What do you expect of the Chairman and Board

[stlucifer]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 8:40 PM, Stu said:

St.Ricky debating with StuD is the meeting of minds the rest of the forum has been waiting for.

Yep. You can almost hear the echo as they knock heads.

Edited May 12, 2018 by stlucifer

[StuD]

21 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

The first two suggestions are generalizations - the third has possibilities.

The second paragraph is more generalization with an insult thrown in. 

You must be the only person surprised to find yourself on the outside, looking in. 

Even if that was true it seems to be one more suggestion than anyone else on here has. Everyone else seems to think the club is running at optimum level, capacity, with no scope for improvement at all. The lack of ambition is astounding. No wonder Jack Ross is looking to move away.  

[St.Ricky]

On 10/05/2018 at 8:40 PM, Stu said:

St.Ricky debating with StuD is the meeting of minds the rest of the forum has been waiting for.

If only Stu. 

Have you read the Business Insider report on The Top 19 Clubs in Scotland? 

Saints Board come out quite well on it. A good achievement in a short time by the current board. 

It also makes comments on how clubs can further improve with particular mention of fan owned clubs or those on the way to that. 

I generally find your views to be worth reading.  Would like to read what you and others make if it. 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by St.Ricky

[Bud the Baker]

1 hour ago, StuD said:

Even if that was true it seems to be one more suggestion than anyone else on here has. Everyone else seems to think the club is running at optimum level, capacity, with no scope for improvement at all. The lack of ambition is astounding. No wonder Jack Ross is looking to move away.  

But it is true. 

I have no interest in getting involved with the behind the scenes operations at the club, you do but sadly lack the ability to get on with just about everyone else involved - I pity you, genuinely.

[StuD]

23 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

But it is true. 

I have no interest in getting involved with the behind the scenes operations at the club, you do but sadly lack the ability to get on with just about everyone else involved - I pity you, genuinely.

EH? I've no interest in being involved behind the scenes either. In this thread the question was put - what do you expect of the Chairman - I stated my case, and have backed it up, and shown how it should be improved. Constructive criticism - nothing more, nothing less. What is weird though is those on here who are happy with 13th place. 

[StuD]

4 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

So that's approx 25 times more than what a neighbouring council lease out comparable land at. So hardly a so called peppercorn rent as you suggest (or are you saying that paying 25 times less than a peppercorn rent is criminal). As a local tax payer I believe that we're getting well more than enough in comparison.
 

I'm not quite sure what you are doing here? I presume you are desperate to tell locals that the SNP controlled council charging 10p per sq foot per annum for rent on a large plot of land in a prime residential area in Ralston is great value - whilst on the other hand telling St Mirren supporters that your SNP council are charging St Mirren 25 times more land rent as a council in a neighbouring authority (I've no idea which one). 

Knock yourself out. It sounds like you are determined to shoot yourself in both feet. 

[Ayrshire Saints]

"Happy with 13th place" Absolutely delighted you fool given it was the absolute highest we could possibly have achieved. Piss back off under your bridge troll, you are a total abomination of a human being, the lowest of the low, a mood Hoover depresant who is clearly fuming at an outstanding season for all true supporters. Your like the depressing fud that arrives at a party that is winding down having turned up uninvited. A bitter, twisted angry man who has nothing better to do with his time than troll. You hate the club and those who run it, we get it, we have done for years just let it go and get a hobby ffs.

[StuD]

47 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

Providing figures to show that you're idea of the figures or malicious allegations that St Mirren have somehow got favourable if not illegal terms are false.

Is it not possible that the land can't be used for housing?

Ps I don't think it was a SNP controlled council in both the cases that set the leasing amounts.

Surprised you don't know who the neighbouring council is, thought you knew everything

Allan Noon was the councillor who announced the terms of the extended lease. I believe he's an SNP Councillor.

I've no idea whether the land could be used for housing or not. And the term "peppercorn rent" was first used by Stewart Gilmour when talking about the lease agreement that got the club the use of Ralston. It's been repeated many times both on and off this forum by many other people. Of course the term "Peppercorn Rent" relates to a "nominal value" and not a specific amount. I'd say 10p per square ft is a nominal value.  

Carry on telling the St Mirren fans about how Renfrewshire Council is charging 25 times as much as another council though. I'm sure they'll be interested

[StuD]

20 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

"Happy with 13th place" Absolutely delighted you fool given it was the absolute highest we could possibly have achieved. Piss back off under your bridge troll, you are a total abomination of a human being, the lowest of the low, a mood Hoover depresant who is clearly fuming at an outstanding season for all true supporters. Your like the depressing fud that arrives at a party that is winding down having turned up uninvited. A bitter, twisted angry man who has nothing better to do with his time than troll. You hate the club and those who run it, we get it, we have done for years just let it go and get a hobby ffs.

Hello Ayrshire Saint. 

[jaybee]

On 5/9/2018 at 6:53 PM, StuD said:

Yep Ricky, I think that's fair. I'm not sure why anyone would think that was even remotely controversial. The club clearly has areas it needs to improve on, it's far from the perfect football club, and for a fan to act like everything is perfect just seems odd to me. 

Five steps? I think I could offer loads but to keep it reasonably concise I'll just do 3 just now. 

1. I'd like to see the club being more inclusive. It's small minded for it not to be. Let's face it the club can only ever accommodate 8.023 customers through the turnstyles on 18 league match days this season (19 next season).  But there is no upward limit on the number of members or affiliates that the club could have. Womans football is an area of rapid growth within the sport. As I said on the other thread an adult womans team was very ambitious, but setting up a girls footballing academy and enrolling girls teams in every age group would be a huge step forward. There is no reason why a girls academy should have a negative impact on club finances. Juvenile clubs can make girls football self sufficient and there's no reason why a senior football club with it's own facilities couldn't replicate the model. 

2. I'd like to see more community involvement. A number of clubs in Scotland that are far smaller than St Mirren are already good at this. Edinburgh Spartans is a particularly good example. Take a look at their oral health programme - Spartan Smilers -  that they deliver around local schools to Primary 3 children. The programme they deliver has proven to be extremely successful with tests showing that the information retention is around 60% higher than previous dental health programmes. Dribbling through cones to teach kids how to floss between their teeth. Rolling the ball up and down a plastic tooth, teaches the kids how they need to brush their teeth. The benefit to the club? Well first off they get paid to deliver the courses. Secondly they improve the clubs visibility in the town. And thirdly it enhances it's reputation as a proper community club. If Spartans can do it and can make it work, alongside homework clubs, alternative schools and with mentoring primary school pupils - then why couldn't a senior professional football club with a far greater annual turnover not make it work also? 

3. I'd like to see St Mirren build bridges to clubs like Glenvale and to work with them for mutual benefit rather than stare them down as competition and opposition. After all St Mirren and the local juvenile football clubs in Paisley and Renfrewshire have far more in common than they do in competition. Sharing resources would be the obvious place to start. For example look at the community coaching sessions the club does during the school holidays. Kids pay money and play football for a week and then they just go away again. Wouldn't it be better for all concerned if St Mirren were able to give out contact details so that any child who particularly enjoyed playing football for the week, can join a local club and participate in the sport at a level they can play at? Wouldn't it benefit St Mirren financially if they clubbed together with local juvenile clubs in a buying group that would buy all their kit from the one supplier? Wouldn't it benefit St Mirren if they helped those clubs fund raise - using facilities at St Mirren Park? I know it happens already but it's something that the club could be more proactive with. For example a sportsmans dinner would bring in money through bar receipts - whilst allowing the juvenile club the opportunity to fund raise. I'd also suggest looking at a business that Bobby Jenks set up in North Lanarkshire where he set up at Ravenscraig and juvenile football clubs would pay to use his coaches and equipment to then run sponsored fund raising classes. 

There's loads more. Obviously the club chairman and CEO have to start delivering on their promises. If Fitzy is telling people he can get big names up to Paisley to do fund raising talks then it's time we started to see him deliver. If Gordon Scott is promising free tickets to those who beat him in a race wearing a St Mirren strip, then follow through with the free tickets so you don't look like a knob. And someone needs to take a really close look at the way some of the internal operations at the club work. If volunteers are able to make a 5 figure profit running a raffle on match days - then let that run. Don't have it scrapped cause someone within the club thinks it's affecting their targets. 

sooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring

[St.Ricky]

1 minute ago, jaybee said:

sooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring

And your suggestions / thoughts are? 

I am not taking sides.  By all means criticise.

[StuD]

14 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

What is the square footage of Ralston (Saints bit, no the whole f**king lot, of course) and how many peppercorns do we pay for it. I assume that the aforementioned 10p means 10 peppercorns.

398,265 sq ft - give or take a few. 

It's a 3.7 hectare site. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20101027035848/http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/renfrewshire-football/renfrewshire-football-st-mirren/2009/03/13/work-starts-on-new-st-mirren-training-complex-87085-23132347/

And since I've found the exact dimentions now I do realise that the actual cost of the rent is 2.5 pence per sq ft per annum and not the 10p originally quoted. Cockles will be raging. 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by StuD

[jaybee]

39 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

And your suggestions / thoughts are? 

I am not taking sides.  By all means criticise.

If! I decided to offer suggestions or thoughts they would most certainly not be framed in the manner these are ... this individual could bore the arse of off a load of Jehovah Witnesses , what he is saying may have a degree (perhaps 1%) of sense but my god can he talk, and what is it that everybody says .just my opinion old boy

[jaybee]

On 5/10/2018 at 7:08 PM, gilberto said:

I haven't read most of the (I assume long winded pontificating) on this thread. However, to answer the initial question I'm more than happy with the way things are being done presently. On another note why did you come back, StuD? Please go away

seconded

[StuD]

1 hour ago, cockles1987 said:

No I won't, as I knew the actual cost and based my earlier comparison on that.

If you ask nicely, I'll give you the link to the neighbouring council and teams leasing agreement that's at the rate I quoted.

I have absolutely no interest. 

[Hambud]

And St. Johnstone's non match day revenue generating facilities were paid for by Asda.
Clubs like Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Dundee funded their "success" by spending vast amounts of money that they didn't have then reneging on that debt. Fir Park and Dens Park also require a lot of money to keep from falling apart.
The club that I think has been similar to us, in terms of not being able to use debt to fund "success" has been Partick Thistle.

Aye bit did they not benefit from those euromillions winners from Largs?

I'm pretty sure they helped out with training facilities or similar?

However I'd prefer our stadium to theirs any day of the week.

[StuD]

2 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

He's absolutely raging

At what? 

You've argued that 2.5p per sq ft in prime estate in Ralston is not cheap and that council tax payers are getting a great deal. And you've argued that St Mirren are being charged 25 times more than someone in an adjacent authority. As I said you appear desperate to blast both your feet off and beyond laughing at the tied up in knots state of your argument i have zero interest at all. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by StuD

[StuD]

2 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

You do know that the site leased from renfrewshire council is 3.17 hectares and not what wiki or folk that copy the information from wiki say it is.

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/article/5318/Ralston-Pavilion--Training-Ground-Bathgo-Avenue-Paisley

 

What was it you copied before, 305million engines instead of 3.5million.

 

So 2.9p per sq ft per annum instead of 2.5p? Well that changes everything....

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by StuD

[doonhamer]

Ah.  Close season postings, don’t you just love them?

[StuD]

18 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

What was it you claimed you earned before £1,500,000

See inaccuracies or lies that you've post do matter when you're dealing with figures for all decent folk. Only here to help.

Well again I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. 

To recap - I stated amongst many other things that St Mirren had failed to utilise the advantages gifted to them by Tesco and by the local authority and I mentioned the "peppercorn rent" - as previously described by Stewart Gilmour and many others. You took issue with the claim it was a "peppercorn rent" - which by definition is a "nominal sum" and demanded that I tell you how much it was. I correctly said £10,000 per annum. You argued that this was not a "peppercorn rent" and that it gave the taxpayers of Paisley a great return on a council asset because the local SNP council were charging St Mirren 25 times more than some other place in another council area. 

Giving you the benefit of the doubt I did a quick calculation - 2 x full sized football pitches at that annual rent meant the "peppercorn rent" was approx 10p per square foot per annum - a nominal sum. I then found a Paisley Express article which set the area at 3.7 hectares which would make the nominal rent 2.5p per sq ft - giving the local Paisley taxpayers even worse value for money, however you were insistent you knew this figure and that this was still 25 times more than some neighbouring council was charging their football team. Now in your determination to prove me incorrect, which I'll again accept you have done, the correct figure per sq ft appears to be 2.9p per annum - still a nominal sum under any description - yet I presume you'll still claim the SNP council are still charging St Mirren 25 times more than neighbouring councils and you'll still be claiming that renting out this valuable plot of land in one of the richest parts of Renfrewshire for a nominal sum still gives the Paisley taxpayer tremendous value for money. 

It makes no odds to me. My initial assertion that it is a peppercorn rent is still correct and still accurate. Meanwhile I do hope the SNP put you in charge of their future electoral campaigns.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

28 minutes ago, StuD said:

Well again I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. 

To recap - I stated amongst many other things that St Mirren had failed to utilise the advantages gifted to them by Tesco and by the local authority and I mentioned the "peppercorn rent" - as previously described by Stewart Gilmour and many others. You took issue with the claim it was a "peppercorn rent" - which by definition is a "nominal sum" and demanded that I tell you how much it was. I correctly said £10,000 per annum. You argued that this was not a "peppercorn rent" and that it gave the taxpayers of Paisley a great return on a council asset because the local SNP council were charging St Mirren 25 times more than some other place in another council area. 

Giving you the benefit of the doubt I did a quick calculation - 2 x full sized football pitches at that annual rent meant the "peppercorn rent" was approx 10p per square foot per annum - a nominal sum. I then found a Paisley Express article which set the area at 3.7 hectares which would make the nominal rent 2.5p per sq ft - giving the local Paisley taxpayers even worse value for money, however you were insistent you knew this figure and that this was still 25 times more than some neighbouring council was charging their football team. Now in your determination to prove me incorrect, which I'll again accept you have done, the correct figure per sq ft appears to be 2.9p per annum - still a nominal sum under any description - yet I presume you'll still claim the SNP council are still charging St Mirren 25 times more than neighbouring councils and you'll still be claiming that renting out this valuable plot of land in one of the richest parts of Renfrewshire for a nominal sum still gives the Paisley taxpayer tremendous value for money. 

It makes no odds to me. My initial assertion that it is a peppercorn rent is still correct and still accurate. Meanwhile I do hope the SNP put you in charge of their future electoral campaigns.

Well there is a surprise positive Stuart in all things St Mitten here is me thinking you would be on a Sunderland forum telling them what a shining light they are in British football. Oh aye there not lol. 

[StuD]

1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Well there is a surprise positive Stuart in all things St Mitten here is me thinking you would be on a Sunderland forum telling them what a shining light they are in British football. Oh aye there not lol. 

Troll! 

Chuck him in the Sin Bin