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12 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

The money for winning the Championship is more than £600k less than what Hamilton receive for finishing 10th and losing almost as many games as Brechin City! The money from the sale of Lewis Morgan was received in January and probably spent then as well - I am sure that several folks posted that despite attendances and season ticket sales being up last season and having sold McAllister and Mallan the season before that we were heading for a big loss unless we sold Morgan last season.

Accies are also hoping to receive up to £500k for one of their younger players moving to Aberdeen - doubt they will get that amount but they might receive more compensation for that deal than we got for Jack and James going.

They also lost about £1,000,000 in a scam...

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13 minutes ago, elvis said:

What Hamilton got more than a million for finishing tenth don't think that's right .

The £23.7million prize money is distributed according to the percentages set out below, based on overall league standing at the end of the season. 

Premiership
1st - £3.18m (13.4%)
2nd - £2.28m (9.6%)
3rd - £1.96m (8.25%)
4th - £1.72m (7.25%)
5th - £1.6m (6.75%)
6th - £1.48m (6.25%)
7th - £1.36m (5.75%)
8th - £1.3m (5.5%)
9th - £1.24m (5.25%)
10th - £1.19m (5.0%)
11th - £1.13m (4.75%)
12th - £1.07m (4.5%)

Championship
1st - £533,000 (2.25%)
2nd - £450,000 (1.9%)


Read more at https://spfl.co.uk/news/article/record-prize-money-for-spfl-clubs/#L1lAiz4xpU2TThrK.99

Hamilton: Played 38;  Won 9; Drawn 6; Lost 23; For 47; Against 68; Goal Difference -21; Points 33 - most defeats and worst defence in division stayed up on goal difference thanks to Partick Thistle's terrible goals for tally!

St Mirren: Played 36; Won 23; Drawn 5; Lost 8; For 63; Against 36; Goal Difference 27; Points 74

Edited by Dibbles old paperboy
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1 minute ago, Sweeper07 said:

They also lost about £1,000,000 in a scam...

If we only had to worry about Accies then that would be OK, but Dundee,  the fakes, and others are well ahead in terms of spending power.  Getting top whack for McGinn and McGennis will just about put us on a level playing field with the rest of the bottom 6.

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3 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

If we only had to worry about Accies then that would be OK, but Dundee,  the fakes, and others are well ahead in terms of spending power.  Getting top whack for McGinn and McGennis will just about put us on a level playing field with the rest of the bottom 6.

7th placed Motherwell will also get extra cash for making it to the League Cup Final and Scottish Cup Final.

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11 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

As I said, not a lot of money

Our budget will always need to be supplemented by selling top  players and hopefully bringing through new young talent. The Academy is the future and I'm sure the Board will be making sure the new manager is the right fit. Jack was excellent working with the young players. Rae, albeit poor at just about everything, was particularly prehistoric in his view of the value of the Academy.

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9 minutes ago, magnus said:

Our budget will always need to be supplemented by selling top  players and hopefully bringing through new young talent. The Academy is the future and I'm sure the Board will be making sure the new manager is the right fit. Jack was excellent working with the young players. Rae, albeit poor at just about everything, was particularly prehistoric in his view of the value of the Academy.

I don't know what Rae's view of the academy was but his record in 10 months of playing young homegrown players was decent enough... used Jack Baird more than Ian Murray and Jack Ross did, got Morgan to sign a final contract extension, gave Kyle McAllister his debut aged 16 (and would have played him more often had he not been injured)...

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1 minute ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I don't know what Rae's view of the academy was but his record in 10 months of playing young homegrown players was decent enough... used Jack Baird more than Ian Murray and Jack Ross did, got Morgan to sign a final contract extension, gave Kyle McAllister his debut aged 16 (and would have played him more often had he not been injured)...

If I recall correctly he felt academies were a waste of space as it was all about passing the ball and that was in some way fanciful. Rae wanted a return to a reserve league so old pros could kick the shite out of young players. Eh no thanks from me.

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Prize money is paid in 4 instalments across the season with a guaranteed minimum which is close to the total for the bottom club.

Clubs budget for the season ahead on where they think they will finish in the league.

Therefore, what clubs earned in prize money for last season is irrelevant for next season. Its already all been spent!

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I'm not going to get overly concerned about other clubs' spending power, especially when thinking about Dundee, Hamilton and the like.

The fact is that having a good manager can make the world of difference at this level. Someone who can motivate players and get them playing for him, and someone who is tactically astute enough to exploit opposition weaknesses and take steps to nullify their strengths. Their are lots of players who are desperate for a team, and desperate to impress.

Our job is to make the right choices in terms of players and manager, and then get behind the team on the park, knowing they are up for it and ready for the fight.

Hopefully the manager is in place soon, and the players will be brought in to facilitate the manager's vision.

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1 hour ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

7th placed Motherwell will also get extra cash for making it to the League Cup Final and Scottish Cup Final.

 

40 minutes ago, zico said:

Prize money is paid in 4 instalments across the season with a guaranteed minimum which is close to the total for the bottom club.

Clubs budget for the season ahead on where they think they will finish in the league.

Therefore, what clubs earned in prize money for last season is irrelevant for next season. Its already all been spent!

Hardly irrelevant if it has secured players on longer term contracts that run into this season or has an impact on their borrowing situation

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1 hour ago, magnus said:

It does make you wonder if the Championship is in fact way more fun than the bore fest that lies ahead and that's before you factor in the Ugly Sisters.

Totally agree.  The great season just passed was tainted for me with the thought of the 'reward' of promotion at the end. Made worse with the ( in hindsight ) inevitable Ross departure.

Now my default settings are Hamilton and Livingston and Perth saint slug fests.

The St Mirren promotion under Hendrie and Gus were similar, you seem to go from the great and exciting to the realisation that your going to the dentist for a filling without anaesthetic, you know you need to go but you also know it'll hurt.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Seaside Nipper said:

Totally agree.  The great season just passed was tainted for me with the thought of the 'reward' of promotion at the end. Made worse with the ( in hindsight ) inevitable Ross departure.

Now my default settings are Hamilton and Livingston and Perth saint slug fests.

The St Mirren promotion under Hendrie and Gus were similar, you seem to go from the great and exciting to the realisation that your going to the dentist for a filling without anaesthetic, you know you need to go but you also know it'll hurt.

 

 

The championship winning seasons have been the 3 most enjoyable seasons I've had supporting st mirren. All better than any Premier League season we've had.

It's also reflected in the attendances as our average attendance the last time we were in the PL was only 3.5k. Last seasons was 1,000 more than that, and that's with a close to non existent away support for 90% of the games.

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1 hour ago, magnus said:

If I recall correctly he felt academies were a waste of space as it was all about passing the ball and that was in some way fanciful. Rae wanted a return to a reserve league so old pros could kick the shite out of young players. Eh no thanks from me.

Rae's attitude here is everything about why the Scottish national side hasn't qualified for the last 10 major tournaments. In my birth country of Belgium youth football nowadays is all about ball control, quick passing and movement, done in a similar vein the Dutch model with smaller pitches smaller teams depending on the age. As a result we've now got a national side the country is always excited to watch, and a team containing some top notch players. We may not go on and win the World Cup but we have a team capable of going far. Technical ability is massive if trained correctly and it's worrying that if Rae can't see that, how the hell did he ever get a job as a manager.

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1 hour ago, magnus said:

If I recall correctly he felt academies were a waste of space as it was all about passing the ball and that was in some way fanciful. Rae wanted a return to a reserve league so old pros could kick the shite out of young players. Eh no thanks from me.

I don't think Rae ever said Academies were a waste of space or said he wanted a place for old pros to kick youngsters about. What I do remember him saying in a Q&A session was that the kind of football that the St Mirren Academy was teaching kids to play wasn't effective in the world of senior football. He's right in many ways. It's all very well to teach kids to build the play from the back but if they don't have the skills to do it effectively and the defender keeps giving the ball away to the opposition striker to score goals because of it then it's not preparing these kids for life in the first team. 

9 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Rae's attitude here is everything about why the Scottish national side hasn't qualified for the last 10 major tournaments. In my birth country of Belgium youth football nowadays is all about ball control, quick passing and movement, done in a similar vein the Dutch model with smaller pitches smaller teams depending on the age. As a result we've now got a national side the country is always excited to watch, and a team containing some top notch players. We may not go on and win the World Cup but we have a team capable of going far. Technical ability is massive if trained correctly and it's worrying that if Rae can't see that, how the hell did he ever get a job as a manager.

I haven't studied the youth system in Belgium particularly closely but I do remember watching an interview on TV a number of years ago where one of their top coaches was talking about how in Belgium they restructured their game so that all juvenile clubs were affiliated to senior teams. The senior teams would help with the coaching and development and everyone was sharing resources around a local area. It stuck with me because what he was saying was more or less aligned with my belief at that time of how the Scottish game should be structured also. He talked about how being a small country meant they had to make the most of limited resources. It was a brilliant interview and I wish I could find it on the internet again but I can't even remember who it was who was talking. 

I don't think it's Rae's attitude that has damaged Scottish Football Internationally. I think it's been the serious wrong decisions made by the SFA in terms of youth development and where to put the financial resources available to them. We had a system that worked in the 60's, 70's and 80's when we were punching above our weight as a nation. Kids played football for fun - in the street, on concrete, in parks with jumpers for goalposts, and for their school team and perhaps a local youth team. They played loads of football. 

Today we've got kids who start out in love with the game. They play for fun wherever they can. Their parents get them into a juvenile club where they play and train with their friends and they have fun. Then somewhere between the age of 8 and 12 we have senior football clubs that recruit "the best" of those kids into their academy systems - often spinning parents and the kids some bullshit story about how much fantastic potential they think the kid has. The kid signs up, and is told he can't play football for anyone else without the clubs permission limiting their time playing football. The pressure is piled up on the kid with each friendly match. One bad performance and they might be the next youngster to be dumped out of the system and replaced. Even if they play well if they happen to put on a bit of weight whilst waiting on the next growth spurt as kids tend to do or they fail to grow as quickly as their peers, they might be dumped out of the system. And they're expected to travel ridiculous distances to play matches in the "elite" leagues and all of the enjoyment they used to get from the game gets sucked right out of it for them. The Academies teach them possession is all important so you see kids getting into the senior team happy to play 20 passes around the back line with no pressure on them than to develop the play and to get the ball forward and we see the international side where game intelligence tells them at 1-0 down with five minutes to play it still makes sense to deploy a slow build up hanging on to possession. 

Last night was a classic example of pragmatism by Alex McLeish. He knew this squad was essentially too weak so he set his team up to be as stuffy and as organised as possible rather than to get at the opposition and Scotland never opened up because of the fear that Peru would destroy them if they did. 

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4 minutes ago, ulysses said:

My dads just text me to say the PDE are saying Paulo Sergio is in the running...can someone tell me if he’s talking pish?

Back of the PDE says he's put his name forward.

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52 minutes ago, StuD said:

I haven't studied the youth system in Belgium particularly closely but I do remember watching an interview on TV a number of years ago where one of their top coaches was talking about how in Belgium they restructured their game so that all juvenile clubs were affiliated to senior teams. The senior teams would help with the coaching and development and everyone was sharing resources around a local area. It stuck with me because what he was saying was more or less aligned with my belief at that time of how the Scottish game should be structured also. He talked about how being a small country meant they had to make the most of limited resources. It was a brilliant interview and I wish I could find it on the internet again but I can't even remember who it was who was talking. 

I don't think it's Rae's attitude that has damaged Scottish Football Internationally. I think it's been the serious wrong decisions made by the SFA in terms of youth development and where to put the financial resources available to them. We had a system that worked in the 60's, 70's and 80's when we were punching above our weight as a nation. Kids played football for fun - in the street, on concrete, in parks with jumpers for goalposts, and for their school team and perhaps a local youth team. They played loads of football. 

Today we've got kids who start out in love with the game. They play for fun wherever they can. Their parents get them into a juvenile club where they play and train with their friends and they have fun. Then somewhere between the age of 8 and 12 we have senior football clubs that recruit "the best" of those kids into their academy systems - often spinning parents and the kids some bullshit story about how much fantastic potential they think the kid has. The kid signs up, and is told he can't play football for anyone else without the clubs permission limiting their time playing football. The pressure is piled up on the kid with each friendly match. One bad performance and they might be the next youngster to be dumped out of the system and replaced. Even if they play well if they happen to put on a bit of weight whilst waiting on the next growth spurt as kids tend to do or they fail to grow as quickly as their peers, they might be dumped out of the system. And they're expected to travel ridiculous distances to play matches in the "elite" leagues and all of the enjoyment they used to get from the game gets sucked right out of it for them. The Academies teach them possession is all important so you see kids getting into the senior team happy to play 20 passes around the back line with no pressure on them than to develop the play and to get the ball forward and we see the international side where game intelligence tells them at 1-0 down with five minutes to play it still makes sense to deploy a slow build up hanging on to possession. 

Last night was a classic example of pragmatism by Alex McLeish. He knew this squad was essentially too weak so he set his team up to be as stuffy and as organised as possible rather than to get at the opposition and Scotland never opened up because of the fear that Peru would destroy them if they did. 

Yes, part of our revamp was the link up between juvenile clubs and senior sides. The thing that sticks with me is a comment from Pat Nevin mentioning his days on the Motherwell board, where there were concerns the Scottish national side would hit decline in the 2000s. He brought these worries forward but the SFA ignored them and didn't make any changes to the youth system. This was the same period Belgium were hitting decline, but they knew it was coming. A lot of work was put into finding out what was successful and what wasn't across Europe, and a plan was put into place to give us a good future for the national team. They completely overhauled the youth training inside out. They also looked into giving us an exciting national team as we had always been the "defensively organised" team. 12 years of absence followed as we went into our expected decline, but the production line of talent came good in 2012 when qualifying started for 2014. The national league has gained from this too, with Belgium now 9th in the UEFA co-efficient. The worry we have now is the number of players leaving at 16/17 who have unfulfilled potential. Romelu Lukaku was playing in the Belgian league and was the overall top scorer at 16, while gaining Europa experience with Anderlecht. De Bruyne played for Genk. They were getting better experience from this than some players who are leaving young and ending up in the English U23 leagues. This is the next step to negotiate. Back to the SFA, it pains me that the SFA could have acted and didn't. Even now the lack of action is ridiculous, all you have to do is look at Belgium's overhaul of the youth system to see the potential for smaller countries to thrive.

Your point regarding "20 passes along he back line" is spot on. Possession football can be important but has to be utilised correctly.  Again with Belgium, we start off with smaller teams and smaller pitches. As the kids go up in age we increase the size of the team and pitch. Training them in smaller teams means each player is getting more of the ball so they can develop individually. Pitch size encourages them to pass and move and avoid humping the ball forwards. Our national team plays possession football but there's a determination to get forward quickly and heap the pressure on. The players we have have grown up being used to tight spaces and quick passing so it's not issue to them.

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