publicity saved Kilmarnock. I'm no expert but I doubt the banks will be lending substantial sums to diddy Scottish clubs again.

Finally the 80s were a thousand years ago (Celtic & Rangers didn't get shirt sponsorship till 1984!), along with Dundee Utd. we were the best of the diddy clubs until we foolishly threw a lifeline to Motherwell by suspending relegation which would've resulted in them going P/T - we will never be a regular Top 6 team again.

Is there room for improvement at Saints - undoubtedly, but noting you've suggested so far seems likely to be a solution

 

[TediousTom]

On 10/05/2018 at 12:12 PM, St.Ricky said:

TT.

I think it might be worth reading what StuD has had to say. - 1

The club is overall in a good place. That doesn't mean that it couldn't further improve. - 2

My guess would be that the person most impatient for that improvement would be GLS himself.

Reading your post it seems to me that both yourself and StuD have more issues with SMISA than GLS. -3

You might not agree on the approach to those but you each have concerns.

Right then I shall spend a few minutes of my fast running out existence to address each Rikyism in turn.

1)  I have wasted many a minute of my life reading drivel posted on here by Mr Dickson, I shall waste no more.

2)  The club is in a great place, as such people like Dickson have no justification in moaning.  As I say, intelligence above a peanut and all.

3)  I don't care what issues Dickson has with Smisa or anything else for that matter.  I dont actually have much of an issue with Smisa either but I do worry that they will not be able to run the club anything like as well as our Mr Scott.  Thats not a slight on Smisa but a compliment on oor Gordon.  Just for clarity I maintain the viewpoint that the premium Smisa membership is amongst one of the wankiest things I have ever heard of, but as a non smisa member it certianly doesnt keep me awake of a night (my weak bladder does that instead)

 

I am off now to watch the Chase and Pointless

[DougJamie]

5 minutes ago, TediousTom said:

Right then I shall spend a few minutes of my fast running out existence to address each Rikyism in turn.

1)  I have wasted many a minute of my life reading drivel posted on here by Mr Dickson, I shall waste no more.

2)  The club is in a great place, as such people like Dickson have no justification in moaning.  As I say, intelligence above a peanut and all.

3)  I don't care what issues Dickson has with Smisa or anything else for that matter.  I dont actually have much of an issue with Smisa either but I do worry that they will not be able to run the club anything like as well as our Mr Scott.  Thats not a slight on Smisa but a compliment on oor Gordon.  Just for clarity I maintain the viewpoint that the premium Smisa membership is amongst one of the wankiest things I have ever heard of, but as a non smisa member it certianly doesnt keep me awake of a night (my weak bladder does that instead)

 

I am off now to watch the Chase and Pointless

Feck TT you must be old

Does it take you an hour to flick the remote- It starts at 5 !!

 

Come On the Beast !!!!

Edited May 11, 2018 by DougJamie

[StuD]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

As ever, an idiosyncratic view of Killie's debt restructuring, their ex-Chairman wrote off £1.8M, the bank, quite clearly, took a hit as well but like you say the specifics are confidential and Killie's stake in the hotel is a staggering 1.96% - keep spinning.

Hospitality is not a guaranteed moneyspinner - only a reluctance by the BoS to face the inevitable bad publicity saved Kilmarnock. I'm no expert but I doubt the banks will be lending substantial sums to diddy Scottish clubs again.

Finally the 80s were a thousand years ago (Celtic & Rangers didn't get shirt sponsorship till 1984!), along with Dundee Utd. we were the best of the diddy clubs until we foolishly threw a lifeline to Motherwell by suspending relegation which would've resulted in them going P/T - we will never be a regular Top 6 team again.

Is there room for improvement at Saints - undoubtedly, but noting you've suggested so far seems likely to be a solution

 

Ive suggested making the club more inclusive to expand membership. Ive suggested closer engagement with the local community. And I've suggested seeking out groups with similar equipment needs to form a buying group which will decrease costs and increase the value of any kit deal. I agree none of those three are the silver bullet you're looking for but all three are simple good working practices that would all benefit the club.

If SMiSA had the sense to use its money to enable growth instead of using it to enable St Mirren FC Ltd to spend beyond its means then the long term benefit would be greater sustainable success 

 

[StuD]

2 hours ago, zico said:

I didn't say that St. Johnstone walked away from debt but Kilmarnock did. Your first paragraph is therefore both wrong and irrelevant.

With regards to Motherwell, their main route to success was spending other people's money, not repaying it and avoiding relegation by lobbying against the promoted club.

I'd hardly say that St. Mirren 'good fortune' was wasted. The deal saved the club from liquidation, repayed over £3 million in debt, provide a brand new stadium with vastly reduced maintenance costs plus training facilities.

If only the club had had the foresight to include a running track

If only the club had the foresight to include non match day revenue generating facilities in the new stafium build perhaps Gilmour wouldn't have lobbied to keep the liquidated Rangers in the top flight. 

 

Spending other peoples money is how Gordon Scott bought last seasons survival and this seasons success according to SMiSA. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by StuD

[smcc]

6 minutes ago, StuD said:

If only the club had the foresight to include non match day revenue generating facilities in the new stafium build perhaps Gilmour wouldn't have lobbied to keep the liquidated Rangers in the top flight. 

 

Spending other peoples money is how Gordon Scott bought last seasons survival and this seasons success according to SMiSA. 

I suspect that the club built the stadium with all the facilities that could be provided within the constraints of the Tesco deal.

[zico]

6 minutes ago, StuD said:

If only the club had the foresight to include non match day revenue generating facilities in the new stafium build perhaps Gilmour wouldn't have lobbied to keep the liquidated Rangers in the top flight. 

 

Spending other peoples money is how Gordon Scott bought last seasons survival and this seasons success according to SMiSA. 

Regarding your first sentence, I asked earlier what non match day revenue facilities you think they should have built and how much it would have cost versus what they had available to spend. You didn't answer and until you do, your viewpoint is worthless.

I do agree however that lobbying for a rangers tribute act to be allowed into the top flight was a disgrace (note - he didn't actually lobby to keep the liquidated Rangers in the top flight as the liquidated Rangers are just that... liquidated!)

Regarding your last sentence, once its willingly handed over by SMiSA then its St. Mirren's money!

Clubs like Motherwell, Dundee & Kilmarnock truly did spend other folk's money - and didn't repay it! They cheated!

[zico]

2 minutes ago, smcc said:

I suspect that the club built the stadium with all the facilities that could be provided within the constraints of the Tesco deal.

Indeed, in addition to paying off £3 million of debt and building training facilities.

StuD doesn't know how much money was available for non match revenue generating facilities.

His own master plan was for the club to build a running track!

[St.Ricky]

This survey gives a ranking to the top clubs in Scotland.  You can see how St Mirren Compare. 

 

Quote

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-rise-celtic-rule-roost-12513457

 

[Bud the Baker]

7 minutes ago, StuD said:

Ive suggested making the club more inclusive to expand membership. Ive suggested closer engagement with the local community. And I've suggested seeking out groups with similar equipment needs to form a buying group which will decrease costs and increase the value of any kit deal. I agree none of those three are the silver bullet you're looking for but all three are simple good working practices that would all benefit the club.

If SMiSA had the sense to use its money to enable growth instead of using it to enable St Mirren FC Ltd to spend beyond its means then the long term benefit would be greater sustainable success 

 

The first two suggestions are generalizations - the third has possibilities.

The second paragraph is more generalization with an insult thrown in. 

You must be the only person surprised to find yourself on the outside, looking in. 

[StuD]

11 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

 

 

 

 

 

You write about a peppercorn rent being donated.

 

What amount do you class as peppercorn rent?

 

I can give you options for you to chose from if that helps.

 

Annual lease......

a. £1-£499

b. £500-£999

c. £1000-£1999

d. £2000-£4999

e. £5000-£9999

or

f. £10000 and above

 

 

 

We should all know this answer. Its F. Which works out at less than 10p per square foot per annum. 

[FTOF]

Would this be the Motherwell that have been a permanent fixture in the top league for years and work on a totally different financial level to us?

Only a halfwit couldn't work out why they don't have to ask for the occasional loan or donation to help out the club.