Jim Kellermann Signs

[W6Saint]

But they aren't Stubbs' signings.
It seems like there are lot of dummies being spat because some players, that the fans rate more than our manager, have been told that they are surplus to requirements.
Like that's never happened before at any club. Duh!
Get over yourselves.
Just ask Brock-Masden. It's one of the reasons why he's here with us now.
Jack Ross did exactly the same when he came to the club. It was easier for him, because we were so shite, it was party time when we got rid of the likes of Hutton. Ross would have made his decisions based on a couple of games. Unfortunately for him, and us, he had to wait until the January window to get rid of players he didn't rate and get his own players in.
 

Jack Ross improved the quality of the squad tenfold and in fact had given many of that squad around 3 months to prove themselves before shipping out loanees and players who hadn’t been playing for weeks anyway. Stubbs gave crucial members of a very successful season (and also some players signed with the future in mind) a week in La Manga before discarding of them.

The problem isn’t with discarding of players as personally I don’t think some of those he is letting go are good enough... it’s the way he has gone about it and some of the quality he’s brought in. I’m all for squad upheaval and development but he wasted his time early in the window and we are now scraping about gambling with loans and players who are likely finished.

What chance did Jim Kellerman get with us and in what way does he differ to Cody Cooke or Jeff King?
Same level of football, same age roughly, same sparse appearances in pre-season kickabouts, same underwhelming start...

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, W6Saint said:

Jack Ross improved the quality of the squad tenfold and in fact had given many of that squad around 3 months to prove themselves before shipping out loanees and players who hadn’t been playing for weeks anyway. Stubbs gave crucial members of a very successful season (and also some players signed with the future in mind) a week in La Manga before discarding of them.

The problem isn’t with discarding of players as personally I don’t think some of those he is letting go are good enough... it’s the way he has gone about it and some of the quality he’s brought in. I’m all for squad upheaval and development but he wasted his time early in the window and we are now scraping about gambling with loans and players who are likely finished.

What chance did Jim Kellerman get with us and in what way does he differ to Cody Cooke or Jeff King?
Same level of football, same age roughly, same sparse appearances in pre-season kickabouts, same underwhelming start...

What do you mean when you say he wasted his time? That seems an odd thing to say. The guy has worked tirelessly from day 1 to get players in that in his opinion would improve our chances of staying up.

Also, Stubbs is with these players every day and presumably none of the rest of us are in any sort of position to judge his reasons for sending certain players out on loan and keeping others etc. We either trust the manager or we don't.

Kellerman wasn't Stubbs' recruit. Stubbs wasn't your choice either. You are criticising Stubbs for not giving Kellerman a chance. What sort of chance do you really believe you are giving Stubbs? This is just rank hypocrisy on your part.

Edited August 23, 2018 by oaksoft

[Wendy Saintss]

Stubbs gave crucial members of a very successful season (and also some players signed with the future in mind) a week in La Manga before discarding of them.

...

Who?

[W6Saint]

What do you mean when you say he wasted his time? That seems an odd thing to say. The guy has worked tirelessly from day 1 to get players in that in his opinion would improve our chances of staying up.
Also, Stubbs is with these players every day and presumably none of the rest of us are in any sort of position to judge his reasons for sending certain players out on loan and keeping others etc. We either trust the manager or we don't.
Kellerman wasn't Stubbs' recruit. Stubbs wasn't your choice either. You are criticising Stubbs for not giving Kellerman a chance. What sort of chance do you really believe you are giving Stubbs? This is just rank hypocrisy on your part.

Nobody says i’m not giving AS a chance... I can be sceptical of his business and still want him to suceed.

Yes, Kellerman wasn’t signed by Stubbs so it should be no surprise he’s away... but having watched every game throughout pre-season and the early season games I simply don’t think it was fair to dispose of him so early...

In total, I was actually defending one of our much maligned newbies and putting it out there that JK perhaps has got a bit of a rough deal (perhaps not, time will tell). No anger, no lack of trust, no calling for the manager’s head, no tick tock; stop making a big deal out of nothing.

[W6Saint]

Who?

Well, genius... i’d say 2+2 points to me reffering to the likes of Eckerlsey & McShane initially and Ross Stewart and Hippolyte in second part.

As above, i’m not berating the manager i’m simply stating my opinion that some players are getting an easier ride than others due to who signed them when the outgoers may well actually be better (we’ll never know because they either can’t or are unlikely to get the chance to prove). As I said, time will tell.

I know your next boring point will be that senior players haven’t been told to find new clubs but that from what i’ve gathered nonsense. Yes, they’re injured but did Stubbs ever say he never told them to go? No. Said senior player also heavily hinted to it (over Twitter and to fans) and a player’s family member also said something that suggested this was the case. Added to that it was also in the press and all over social media so please don’t try the ‘Stubbs never said it so it never happened’ card.

[Jack the lad]

4 hours ago, W6Saint said:

Well, genius... i’d say 2+2 points to me reffering to the likes of Eckerlsey & McShane initially and Ross Stewart and Hippolyte in second part.

As above, i’m not berating the manager i’m simply stating my opinion that some players are getting an easier ride than others due to who signed them when the outgoers may well actually be better (we’ll never know because they either can’t or are unlikely to get the chance to prove). As I said, time will tell.

I know your next boring point will be that senior players haven’t been told to find new clubs but that from what i’ve gathered nonsense. Yes, they’re injured but did Stubbs ever say he never told them to go? No. Said senior player also heavily hinted to it (over Twitter and to fans) and a player’s family member also said something that suggested this was the case. Added to that it was also in the press and all over social media so please don’t try the ‘Stubbs never said it so it never happened’ card.

Very good post.

[Jack the lad]

5 hours ago, W6Saint said:

Nobody says i’m not giving AS a chance... I can be sceptical of his business and still want him to suceed.

Yes, Kellerman wasn’t signed by Stubbs so it should be no surprise he’s away... but having watched every game throughout pre-season and the early season games I simply don’t think it was fair to dispose of him so early...

In total, I was actually defending one of our much maligned newbies and putting it out there that JK perhaps has got a bit of a rough deal (perhaps not, time will tell). No anger, no lack of trust, no calling for the manager’s head, no tick tock; stop making a big deal out of nothing.

It's just what some on here do.

[Wendy Saintss]

Well, genius... i’d say 2+2 points to me reffering to the likes of Eckerlsey & McShane initially and Ross Stewart and Hippolyte in second part.

 

.

 

You don’t think that maybe Stubbs already know all about these players before the week in La Manga?

 

You do realise that Stubbs managed Eck before? The same Eck that missed a third of last season and is injured again?

 

This is the McShane that JR dropped last season and who has been a target for many boo boys on this forum? You do realise that McShane has been used by Stubbs this season?

 

This is the Ross Stewart that JR hardly played and sent on loan to Alloa? The one that started more games under Stubbs than he ever did under JR?

 

This is the Hippolyte who spent all his time on the bench after he arrived? Who was in the same division as Stubbs when he was at Hibs? Who is now back in the Championship? You don’t think that Stubbs already knew all about him?

 

You really think his opinions on these guys were based just on a week of training? Seriously?

 

Nurse!

 

 

Your examples were exactly as expected and highlight how ludicrous your opinions are.

 

 

 

[Wendy Saintss]

Very good post.

Are you in the same ward as him?

[oaksoft]

5 hours ago, W6Saint said:

Nobody says i’m not giving AS a chance... 

Errrm I am saying you are not giving AS a chance at the same time as you are criticising him for not giving others a chance. 

[Jack the lad]

7 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

You don’t think that maybe Stubbs already know all about these players before the week in La Manga?

 

You do realise that Stubbs managed Eck before? The same Eck that missed a third of last season and is injured again?

 

This is the McShane that JR dropped last season and who has been a target for many boo boys on this forum? You do realise that McShane has been used by Stubbs this season?

 

This is the Ross Stewart that JR hardly played and sent on loan to Alloa? The one that started more games under Stubbs than he ever did under JR?

 

This is the Hippolyte who spent all his time on the bench after he arrived? Who was in the same division as Stubbs when he was at Hibs? Who is now back in the Championship? You don’t think that Stubbs already knew all about him?

 

You really think his opinions on these guys were based just on a week of training? Seriously?

 

Nurse!

 

 

Your examples were exactly as expected and highlight how ludicrous your opinions are.

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

 

Are you in the same ward as him?

 

You like some others think their opinion is the only one that matters!

Wait until you see tomorrows line up then there'll be a melt down, but that's for another thread!

[Wendy Saintss]

11 minutes ago, Jack the lad said:

 

You like some others think their opinion is the only one that matters!

Wait until you see tomorrows line up then there'll be a melt down, but that's for another thread!

None of what I posted was an 'opinion'. It was all fact.

Of the 4 players given as examples, 2 of them started a combined 1 game under JR and 1 got more starts under Stubbs this season than he did all of last season under JR, 1 missed a third of last season through injury and is currently inujured while the other was dropped by JR for last season's run in. Stubbs didn't just assess these guys on 1 weeks of training - he already knew all about them.

As for tomorrow's line up, I very much doubt putting an injured Adam Eckersley into the side would improve matters! He's due an op FFS!

Nurse!

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Wendy Saintss

[W6Saint]

None of what I posted was an 'opinion'. It was all fact.
Of the 4 players given as examples, 2 of them started a combined 1 game under JR and 1 got more starts under Stubbs this season than he did all of last season under JR, 1 missed a third of last season through injury and is currently inujured while the other was dropped by JR for last season's run in. Stubbs didn't just assess these guys on 1 weeks of training - he already knew all about them.
As for tomorrow's line up, I very much doubt putting an injured Adam Eckersley into the side would improve matters! He's due an op FFS!
Nurse!

 

What exactly is your point Captain Sensible , sorry, Wendy Saintss...

Are we really deluded enough to think the Scottish Championship isn’t higher quality than the English Non Leagues? Ultimately it boils down to that.

Eckersley was told to find a new club before he got injured, THAT is a fact.

Hippolyte and Stewart were signed by Jack Ross as ones for the future as he believed they’d grow into Premiership players... THAT is a fact.

JR knows a lot more than me and you combined and given how their respective careers are panning i’d say he knows more than Stubbs too... that’s not really the point though as I want AS to succeed as much as anyone and wish him success.

I am, however,allowed to discuss the goings on at the club i’ve supported all my life and have put in more emotional and financial investment than I care to remember.

You can think i’m talking nonsense all you want and that’s fine as unlike you I can accept others have opinions, but who do you think you are trying to pass off jokes about other posters being in hospital? 2 in this thread alone and i’m seeing you engaging in verging on bullying behaviour on this forum. In what way is that ever funny? For that reason the likes of yourself need heavily moderated.

I’m not a knicker wetter, nor am I a Happy Clapper. I’m a realist who wants St Mirren to succeed.

You and your friend seem to be doing what you like doing on the forum, creating drama out of simple opinions and forcing opinions on the rest of the forum with your ridiculing, condescending attitude.

[Wendy Saintss]

18 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

What exactly is your point Captain Sensible , sorry, Wendy Saintss...

Are we really deluded enough to think the Scottish Championship isn’t higher quality than the English Non Leagues? Ultimately it boils down to that.

Eckersley was told to find a new club before he got injured, THAT is a fact.

Hippolyte and Stewart were signed by Jack Ross as ones for the future as he believed they’d grow into Premiership players... THAT is a fact.

JR knows a lot more than me and you combined and given how their respective careers are panning i’d say he knows more than Stubbs too... that’s not really the point though as I want AS to succeed as much as anyone and wish him success.

I am, however,allowed to discuss the goings on at the club i’ve supported all my life and have put in more emotional and financial investment than I care to remember.

You can think i’m talking nonsense all you want and that’s fine as unlike you I can accept others have opinions, but who do you think you are trying to pass off jokes about other posters being in hospital? 2 in this thread alone and i’m seeing you engaging in verging on bullying behaviour on this forum. In what way is that ever funny? For that reason the likes of yourself need heavily moderated.

I’m not a knicker wetter, nor am I a Happy Clapper. I’m a realist who wants St Mirren to succeed.

You and your friend seem to be doing what you like doing on the forum, creating drama out of simple opinions and forcing opinions on the rest of the forum with your ridiculing, condescending attitude.

You said that he'd decided to get rid of these players based on a week's training in La Manga. That is NOT a fact!

Eck has been injury probe his entire career. THAT is a fact. Hence why its no surprise that he's injured again. Seeing as AS has previously managed him, do you not think he knew this?

Its is NOT a fact that JR saw Stewart & Hippo as ones for the future or that he believed that they'd grow into Premiership players. JR may have just seen them as squad players. Neither were integral to last season's success.

McShane was dropped by JR for the run in last season. THAT is a fact.

Using these as examples to have a pop at AS and forcing these opinions on the rest of the forum with your ridiculing, condescending attitude is wrong. IMO.

[Jack the lad]

2 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

None of what I posted was an 'opinion'. It was all fact.

Of the 4 players given as examples, 2 of them started a combined 1 game under JR and 1 got more starts under Stubbs this season than he did all of last season under JR, 1 missed a third of last season through injury and is currently inujured while the other was dropped by JR for last season's run in. Stubbs didn't just assess these guys on 1 weeks of training - he already knew all about them.

As for tomorrow's line up, I very much doubt putting an injured Adam Eckersley into the side would improve matters! He's due an op FFS!

Nurse!

Do you know that for a fact?

Who mentioned Eckersley starting?

 

[W6Saint]

You said that he'd decided to get rid of these players based on a week's training in La Manga. That is NOT a fact!
Eck has been injury probe his entire career. THAT is a fact. Hence why its no surprise that he's injured again. Seeing as AS has previously managed him, do you not think he knew this?
Its is NOT a fact that JR saw Stewart & Hippo as ones for the future or that he believed that they'd grow into Premiership players. JR may have just seen them as squad players. Neither were integral to last season's success.
McShane was dropped by JR for the run in last season. THAT is a fact.
Using these as examples to have a pop at AS and forcing these opinions on the rest of the forum with your ridiculing, condescending attitude is wrong. IMO.

And you know that is not a fact for some of these players, how?

Immediately after La Manga these guys were told to find new clubs.

So he got rid of Eckersley purely because he’s injury prone? Is that what you’re saying? Do you debate that it is a possibility that no matter how well AE had performed in La Manga he’d have been frozen out anyway for Stubbs’ own players because he obviously doesn’t rate Eckersleyc even although the jury is out on his replacement in some respects... do you argue this point?

Having said that, just because a manager has managed in the same league as players or knows they exist does not mean he knows for certain whether they’re good enough for a certain team (especially not in a league he has never managed in before!). Although I do concede Stubbs clearly would’ve known all about Eckersley having managed him.

JR himself said he seen Stewart as a ‘project for the future’ and Hippolyte was signed due to his physicality with a view to the Premiership. Am I incorrect?

McShane was dropped because we brought in Ryan Flynn who should be playing at a far higher level than us (although incidentally we don’t start him every week either!). Jack Ross never released McShane. Am I incorrect?

I’m certainly not trying to shoot down Stubbs, i’m a fan of a lot of what he’s trying to do and if you read through my posts I don’t have an agenda. I am however as a fan allowed to question his decision making (and i’m certainly not the only one!)
I’ll be there tomorrow at 3PM shouting encouragement... I suspect you’ll be doing the gardenining with notifications on your phone for this site, ready to start another pointless argument.

[Wendy Saintss]

And you know that is not a fact for some of these players, how?

Immediately after La Manga these guys were told to find new clubs.

So he got rid of Eckersley purely because he’s injury prone? Is that what you’re saying? Do you debate that it is a possibility that no matter how well AE had performed in La Manga he’d have been frozen out anyway for Stubbs’ own players because he obviously doesn’t rate Eckersleyc even although the jury is out on his replacement in some respects... do you argue this point?

Having said that, just because a manager has managed in the same league as players or knows they exist does not mean he knows for certain whether they’re good enough for a certain team (especially not in a league he has never managed in before!). Although I do concede Stubbs clearly would’ve known all about Eckersley having managed him.

JR himself said he seen Stewart as a ‘project for the future’ and Hippolyte was signed due to his physicality with a view to the Premiership. Am I incorrect?

McShane was dropped because we brought in Ryan Flynn who should be playing at a far higher level than us (although incidentally we don’t start him every week either!). Jack Ross never released McShane. Am I incorrect?

I’m certainly not trying to shoot down Stubbs, i’m a fan of a lot of what he’s trying to do and if you read through my posts I don’t have an agenda. I am however as a fan allowed to question his decision making (and i’m certainly not the only one!)
I’ll be there tomorrow at 3PM shouting encouragement... I suspect you’ll be doing the gardenining with notifications on your phone for this site, ready to start another pointless argument.

Can’t be arsed reading. See my previous reply.

[Wendy Saintss]

Who mentioned Eckersley starting? [emoji5]
 

I give in, tell me.

[FTOF]

52 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

And you know that is not a fact for some of these players, how?

Immediately after La Manga these guys were told to find new clubs.

So he got rid of Eckersley purely because he’s injury prone? Is that what you’re saying? Do you debate that it is a possibility that no matter how well AE had performed in La Manga he’d have been frozen out anyway for Stubbs’ own players because he obviously doesn’t rate Eckersleyc even although the jury is out on his replacement in some respects... do you argue this point?

Having said that, just because a manager has managed in the same league as players or knows they exist does not mean he knows for certain whether they’re good enough for a certain team (especially not in a league he has never managed in before!). Although I do concede Stubbs clearly would’ve known all about Eckersley having managed him.

JR himself said he seen Stewart as a ‘project for the future’ and Hippolyte was signed due to his physicality with a view to the Premiership. Am I incorrect?

McShane was dropped because we brought in Ryan Flynn who should be playing at a far higher level than us (although incidentally we don’t start him every week either!). Jack Ross never released McShane. Am I incorrect?

I’m certainly not trying to shoot down Stubbs, i’m a fan of a lot of what he’s trying to do and if you read through my posts I don’t have an agenda. I am however as a fan allowed to question his decision making (and i’m certainly not the only one!)
I’ll be there tomorrow at 3PM shouting encouragement... I suspect you’ll be doing the gardenining with notifications on your phone for this site, ready to start another pointless argument.

Eckersley was told to find a club because Stubbs, as you have pointed out, having managed him already had formed an opinion on his limitations and deemed him not good enough. Factor in his age and his injury prone nature, then I really don't see why you can't accept Stubbs' decision. Given that Eckersley is injured, again, Stubbs' decision seems entirely justified. Whether you think his replacement is good enough or not is irrelevant. Although I think we might see Hodson there on Saturday.

To many people Hippolyte was seen as somewhat of a panic buy by JR in the last window, as cover for our strikers. He was played sparingly, and when he did, he didn't particularly stand out.  I certainly didn't see him as anything other than back up in the top league.

Ross Stewart had played well at Division 1 level. He had very little experience. Did you expect Stubs' to keep him on because JR saw him as "one for the future"? To punt Stewart and get money, was a good bit of business by the club.

To date, IMO, Ryan Flynn hasn't shown anything to suggest that he should be playing for a better team than us. I've been pretty disappointed with him overall.

McShane became a bit part player because JR didn't think he was good enough. No other reason. If he wasn't good enough for regular games in the championship, then he's hardly going to flourish in the top league. I'm sure I remember a few Ross County fans saying as much when they punted him to us.

It doesn't matter how you try to paint it, every one of the players, that you have mentioned, could have no great argument about being released/asked to leave prior to JR's departure, never mind after Stubbs was appointed, in my opinion.

Edited August 24, 2018 by FTOF

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

There is always a fair amount of rancid tedious pish on this board just like any other, but this thread has to be in the running for the most coma inducing thread of the year so far.

I will not be returning to it, other than to check how many likes I get for this magnificent post. 

[W6Saint]

Eckersley was told to find a club because Stubbs, as you have pointed out, having managed him already had formed an opinion on his limitations and deemed him not good enough. Factor in his age and his injury prone nature, then I really don't see why you can't accept Stubbs' decision. Given that Eckersley is injured, again, Stubbs' decision seems entirely justified. Whether you think his replacement is good enough or not is irrelevant. Although I think we might see Hodson there on Saturday.
To many people Hippolyte was seen as somewhat of a panic buy by JR in the last window, as cover for our strikers. He was played sparingly, and when he did, he didn't particularly stand out.  I certainly didn't see him as anything other than back up in the top league.
Ross Stewart had played well at Division 1 level. He had very little experience. Did you expect Stubs' to keep him on because JR saw him as "one for the future"? To punt Stewart and get money, was a good bit of business by the club.
To date, IMO, Ryan Flynn hasn't shown anything to suggest that he should be playing for a better team than us. I've been pretty disappointed with him overall.
McShane became a bit part player because JR didn't think he was good enough. No other reason. If he wasn't good enough for regular games in the championship, then he's hardly going to flourish in the top league. I'm sure I remember a few Ross County fans saying as much when they punted him to us.
It doesn't matter how you try to paint it, every one of the players, that you have mentioned, could have no great argument about being released/asked to leave prior to JR's departure, never mind after Stubbs was appointed, in my opinion.

Without reading the entirety of what you’ve posted i’m going to break it down for you, as The Captain seems to have clouded everyone’s judgement.

Stubbs is entitled to his opinion that the players he’s brought in are better than the outgoing... in some cases I agree in some places I don’t. I’m NOT saying what I say is gospel and i’m also not criticising him for his decisions - he’s paid a lot of money to make those and is far more qualified than me, you or Captain Dimwit put together - as a fan of football and of St Mirren Football Club i’m raising a point for debate.
At the end of the day me, you, and Stubbs all want us to succeed (The Captain not so much, he just likes to argue).

Hopefully Jeff King scores a hattrick tomorrow then there can be no debate that him replacing Hippolyte was wrong. Let’s revisit this point in a few months.

[W6Saint]

Can’t be arsed reading. See my previous reply.

Which translates to: ‘I have no valid points left to say’ or ‘somehow i’ve even managed to bore myself with the argument i’m trying to create out of something that doesn’t exist’.

[oaksoft]

56 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

Without reading the entirety of what you’ve posted i’m going to break it down for you, as The Captain seems to have clouded everyone’s judgement.

Stubbs is entitled to his opinion that the players he’s brought in are better than the outgoing... in some cases I agree in some places I don’t. I’m NOT saying what I say is gospel and i’m also not criticising him for his decisions - he’s paid a lot of money to make those and is far more qualified than me, you or Captain Dimwit put together - as a fan of football and of St Mirren Football Club i’m raising a point for debate.
At the end of the day me, you, and Stubbs all want us to succeed (The Captain not so much, he just likes to argue).

Hopefully Jeff King scores a hattrick tomorrow then there can be no debate that him replacing Hippolyte was wrong. Let’s revisit this point in a few months.

You can't really complain about Captain's/Wendy's comments and then call him Captain Dimwitt. 

[W6Saint]

You can't really complain about Captain's/Wendy's comments and then call him Captain Dimwitt. 

How so?

[oaksoft]

29 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

How so?

Because complaining about someone insulting you and then calling them names would be hypocritical. Are you another poster who aspires to be like Drew or Pozbaird? That's where you are heading my friend. Of course you would need to have half the western world on ignore to join that posse but still....

Edited August 25, 2018 by oaksoft