St. Mirren v Sunderland, friendly 21/7/18

[Dibbles old paperboy]

2 minutes ago, Kemp said:

I'm pretty sure Stubbs making a commitment to bringing through youth is one of the reasons he has got the job.  MacPherson has looked decent so far I would say, much better than I've seen him before.  I don't think there are really any others ready to come out of the academy yet though.

I do always laugh when Rae claims to be the one "that gave Lewis Morgan a new contract".  Its akin to taking credit for playing Leo Messi up front instead of in goals, its a pretty obvious decision to make!

I would have said there was a while where there wasn't much difference between what Lewis McLear and Lewis Morgan offered us in terms of first team football and Morgan only began to shine, here and there once Alex Rae was the manager - eg the second half against Ayr in the league cup group stages where he single-handedly skinned most of the Ayr team for the last 20 minutes of the game. [Note to Wendy - this was Alex Rae's team rather than Jack Ross's I am describing].

[HSS]

21 hours ago, HSS said:

3133 in attendance.......968 of them.

Sunderland may have sold 968 tickets but there's now way that's the amount in the stand.

Stand holds 1200.........

 

[Richie P]

As bad as it was I’ll wait to see how we play against Dundee then I’ll pass judgment.
 

I'm going to wait until I see how many we pump sevco by.

[norman]

Pretty sure this time last season this board was in complete meltdown after pumpings from Dundee and Thistle and a defeat to Livingston where we were utterly hopeless. The 4-1 pumping at Cappielow was, of course, yet to come. Guys like Reilly and Samson had already been completely written off. I don't even think Davies or L.Smith had even signed at that point.

You've got to give Stubbs a bit more of a chance, as well as these players who have just arrived. He needs new players and he's clearly actively working on it. For teams like us where you are waiting on good quality loans and free transfers, you often don't get these players till late in the window as clubs decide who they don't need for the season ahead, and players wait to see if bigger clubs will come in for them. Pre season hasn't been great, but this isn't the team that will start against Dundee, and it definitely is not the team that will start at the end of the transfer window. If we are shit then, Stubbs will be sacked, but let's at least give him the chance to play a f**king league game.

[Kemp]

1 hour ago, HSS said:

Sunderland may have sold 968 tickets but there's now way that's the amount in the stand.

Stand holds 1200.........

 

Stands holds 1633

[DLBud]

Remind me, what did Ross do at every transfer window?
 

I said somewhere else that if players aren’t performing they can’t have much to complain about when left out of the team or punted.

Ross inherited a team where losing had becoming the norm and at the first opportunity replaced a chunk of them with better quality. He then kept the core of that together in his second season.

Stubbs has told a core of the championship winning side (Reilly, Eckersley, MacKenzie and McShane) they are not wanted and replaced them, so far, with poorer quality.

Ross may have done the same but nobody will ever know that. Stubbs is in charge now, which makes it academic, and he’ll need to get his f**king finger out.

[DLBud]

This thread, 20 pages so far.....................the thread for the decent result against Killie, 14 in total..........................

Crazy, isn’t it. We scored no goals in either game so what’s the difference?[emoji848]

[HSS]

11 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Stands holds 1633

That'll be a picture of 968 Sunderland fans then.

[Macmackem]

2 minutes ago, HSS said:

That'll be a picture of 968 Sunderland fans then.

970 my mate and I were in there and never got the tickets from SAFC 

I would be extremely worried for next season if I were a Saints fan, our kids never broke sweat.

Rangers and Celtic will have a field day against yous

[faraway saint]

20 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 

Crazy, isn’t it. We scored no goals in either game so what’s the difference?

 

Aye, crazy, one was a league cup game and the other a friendly..........................

Oh wait, some people just post more when we lose, I remember them days from previous managers, nothing changes. 

[shull]

11 minutes ago, Macmackem said:

970 my mate and I were in there and never got the tickets from SAFC 

I would be extremely worried for next season if I were a Saints fan, our kids never broke sweat.

Rangers and Celtic will have a field day against yous

Maybe Celtic, the other Team died in 2012.

[faraway saint]

43 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 

I said somewhere else that if players aren’t performing they can’t have much to complain about when left out of the team or punted.

Ross inherited a team where losing had becoming the norm and at the first opportunity replaced a chunk of them with better quality. He then kept the core of that together in his second season.

Stubbs has told a core of the championship winning side (Reilly, Eckersley, MacKenzie and McShane) they are not wanted and replaced them, so far, with poorer quality.

Ross may have done the same but nobody will ever know that. Stubbs is in charge now, which makes it academic, and he’ll need to get his f**king finger out.
 

 

Are you advocating we need a new manager? 

[Sonny]

39 minutes ago, Macmackem said:

970 my mate and I were in there and never got the tickets from SAFC 

I would be extremely worried for next season if I were a Saints fan, our kids never broke sweat.

Rangers and Celtic will have a field day against yous

I think most of us are well aware of that. The team and formation from last season is night and day from what Stubbs is assembling so far. Yesterday was an embarrassment.

[DLBud]

Oh wait, some people just post more when we lose

Of course they do. What’s your point?

[DLBud]

Are you advocating we need a new manager? 

I’m not advocating anything of the sort. I’m simply answering your question about Ross’s transfer window dealings and how they compare to Stubbs.

I’m not impressed by Stubbs at all but to talk about replacing him is a bit daft.

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 

Of course they do. What’s your point?

 

[Dare]

Based on yesterday we have a fair bit to do in terms of fitness. Our defence dropped really deep as they were obviously worried about the ball over the top. This left our midfield with an almost thankless task and with only Mcginn showing anything we struggled badly.

Big couple of weeks coming up for us - hopefully Stubbs can get it right

[Drew]

2 hours ago, norman said:

Pretty sure this time last season this board was in complete meltdown after pumpings from Dundee and Thistle and a defeat to Livingston where we were utterly hopeless. The 4-1 pumping at Cappielow was, of course, yet to come. Guys like Reilly and Samson had already been completely written off. I don't even think Davies or L.Smith had even signed at that point.

You've got to give Stubbs a bit more of a chance, as well as these players who have just arrived. He needs new players and he's clearly actively working on it. For teams like us where you are waiting on good quality loans and free transfers, you often don't get these players till late in the window as clubs decide who they don't need for the season ahead, and players wait to see if bigger clubs will come in for them. Pre season hasn't been great, but this isn't the team that will start against Dundee, and it definitely is not the team that will start at the end of the transfer window. If we are shit then, Stubbs will be sacked, but let's at least give him the chance to play a f**king league game.

You say he is actively working on bringing players in. That's the very least we would expect given he has told a few they can leave, and has talked about marquee signings.

The issue a few of us seem to have is that, based on the trialists on show yesterday, the standard of player he is looking at might not be what we would have hoped/expected.

We need better players that we had last season if the club is going to build on recent progress. Letting guys like Eckersley and Hippolyte go is fine, but only if their replacements are upgrades.

Anyway, we'll just have to hope that Stubbs can sort it out before the window closes. It would also help if he utilised the players available to him to their best effect.

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Drew

[norman]

2 minutes ago, Drew said:

You say he is actively working on bringing players in. That's the very least we would expect given he has told a few they can leave, and has talked about marquee signings.

The issue a few of us seem to have is that, based on the trialists on show yesterday, the standard of player he is looking at might not be what we would have hoped/expected.

We need better players that we had last season if the club is going to build on recent progress. Letting guys like Eckersley and Hippolyte go is fine, but only if their replacements are upgrades.

Anyway, we'll just have to hope that Stubbs can sort it out before the window closes. It would also help if he utilised the players available to him to their best effect.

 

They were trialists! The whole point of trialists is to give them a trail and see if there is anything there you can use, usually as a squad player. If these were guys Stubbs really thought were definitely good enough they wouldn't have been trialists. Most trialists don't get signed, and the better players don't go on trail. 

[magnus]

18 minutes ago, Drew said:

You say he is actively working on bringing players in. That's the very least we would expect given he has told a few they can leave, and has talked about marquee signings.

The issue a few of us seem to have is that, based on the trialists on show yesterday, the standard of player he is looking at might not be what we would have hoped/expected.

We need better players that we had last season if the club is going to build on recent progress. Letting guys like Eckersley and Hippolyte go is fine, but only if their replacements are upgrades.

Anyway, we'll just have to hope that Stubbs can sort it out before the window closes. It would also help if he utilised the players available to him to their best effect.

 

100% agree Drew. 3 or 4 genuinely talented, battle hardened, fit pros (ideally a couple of gallus hard arses) would make all the difference. How much better would our team be with a moaning faced Paul McGowan as a sitting midfielder just behind Steven? This type of guy must be out there. I think we should forget about waiting for loan deal favours from Celtic - it's taking too long. Rangers have just signed 10 new players surely there is someone surplus there, with top flight Scottish experience, that can do a job for us or do we have to continue to drop down 5 divisions for talent? Thought the boy Jackson was a scout surely he has scouted some Scottish teams?

[Drew]

47 minutes ago, norman said:

They were trialists! The whole point of trialists is to give them a trail and see if there is anything there you can use, usually as a squad player. If these were guys Stubbs really thought were definitely good enough they wouldn't have been trialists. Most trialists don't get signed, and the better players don't go on trail. 

Yes, I know how it works with trialists, but we are two weeks from the season starting, and these guys were miles away from what we need based on their showings yesterday.

If we had the core of a good squad in place and were looking to augment it, aye, give these jobbers a trial. We don't have the core of a solid squad in place, however, so it is a bit concerning that randomers are being invited for a run out at this stage in the day.

 

[slapsalmon]

55 minutes ago, Drew said:

Yes, I know how it works with trialists, but we are two weeks from the season starting, and these guys were miles away from what we need based on their showings yesterday.

If we had the core of a good squad in place and were looking to augment it, aye, give these jobbers a trial. We don't have the core of a solid squad in place, however, so it is a bit concerning that randomers are being invited for a run out at this stage in the day.

 

The trialists have been training against players that have been called shite all over this thread.  Maybe they looked good in training against shite.

[DLBud]

They were trialists! The whole point of trialists is to give them a trail and see if there is anything there you can use, usually as a squad player. If these were guys Stubbs really thought were definitely good enough they wouldn't have been trialists. Most trialists don't get signed, and the better players don't go on trail. 

Triallists don’t usually rock up on a Saturday and get a game. They are brought into train with the club and then maybe get some game time before they are offered a deal. If these guys had been with us for anymore than 20mins it would have been easy to see they were slow, unfit and clearly not the answer.

The point that was being made is why release decent pros and replace them with this shite?

[norman]

9 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 

Triallists don’t usually rock up on a Saturday and get a game. They are brought into train with the club and then maybe get some game time before they are offered a deal. If these guys had been with us for anymore than 20mins it would have been easy to see they were slow, unfit and clearly not the answer.

The point that was being made is why release decent pros and replace them with this shite?

 

Sorry, how many trialists get offered a deal? You think it's normal for a trialist to train for a few days, play a game then get offered a deal? They are there on trail, the clue is in the name. They aren't deemed good enough to get offered a deal, but are given the opportunity to change the managers mind over a short trial period. We haven't replaced anyone with these trialists as we haven't actually signed any of them.

[DLBud]

I’m not sure what your point is here?

The squad he inherited was light already due to some loanees returning to parent clubs. He’s let another few go and replaced them with what, on the face of it, is poorer quality.

The current team is arguably 4 or 5 starters short of being competitive in the league yet we are pissing about with traillists that are f**king rotten and have zero pedigree. Why?

Stubbshas been f**king around for the best part of 18 months watching football up and down he country and when he finally gets a chance of redemption this is what he brings in to give him a chance of success? He promised signings that would excite us. Im not excited by the sight of my team being ripped apart and filled up with players who will travel anywhere to get a chance because they are pish and certainly not at the standard required to keep us in he Premiership.

He was pretty clear after the game that they wouldn’t be getting another chance. My point is that he surely didn’t need to watch them play to know this. If he did then I’m really concerned as my 11 year old daughter asked 5 minutes in why the guy that looked like Cavani was so fat and slow. “Why not just play Danny up front” she continued.

Out of the mouths of babes.........