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Sunderland Speak To Jack Ross


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8 hours ago, John Gotti said:

I’m sure Jack and probably Fowler will be ok but I wonder if Potter and Samson will have made enough to make it worth their time?
 

I'm quite sure the 4 of them will move on to another job as a Team.

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2 hours ago, HSS said:

I'm quite sure the 4 of them will move on to another job as a Team.

I don't think Scottish clubs generally move the goalie coach out the door when there is a change of manager, do they?

Don't think Sammy or Potter will be guaranteed a place wherever JR goes next.

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30 minutes ago, Kemp said:

I don't think Scottish clubs generally move the goalie coach out the door when there is a change of manager, do they?

Don't think Sammy or Potter will be guaranteed a place wherever JR goes next.

Potter's wife still works at the same legal practice in Dunfermline as she has for at least 15 years, so I'd imagine JP has been a wee bit cagey about committing to a new career in the English game.

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12 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

 

Jack Ross cut short Shankland's loan, sold Jason Naismith, sold Kyle McAllister, sold Stevie Mallan, sold Lewis Morgan and left us with signings like Myles Hippolyte for a tilt at the premiership which he didn't intend to hang around for.

Can't believe you are joining the forum troll in coming out with this tripe.

The team JR took over, despite the undoubted talent, was headed for League 1 with Alex Rae. They couldn't string two passes together with Rae in charge and had utter dross like Carswell and Hutton disgracing the stripes. You are talking about Shankland, McAllister and Morgan as if it were the 2019 versions playing back then. It was Jack Ross's coaching and tactics that helped Lewis Morgan and Cammy Smith develop in to the most dangerous players in the league that season.

Jack Ross was a great manager for us who moved on to a much bigger job that anyone in his position would have taken. Don't be so bitter and be thankful for what he did!

Edited by Kemp
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15 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

But that's almost exactly what Fergie did with Aberdeen except our Chairman got wind and fired him.

Why is one revered, the other vilified?

Fergie did win consecutive promotions and did leave us in a better state than JR did. But let's be honest we were doing a Falkirk when he came on board and we were transformed back into the top league instead of level 3.

Not sure why JR did not get more wins and so many daft draws - he had a big budget and over the summer a chance to improve on last year - but we don't know what was going on behind the scenes, in the dressing room etc.

Someone else mentioned he could well become the next Hearts manager and I would not be surprised about that !

1 hour ago, munoz said:

Supposedly Fowler is the interim manager. Was it just Ross that got the bullet?

Yes Fowler is in temporary charge of the team, but will likely get sacked when the new management team are brought in...

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2 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

Fergie did win consecutive promotions and did leave us in a better state than JR did. But let's be honest we were doing a Falkirk when he came on board and we were transformed back into the top league instead of level 3.

I was under the impression we had never been in the third tier of Scottish football 🤨

15 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Fergie left a decent team behind him at Love Street, decent scouts and had signed young players to the club who went on to represent Scotland (at a time when we qualified for World Cups!). Fergie moved to Aberdeen and won the cups, league title and European trophies, managed Scotland and oversaw the most successful period in Manchester United's history.

Fergie was with us for just under 4 years - twice as long as Jack Ross and he stayed around to manage us back in the premier division (having knocked back Aberdeen in 1977).

Jack Ross cut short Shankland's loan, sold Jason Naismith, sold Kyle McAllister, sold Stevie Mallan, sold Lewis Morgan and left us with signings like Myles Hippolyte for a tilt at the premiership which he didn't intend to hang around for. Jack Ross also signed close to 40 players in 3 transfer windows and blew all the transfer fees received on dozens of players we didn't need.  We had 2 exciting seasons when he was around for his 20 months or so but to almost get relegated from the Championship when he inherited a team with Mallan, Morgan, Naismith, MacKenzie, Shankland, McAllister, Magennis etc was some achievement!

Who did Jack Ross leave behind at the club who he'd signed or developed (rather than players inherited from previous managers, or former academy players like the McGinns?)

Barely a few months went by without Jack being linked with other clubs... Dundee, Barnsley and Ipswich were all spoken with during his short tenure with us (that we know about).  Jack had no intention of staying around to manage us in the premiership.

Shankland scores 0 in 17 that season, for what reason would we have wanted to keep him? Rory Loy came in and scored 5 in 13, what an awful decision that was to replace Shankland with Loy!

You claim he sold four players - so that was solely his decision and not the board? There was nothing we could do to convince the likes of Mallan and Morgan to stay. In fact, selling Morgan and getting him back on loan was outstanding business considering he’d be free come summer.

Development of other players isn’t solely down to the manager either - it depends what’s coming through the youth system at the time. The only guys who’ve come through since Magennis and McAllister are Erhahon and McPherson, who were obviously not near ready at that point. That isn’t the fault of a manager.

Who did he leave behind? A certain Ross Stewart who unlike our current strikers, is scoring goals at Ross County.

And get over this pish about “wanting to leave”, management can be a short lived career. Look at Alan Archibald, one year he’s got Partick to the Top 6, one season later they go down and nobody wants to hire him now. He declined Premier Dundee to stay with us, he declined English Championship Barnsley to stay with us. If you seriously expect any manager to not even talk to these clubs, then you are deluded. Should we say the same about Mallan, Morgan, McAllister, McLean, J.McGinn etc? Should we have denied Kyle McAllister’s return because he chose to move to Derby instead of giving us 20 years service? It’s football ffs, and it’s a credit to the job Jack did with us that other teams actually wanted our manager - when does that ever happen with us? It’s usually is getting rid of them.

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Anyone mentioning Ross as anything close to Ferguson really needs their head checked.
 
 
Achievement wise, they are comparable in terms of where we were when they arrived and when they left.

Also in terms of galvanising the whole club and making the fans feel part of something special.
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19 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

But that's almost exactly what Fergie did with Aberdeen except our Chairman got wind and fired him.

Why is one revered, the other vilified?

Not quite ! Aberdeen approached us for Fergie a year previous , just before they appointed Billy McNeil. Fergie knocked them back , but when things started to go pear shaped a year later , he knew Aberdeen would still be interested after McNeil was appointed at Parkhead.

 

So , Ross turned his back on a shot at the Premiership with us , but Fergie stayed and further proved himself . 

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I think Jack Ross has been found out in England like many "successful" managers before him. At the moment he is a decent football manager but not a "great" one.

Be nice not to hear him talking about managing Scotland and his friendship with Brendan etc. Needs to prove himself now at his next club and learn to walk before he runs. 

Did well at St Mirren and Alloa but Sunderland in League One in England is a big step up and he hasn't done it. Guys like Mike McCarthy would have had Sunderland up last season, no doubts about it. So all the talk of inheriting a club in a mess and putting in structure etc is just a diversion from results not being good enough. He had the biggest budget in the league and wasted it. His big buys all flopped and this season its been the same story.

Seemed to have a very good relationship with the chairman so I was a bit suprised they sacked him so early but I think its the right decision. A solid Mick McCarthy type as manager and Sunderland will go up this season.  

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Achievement wise, they are comparable in terms of where we were when they arrived and when they left.

Also in terms of galvanising the whole club and making the fans feel part of something special.
Shame 1 of them tried to sue the club for unfair dismissal and the other went behind the club back to agree a deal with an other club [emoji23] Yes you are right in what both of them did, and that was to build a closeness between the fans and the team, as well as taking us from the bottom of the barrel to a good position in Scottish football.
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3 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

We were in the relegation slot to go into the 3rd tier when JR arrived - he surely help to prevent it? That was my point

 

 

7 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

Fergie did win consecutive promotions and did leave us in a better state than JR did.

Your first line also claimed Fergie had “consecutive” promotions 😉

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5 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

I might be wrong but most are saying our best manager since Fergie...not comparing the two. 

JR is a blossoming manager, by no means the finished article, but with all the right attributes to go a long way in the game.  He did well for us but I think we are forgetting that the managers we had from 78 - 88 (Clunie, McFarlane, Millar and Smith) took us and kept us at probably the highest level in our history.

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4 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

Achievement wise, they are comparable in terms of where we were when they arrived and when they left.

Also in terms of galvanising the whole club and making the fans feel part of something special.

Had Fergie not beaten Premiership opposition in the cups while we were still in the equivalent of the Championship and narrowly lost another cup game against opposition from a higher league (eg Dundee United cup game)? After winning promotion Fergie stayed on and kept us up.

From memory any time Jack Ross' team met Premiership opposition in the cups we were soundly horsed (Celtic 4 - St Mirren 1;  St Mirren 1 - Dundee 3 (friendly);  Partick Thistle 5 - St Mirren 0;  Aberdeen 4 - St Mirren 1). We conceded an average of 4 goals a game against Premier opposition whenever Jack was St Mirren manager. There were few signs that Jack Ross would have had us competitive in the Premiership had he stayed on..

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Had Fergie not beaten Premiership opposition in the cups while we were still in the equivalent of the Championship and narrowly lost another cup game against opposition from a higher league (eg Dundee United cup game)? After winning promotion Fergie stayed on and kept us up.
From memory any time Jack Ross' team met Premiership opposition in the cups we were soundly horsed (Celtic 4 - St Mirren 1;  St Mirren 1 - Dundee 3 (friendly);  Partick Thistle 5 - St Mirren 0;  Aberdeen 4 - St Mirren 1). We conceded an average of 4 goals a game against Premier opposition whenever Jack was St Mirren manager. There were few signs that Jack Ross would have had us competitive in the Premiership had he stayed on..
Compare cup wins.
Compare league wins.
Compare impact on club.
Compare galvanising effect.

Fergie IS and always will be the boss... but as Saints managers go, I still believe Jack Ross is the best since.
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6 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

I was under the impression we had never been in the third tier of Scottish football 🤨

Shankland scores 0 in 17 that season, for what reason would we have wanted to keep him? Rory Loy came in and scored 5 in 13, what an awful decision that was to replace Shankland with Loy!

You claim he sold four players - so that was solely his decision and not the board? There was nothing we could do to convince the likes of Mallan and Morgan to stay. In fact, selling Morgan and getting him back on loan was outstanding business considering he’d be free come summer.

Development of other players isn’t solely down to the manager either - it depends what’s coming through the youth system at the time. The only guys who’ve come through since Magennis and McAllister are Erhahon and McPherson, who were obviously not near ready at that point. That isn’t the fault of a manager.

Who did he leave behind? A certain Ross Stewart who unlike our current strikers, is scoring goals at Ross County.

And get over this pish about “wanting to leave”, management can be a short lived career. Look at Alan Archibald, one year he’s got Partick to the Top 6, one season later they go down and nobody wants to hire him now. He declined Premier Dundee to stay with us, he declined English Championship Barnsley to stay with us. If you seriously expect any manager to not even talk to these clubs, then you are deluded. Should we say the same about Mallan, Morgan, McAllister, McLean, J.McGinn etc? Should we have denied Kyle McAllister’s return because he chose to move to Derby instead of giving us 20 years service? It’s football ffs, and it’s a credit to the job Jack did with us that other teams actually wanted our manager - when does that ever happen with us? It’s usually is getting rid of them.

Jack wasn't given permission to talk to Dundee. He didn't decline their offer to stay with us instead. He was interviewed for the Barnsley job but wasn't 1st choice and 'ruled himself out' of the job minutes before their board appointed their first choice - still it helped keep oor Jack in the shop window come the summer! Did the Barnsley thing not happen at a key point in the season with Jack absenting himself in the run up to one ofthe most important games of the season?

As for leaving behind Ross Stewart - Jack gave him about 10 games (mostly as a sub) in 2 seasons where he was farmed out on loan to Alloa for the bulk of his time with us.

Rather than me 'claiming' Jack Ross sold 4 players... can we not just accept it as a matter of public record that Jack sold Naismith, McAllister, Mallan, and Morgan in one 12 month spell?

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14 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Compare cup wins.
Compare league wins.
Compare impact on club.
Compare galvanising effect.

Fergie IS and always will be the boss... but as Saints managers go, I still believe Jack Ross is the best since.

You're entitled to your opinion but Jim Clunie had a 3rd place finish (in the premier division) and a 3rd= finish and had us in Europe. 

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5 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Jack wasn't given permission to talk to Dundee. He didn't decline their offer to stay with us instead. He was interviewed for the Barnsley job but wasn't 1st choice and 'ruled himself out' of the job minutes before their board appointed their first choice - still it helped keep oor Jack in the shop window come the summer! Did the Barnsley thing not happen at a key point in the season with Jack absenting himself in the run up to one ofthe most important games of the season?

As for leaving behind Ross Stewart - Jack gave him about 10 games (mostly as a sub) in 2 seasons where he was farmed out on loan to Alloa for the bulk of his time with us.

Rather than me 'claiming' Jack Ross sold 4 players... can we not just accept it as a matter of public record that Jack sold Naismith, McAllister, Mallan, and Morgan in one 12 month spell?

Point being that Dundee were in a higher league, and the likes of Barnsley, Ipswich and Sunderland were all at a higher level than ourselves which would offer pay rises on what we could offer. You don’t know how many times he might have been approached from others and rejected it. It’s not like he was looking to move to Morton, QOTS or Grimsby Town, he was linked with better clubs and it would have been no different whoever was in charge.

JR specifically noted Ross Stewart as a potential based signing. The plan was always to try and develop him, and by the looks of it he was spot on here - unfortunately Stubbs was shite and offloaded him.

Can you explain to us how:

A team languishing in the Championship relegation zone could convince Naismith not to join an SPL club?

A team languishing in the Championship relegation zone was meant to convince McAllister not to make a move to a club like Derby County?

How were we to convince Mallan to stay here  in Scotland’s second tier instead of moving to England’s second tier, knowing in one year he’d be gone for free and the opportunity to cash in had gone?

Literally what the hell were we meant to do with Morgan? He was never going to sign a new contract, especially when he knew Celtic were keen. Six months down the line we’d have lost him for free. We actually got the full contract out of him with his return on loan - cash and loan was outstanding business.

Again, do you think these were all solely Jack’s decisions? Do you not think the board would have had some say? I’m sure I remember Tony banging on about how Lewis is ours for the season and then free to go elsewhere.

5 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

That's a bit of an unfair comparison. Our strikers have only played once in the league at Ross County this season, Stewart has played four times. default_whistling.gif

 

I was waiting for a comment like this, thanks 😂

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You're entitled to your opinion but Jim Clunie had a 3rd place finish (in the premier division) and a 3rd= finish and had us in Europe. 
Fair comment.

There is a case for arguing that Clunie achieved more than Fergie and as such, is our best manager ever!

I just feel the euphoria created around the club as a whole was pretty special with the two I mention.

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11 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Had Fergie not beaten Premiership opposition in the cups while we were still in the equivalent of the Championship and narrowly lost another cup game against opposition from a higher league (eg Dundee United cup game)? After winning promotion Fergie stayed on and kept us up.

From memory any time Jack Ross' team met Premiership opposition in the cups we were soundly horsed (Celtic 4 - St Mirren 1;  St Mirren 1 - Dundee 3 (friendly);  Partick Thistle 5 - St Mirren 0;  Aberdeen 4 - St Mirren 1). We conceded an average of 4 goals a game against Premier opposition whenever Jack was St Mirren manager. There were few signs that Jack Ross would have had us competitive in the Premiership had he stayed on..

You missed out a win over dundee in the cup

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