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Lord Pityme

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4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

It’s strange because your opinion seems to vary from the majority of Sunderland fans that don’t also support St Mirren and overwhelmingly from St Mirren fans. It’s a staple negative approach. And let’s be honest given your history on here, negativity is kinda your go to. 

Well fairly uniquely for a Sunderland fan I'm not reliant on over hyped reports from St Mirren fans gushing about their former manager. I've been able to see Jack Ross in action for myself. He's done well at St Mirren but he's the wrong choice for Sunderland. It's hardly negative as I've said. It's a pragmatic assessment of his experience and what will be required to be able to manage a football club that has a financial turnover 50 times that of anything he's managed before.

Time will tell whether I was right or wrong. If Ross fails to get Sunderland automatic promotion this season he will be a failure. The absolute minimum expectation for a club with the capability and budget to massively outspend all their opponents in the division should be automatic promotion and for next season to have Sunderland challenging for a play off place minimum back in the Championship. If he manages that I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong. 

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4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Did you really expect anymore in the short time he was here that saving us from relegation then immediately getting us promotion? And people say you’re never happy... 

we also had a smaller budget than four teams. Falkirk, ICT, Dunfermline and United. He won the league by 12 points with an average budget. Not sure if that’s what you’re eluding to or that after league 1, he doesn’t have the ability to be a quality championship/ EPL manager. Again it would be a negative assumption. 

He didn't Bazil. He had the second biggest wage budget in the Championship. The club pushed the budget out to avoid relegation and kept it pushed out to try to push for promotion. I think it was David Nicol who said as much in his latest interview. 

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1 hour ago, StuD said:

It was you who said 

I'm simply pointing out that he doesn't and I'm quite happy about this. Jack Ross will have enough on his plate trying to look after the first team at Sunderland. The restructuring of the club -  the most important part of the job IMO - will be done by Stewart Donald and his advisor and mate Richard Hill. I'm considerably happier about that. 

I think thats a bit of nit picking if I’m honest Stuart. When I talk about his responsibilities I mean around footballing appointments. players, coaching staff, the same as you’d expect from any manager. To say the chairman will hire an adviser and I imagine you mean put together some executives and directors no doubt. That’s not something that is any new managers responsibility from what I can see. 

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50 minutes ago, StuD said:

Well fairly uniquely for a Sunderland fan I'm not reliant on over hyped reports from St Mirren fans gushing about their former manager. I've been able to see Jack Ross in action for myself. He's done well at St Mirren but he's the wrong choice for Sunderland. It's hardly negative as I've said. It's a pragmatic assessment of his experience and what will be required to be able to manage a football club that has a financial turnover 50 times that of anything he's managed before.

Time will tell whether I was right or wrong. If Ross fails to get Sunderland automatic promotion this season he will be a failure. The absolute minimum expectation for a club with the capability and budget to massively outspend all their opponents in the division should be automatic promotion and for next season to have Sunderland challenging for a play off place minimum back in the Championship. If he manages that I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong. 

What do you base him being the wrong choice on? Simply because of the size of the club which is something unproven.

Not in his remarkable turnaround in a very short period of time. 

Not on him schooling managers in the Championship with much more experience 

not on him running away with a league where he had the 5th biggest budget 

not on his player recruitment (okay they weren’t all winners but there isn’t a manager who has all winners. Plus the number of new  recruits, bearing in mind football is an 11 player sport, there was an expectation players wouldn’t make it) 

two MOTY awards 

several MOTM awards. 

His professionalism, enthusiasm, ambition.

Seems like you have a lot to be positive about his chances of doing well are but have zeroed in on very weak arguments for him not being the right choice. In the size of Sunderland and that he’s not Alex Ferguson... 

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54 minutes ago, StuD said:

He didn't Bazil. He had the second biggest wage budget in the Championship. The club pushed the budget out to avoid relegation and kept it pushed out to try to push for promotion. I think it was David Nicol who said as much in his latest interview. 

There was an interview last season saying we couldn’t compete with what Falkirk and Dunfermline were paying their players. Falkirk also came out and said they were given a bigger budget than previous seasons to go for it. 

I never seen davids interview, but I’d be surprised if he said that or was actually fully aware of the finances. 

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1 hour ago, StuD said:

Fergie wasn't at St Mirren for 26 years yet his contacts and his structure endured the clubs success for a decade.

Yes i think Fergie was a bit of a one off. My point was legacy and blue prints take more than 18 months . No doubt u will find fault somewhere. Any if YOUR new manager pays 1m for Kyle he is ok in my book.... Think they should pay 5 m for Mcginn though. All good for our future....:D

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19 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Yes i think Fergie was a bit of a one off. My point was legacy and blue prints take more than 18 months . No doubt u will find fault somewhere. Any if YOUR new manager pays 1m for Kyle he is ok in my book.... Think they should pay 5 m for Mcginn though. All good for our future....:D

Interesting that you would like your former manager to asset strip the club.

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44 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I think thats a bit of nit picking if I’m honest Stuart. When I talk about his responsibilities I mean around footballing appointments. players, coaching staff, the same as you’d expect from any manager. To say the chairman will hire an adviser and I imagine you mean put together some executives and directors no doubt. That’s not something that is any new managers responsibility from what I can see. 

He's not choosing coaching staff though is he? Kevin Ball is likely to be appointed Academy of Light Manager. Ross has never worked with him and has never known him but Donald wants the man who coached Jordan Pickford and Jordan Henderson at the start of their careers back in charge of the youths - quite rightly too. 

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Just now, StuD said:

Interesting that you would like your former manager to asset strip the club.

Kyle is not worth 1m. Just the "lets do debt" english pay way over the odds. Hence why i said john at 5 m. Hey maybe Jack might offer 750k for Paisley Panda. We get 2m plus in we will be morethan fine this year. Sunderland however. Keeping up with the newcastle jones has had the impact. Maybe with jack at helm. The fans might stay past 40 mins. But apart from the money i really could not care what souless Sunderland do....

 

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39 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

What do you base him being the wrong choice on? Simply because of the size of the club which is something unproven.

Not in his remarkable turnaround in a very short period of time. 

Not on him schooling managers in the Championship with much more experience 

not on him running away with a league where he had the 5th biggest budget 

not on his player recruitment (okay they weren’t all winners but there isn’t a manager who has all winners. Plus the number of new  recruits, bearing in mind football is an 11 player sport, there was an expectation players wouldn’t make it) 

two MOTY awards 

several MOTM awards. 

His professionalism, enthusiasm, ambition.

Seems like you have a lot to be positive about his chances of doing well are but have zeroed in on very weak arguments for him not being the right choice. In the size of Sunderland and that he’s not Alex Ferguson... 

Alex Ferguson moved from St Mirren to Aberdeen and won a Cup Winners Cup, 3 league titles, 4 Scottish Cups and 2 League Cups before moving to Manchester United - and he struggled like f**k for a while before discovering the right formula and structure. 

Jack Ross moves from St Mirren to Sunderland where the scale of the job is massive. It's the footballing equivalent of Google appointing a newsagent owner as their new CEO. At the very least Ross is going to need huge amounts of help. At the very least I hope someone is there to helpfully point out to him that Kyle Magennis to Sunderland would be a bigger miscalculation and a gross underestimation of League One than Jordan Kirkpatrick to St Mirren was. 

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42 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

There was an interview last season saying we couldn’t compete with what Falkirk and Dunfermline were paying their players. Falkirk also came out and said they were given a bigger budget than previous seasons to go for it. 

I never seen davids interview, but I’d be surprised if he said that or was actually fully aware of the finances. 

You'd be surprised if a Club Director was aware of the finances of the football club? Really? 

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8 minutes ago, StuD said:

Interesting that you would like your former manager to asset strip the club.

Also Saints fans are not deluded we know we are a stepping stone. But hey so are Sunderland. Playing Wycombe next year just shows how low they are. The bigger names u mentioned. None develop. If Jack wins League One dont be surprised if he steps off ur stone. 

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10 minutes ago, StuD said:

Alex Ferguson moved from St Mirren to Aberdeen and won a Cup Winners Cup, 3 league titles, 4 Scottish Cups and 2 League Cups before moving to Manchester United - and he struggled like f**k for a while before discovering the right formula and structure. 

Jack Ross moves from St Mirren to Sunderland where the scale of the job is massive. It's the footballing equivalent of Google appointing a newsagent owner as their new CEO. At the very least Ross is going to need huge amounts of help. At the very least I hope someone is there to helpfully point out to him that Kyle Magennis to Sunderland would be a bigger miscalculation and a gross underestimation of League One than Jordan Kirkpatrick to St Mirren was. 

Jesus..... its Sunderland not Aberdeen of the 80s. 350 k to manage in the third tier.  Says it all really . Eh Luton and Shrewsbury. Even rotherham are a league up. Seriously dont think Sunderland would be top 6 here. In fact with 2m and a decent appt Saints will be better. Just we dont have 40000 fans with nothing better to do

Edited by DougJamie

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19 minutes ago, StuD said:

He's not choosing coaching staff though is he? Kevin Ball is likely to be appointed Academy of Light Manager. Ross has never worked with him and has never known him but Donald wants the man who coached Jordan Pickford and Jordan Henderson at the start of their careers back in charge of the youths - quite rightly too. 

Insisted on Fowler coming over, I don’t see anyone coming in that Ross doesn’t want to coach the team he manages. That’s the rightful approach as well. Not sure why you hold these other people bringing in staff in higher regards that Jack ross. Do you know their history as well as you know Jack Ross’? 

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18 minutes ago, StuD said:

Alex Ferguson moved from St Mirren to Aberdeen and won a Cup Winners Cup, 3 league titles, 4 Scottish Cups and 2 League Cups before moving to Manchester United - and he struggled like f**k for a while before discovering the right formula and structure. 

Jack Ross moves from St Mirren to Sunderland where the scale of the job is massive. It's the footballing equivalent of Google appointing a newsagent owner as their new CEO. At the very least Ross is going to need huge amounts of help. At the very least I hope someone is there to helpfully point out to him that Kyle Magennis to Sunderland would be a bigger miscalculation and a gross underestimation of League One than Jordan Kirkpatrick to St Mirren was. 

Pitiful Stuart. Utterly and truly. You’re contempt for St Mirren and Jack Ross knows no bounds with that inaccurate and unfair  comparison. 

It’s Unfortunate you were clearly talking nonsense about only commenting on the SMISA thread with this new username. I suppose no one believed that from the start anyway. 

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19 minutes ago, StuD said:

You'd be surprised if a Club Director was aware of the finances of the football club? Really? 

Fully aware of the other teams finances to an extent where he’d comment on it. Come on Stuart, enough with the twisting. 

Although i’ll Happy put my hands up if you have the interview. I’m not nearly as stubborn or negative about fact based evidence as yourself :P 

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2 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Jesus..... its Sunderland not Aberdeen of the 80s. 350 k to manage in the third tier.  Says it all really . Eh Luton and Shrewsbury. Even rotherham are a league up. Seriously dont think Sunderland would be top 6 here. In fact with 2m and a decent appt Saints will be better. Just we dont have 40000 fans with nothing better to do

Stupid post of the year winner. :rolleyes: 

From a fan of a club who have signed a non league English player this summer 

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2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Insisted on Fowler coming over, I don’t see anyone coming in that Ross doesn’t want to coach the team he manages. That’s the rightful approach as well. Not sure why you hold these other people bringing in staff in higher regards that Jack ross. Do you know their history as well as you know Jack Ross’? 

Do I know Richard Hills history? What at Atson Villa, Gillingham and Eastleigh? About how he's been Chief Scout, manager and Director of Football?

Yeah I know a fair bit about him and about his experience in recruitment and restructuring of football clubs. Do you know anything about Stewart Donald or of Richard Hill? Donald himself said on Twitter that Jack Ross was in charge of first team duties. 

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1 hour ago, djchapsticks said:

Kyle Magennis would be absolutely 100% fine in League One and would continue to improve further.

He might improve, but he's nowhere near League One standard currently. 

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2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Pitiful Stuart. Utterly and truly. You’re contempt for St Mirren and Jack Ross knows no bounds with that inaccurate and unfair  comparison. 

It’s Unfortunate you were clearly talking nonsense about only commenting on the SMISA thread with this new username. I suppose no one believed that from the start anyway. 

I've been careful to restrict my posts to a small number of topics. I should be extremely easy to avoid or ignore - if that's what you wish to do. You ask me my opinion then you attack me for answering honestly. I do not believe Jack Ross is good enough to manage Sunderland. I'm a Sunderland fan, I think I'm entitled to my concerns. You have no vested interest in Sunderland other than to tell me that Jack Ross is great and to berate me for being disappointed and concerned with my clubs appointment. My concerns would certainly be borne out if he was to spend the kind of silly money being quoted on a player like Kyle Magennis. 

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1 hour ago, StuD said:

He might improve, but he's nowhere near League One standard currently. 

I think you confuse the actual footballing standard of League One with the financial rewards of playing in that particular league. Save for one or two clubs (Sunderland included) I'd say there is not much difference between the 5th -12th clubs in Scotland and the general standard of League one football. They are just paid a lot more handsomely.

At present, Kyle Magennis is comfortably good enough to be a good SPFL premiership player and so could, without hassle, be an English league one player and a good one at that.

If guys like Greg Wylde, Graham Carey, Sean Kelly, Nicky Devlin etc can carve out decent enough careers at that level, then I'm more than confident that Kyle could as well.

Edited by djchapsticks

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1 hour ago, StuD said:

I've been careful to restrict my posts to a small number of topics. I should be extremely easy to avoid or ignore - if that's what you wish to do. You ask me my opinion then you attack me for answering honestly. I do not believe Jack Ross is good enough to manage Sunderland. I'm a Sunderland fan, I think I'm entitled to my concerns. You have no vested interest in Sunderland other than to tell me that Jack Ross is great and to berate me for being disappointed and concerned with my clubs appointment. My concerns would certainly be borne out if he was to spend the kind of silly money being quoted on a player like Kyle Magennis. 

It’s went from one, to two, to a small number. You’re well on your way back to a full time member. Indeed you’re back to posting more than the majority of members do. Might as well ask Div to get use of the old name back now. 

Your opinion IMO is needlessly negative,  that’s why you get responses and that’s always been what you want on here bites. You aren’t fooling anyone by simply saying don’t respond.

I won’t hold my breath that you’ll admit you are wrong if JR is a success, like you’ve twisted it to ‘he’s just a first team coach’ (which is clearly not true.) when you were proven wrong that there was no way he’d be the Sunderland manager.

You abruptly left this forum under your previous name and can’t help yourself coming back because you’ve clearly missed people responding to your negativity,  poor show mate  

As for Magennis it just proves you’re here for bites and have no intention of trying to see the positive in the team you ‘support’

he has the potential that warrants a £1 million price tag. We have no need to sell him this summer and he’ll be a massive loss. The way prices are inflated in world football, that’s the way things are. 

Edited by bazil85

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21 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

I think you confuse the actual footballing standard of League One with the financial rewards of playing in that particular league. Save for one or two clubs (Sunderland included) I'd say there is not much difference between the top 12 clubs in Scotland and the general standard of League one football. They are just paid a lot more handsomely.

At present, Kyle Magennis is comfortably good enough to be a good SPFL premiership player and so could, without hassle, be an English league one player and a good one at that.

If guys like Greg Wylde, Graham Carey, Sean Kelly, Nicky Devlin etc can carve out decent enough careers at that level, then I'm more than confident that Kyle could as well.

Since Plymouths promotion Gregg Wylde has played for Northampton Town and for Morecambe on loan - both in League Two. It's a bit much to say he's carving out a career for himself at Division One level. Sean Kelly went to MK Dons before being released to Ross County.

Look at it in reverse though Louis Moult was one of the top players in the division over the first half of the season. He signed for Motherwell from National League Wrexham. His replacement Curtis Main had played at League One level, but was at League Two Portsmouth before joining Motherwell. He's been one of their best players since the January transfer window.  At Kilmarnock Stephen O'Donnell had been released from Luton in League Two, Alan Power was playing in the Conference, Jordan Jones was a League Two player, Kirk Broadfoot and Chris Burke were struggling League One players. 

Even at Paisley St Mirren have just signed a player from the non leagues in England. The two centre halves St Mirren had last season struggled at League One level, McKenzie was out on loan at League Two Notts Co before his transfer and Harry Davis was playing in League Two before his move - and he was a class ahead of anything in the St Mirren back line. And last season St Mirren sold Kyle McAllister to Derby - zero league matches with his manager talking about him not being used to the higher level of intensity in training down there. And the much hyped Stevie Mallen couldn't get a regular start at Barnsley in the Championship despite his fee - some on here obviously think Mallen will struggle to get a game at Barnsley despite their relegation because they think Barnsley might loan him back to St Mirren too. Yet you are claiming Magennis who was lower down the pecking order at Paisley will do better than them at a club like Sunderland where their midfield is already packed with quality. 

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