Jump to content

St. Mirren v Sunderland, friendly 21/7/18


Recommended Posts

You have no idea what other players he's trying to sign! Instead you are going off on one about trialists as if we are pinning our hopes on these guys, and some weird belief that all trialists should be ready made first team players whose contract offer is a mere formality.

It was a pre season friendly, this is when you are supposed to try different formations, see how players do in different positions and play trialists. Stubbs hasn't even played a league game yet. He hasn't assembled his full squad yet. You'd think people would have learned after this exact same meltdown last season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Norman, it's not very difficult to grasp.

Anyone sitting in the stand could see after about 10 minutes that one of the trialists was utter shite and had no idea where to even stand on the pitch never mind what to do when the ball came near him.  We would expect our manager to have seen this in training as well, and not send him out for a first team game.  The worry is, therefore, his judgement is very poor.  It is concerning to be pissing about like this when the season has already started.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Norman, it's not very difficult to grasp.

Anyone sitting in the stand could see after about 10 minutes that one of the trialists was utter shite and had no idea where to even stand on the pitch never mind what to do when the ball came near him.  We would expect our manager to have seen this in training as well, and not send him out for a first team game.  The worry is, therefore, his judgement is very poor.  It is concerning to be pissing about like this when the season has already started.

All 3 have played for championship or premiership teams in England is that not the standard Stubbs should be looking at.

 

They weren’t good enough on that viewing but that’s what the friendly was their for Stubbs to have a look at them who even knows if they had a training session with the squad or just turned up on the Saturday.

 

Just seems people are just looking to jump on anything to be negative.

 

We need players Stubbs knows this we will just have to wait and see what he brings in I don’t care if he played 11 trailists on Saturday against Sunderland it was a friendly and we need players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Norman, it's not very difficult to grasp.

Anyone sitting in the stand could see after about 10 minutes that one of the trialists was utter shite and had no idea where to even stand on the pitch never mind what to do when the ball came near him.  We would expect our manager to have seen this in training as well, and not send him out for a first team game.  The worry is, therefore, his judgement is very poor.  It is concerning to be pissing about like this when the season has already started.

These guys were internationalists who have played at a higher level than St.Mirren. There was no harm in giving them some time in a pre season friendly to see if there was anything worth pursuing, and as this was our only friendly then this was exactly the right time. This is what shouldn't be difficult to grasp. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have no idea what other players he's trying to sign! Instead you are going off on one about trialists as if we are pinning our hopes on these guys, and some weird belief that all trialists should be ready made first team players whose contract offer is a mere formality.


Who he’s hoping to sign is largely irrelevant. The guys he brought in as trialists were simply not good enough and if this is the calibre we’re looking at, even as squad players, then it’s concerning.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DLBud said:

I’m not sure what your point is here?

The squad he inherited was light already due to some loanees returning to parent clubs. He’s let another few go and replaced them with what, on the face of it, is poorer quality.

The current team is arguably 4 or 5 starters short of being competitive in the league yet we are pissing about with traillists that are f**king rotten and have zero pedigree. Why?

Stubbshas been f**king around for the best part of 18 months watching football up and down he country and when he finally gets a chance of redemption this is what he brings in to give him a chance of success? He promised signings that would excite us. Im not excited by the sight of my team being ripped apart and filled up with players who will travel anywhere to get a chance because they are pish and certainly not at the standard required to keep us in he Premiership.

He was pretty clear after the game that they wouldn’t be getting another chance. My point is that he surely didn’t need to watch them play to know this. If he did then I’m really concerned as my 11 year old daughter asked 5 minutes in why the guy that looked like Cavani was so fat and slow. “Why not just play Danny up front” she continued.

Out of the mouths of babes.........

Did it never cross your mind that maybe Danny was played out wide to improve his fitness and Cammy too

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DLBud said:

I’m not sure what your point is here?

The squad he inherited was light already due to some loanees returning to parent clubs. He’s let another few go and replaced them with what, on the face of it, is poorer quality.

The current team is arguably 4 or 5 starters short of being competitive in the league yet we are pissing about with traillists that are f**king rotten and have zero pedigree. Why?

Stubbshas been f**king around for the best part of 18 months watching football up and down he country and when he finally gets a chance of redemption this is what he brings in to give him a chance of success? He promised signings that would excite us. Im not excited by the sight of my team being ripped apart and filled up with players who will travel anywhere to get a chance because they are pish and certainly not at the standard required to keep us in he Premiership.

He was pretty clear after the game that they wouldn’t be getting another chance. My point is that he surely didn’t need to watch them play to know this. If he did then I’m really concerned as my 11 year old daughter asked 5 minutes in why the guy that looked like Cavani was so fat and slow. “Why not just play Danny up front” she continued.

Out of the mouths of babes.........

Was going to post similar. Couldn't agree more. It kinda says it all for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


It was a pre season friendly, this is when you are supposed to try different formations, see how players do in different positions and play trialists. Stubbs hasn't even played a league game yet. He hasn't assembled his full squad yet. You'd think people would have learned after this exact same meltdown last season.


We came very close to losing to Spartans on Tuesday on what was a competitive match. That would have been the worst result in our history. I don’t agree with the League Cup format but the season has started.

Whether Saturday was a friendly or not I don’t expect to see my team ship six f**king goals at home to any team.

So far, IMO, he’s made bad choices letting decent players go and brought in poor quality with little professional experience. He’s had a long time out of the game where I would have expected he’d have watched teams play (including us) so he would know where guys are best deployed (i.e. Cammy Smith) and who was available in the market to improve us. I appreciate a couple of loans will go down to the wire as we’re waiting on big clubs deciding who to let go but this team is devoid of experience and leadership that won’t be fixed by a couple of young guys from EPL U23 squads.

No meltdown from me but, TBF, if I was going to meltdown a f**king 0-6 hosing at home would probably be the catalyst for it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did it never cross your mind that maybe Danny was played out wide to improve his fitness and Cammy too


Really? Listen, even if you happened to run more in a wide position than a more central one (you don’t, BTW) why would you imbalance your team just to improve someone’s fitness? It’s the f**king 21st Century. Sports Science has surely evolved beyond that?[emoji23]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Macmackem said:

970 my mate and I were in there and never got the tickets from SAFC 

I would be extremely worried for next season if I were a Saints fan, our kids never broke sweat.

Rangers and Celtic will have a field day against yous

Dicko's back.:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, norman said:

Sorry, how many trialists get offered a deal? You think it's normal for a trialist to train for a few days, play a game then get offered a deal? They are there on trail, the clue is in the name. They aren't deemed good enough to get offered a deal, but are given the opportunity to change the managers mind over a short trial period. We haven't replaced anyone with these trialists as we haven't actually signed any of them.

When we have lots of new signings who haven't been given much competitive game time in the pre-league-season games so far why not use the Sunderland game to get them match fit? Unless Stubbs reckoned the scoreline would have been worse had more of his own signings started?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, norman said:

Instead you are going off on one about trialists as if we are pinning our hopes on these guys, and some weird belief that all trialists should be ready made first team players whose contract offer is a mere formality.

At this point in proceedings and looking at the current squad, he shouldn't be bringing anyone in, on trial or otherwise, who isn't a ready made first team footballer. 

We have literally no space left for squad players who might just come good eventually. Guys like the three yesterday (a guy who hasn't played consistently at any decent level for 4 years, an overweight league 2 journeyman and a 24 year old with about 20 senior games under his belt)  shouldn't even be entertained as possibilities. 

Edited by djchapsticks
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 


We came very close to losing to Spartans on Tuesday on what was a competitive match. That would have been the worst result in our history. I don’t agree with the League Cup format but the season has started.

Whether Saturday was a friendly or not I don’t expect to see my team ship six f**king goals at home to any team.

So far, IMO, he’s made bad choices letting decent players go and brought in poor quality with little professional experience. He’s had a long time out of the game where I would have expected he’d have watched teams play (including us) so he would know where guys are best deployed (i.e. Cammy Smith) and who was available in the market to improve us. I appreciate a couple of loans will go down to the wire as we’re waiting on big clubs deciding who to let go but this team is devoid of experience and leadership that won’t be fixed by a couple of young guys from EPL U23 squads.

No meltdown from me but, TBF, if I was going to meltdown a f**king 0-6 hosing at home would probably be the catalyst for it.

 

What decent players has he let go? Gavin Reilly maybe? We shipped five goals to Partick thistle last season in a competitive match, a much worse team than Sunderland, and many people were claiming Reilly wasn't good enough for championship football and crying about the fact we didn't get Rory Loy. Perhaps it's worth giving players a chance....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, djchapsticks said:

At this point in proceedings and looking at the current squad, he shouldn't be bringing anyone in, on trial or otherwise, who isn't a ready made first team footballer. 

We have literally no space left for squad players. Guys like the three yesterday (a guy who hasn't played consistently at any decent level for 4 years, an overweight league 2 journeyman and a 24 year old with about 20 senior games under his belt)  shouldn't even be entertained as possibilities. 

The posts prematch from folks who had googled Martin Paterson and those watching the warm up turned out to be spot on. Sometimes a google search can be your friend - showing you that Martin Paterson's last season where he stayed with 1 club and scored more than 10 league goals in that season was 10 years ago. Nobody who had googled him thought it was going to end with him being signed and turning out to have a wonderful season for us. Could have been a great time to let is see what Cody Cooke is made of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

At this point in proceedings and looking at the current squad, he shouldn't be bringing anyone in, on trial or otherwise, who isn't a ready made first team footballer. 

We have literally no space left for squad players who might just come good eventually. Guys like the three yesterday (a guy who hasn't played consistently at any decent level for 4 years, an overweight league 2 journeyman and a 24 year old with about 20 senior games under his belt)  shouldn't even be entertained as possibilities. 

Well in that case we shouldn't bring in any trialists ever. If a guy is a ready made first team footballer he wouldn't need a trial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, norman said:

Well in that case we shouldn't bring in any trialists ever. If a guy is a ready made first team footballer he wouldn't need a trial.

Agreed. I said as much yesterday.

The internet and the rise of the information age and agents putting data out there in the last two decades means that almost all the information you need on a player we should be in the market for is readily available to clubs of our size. The only trials given out to players by clubs like ours should be purely to prove fitness rather than to assess ability.

Trials are still relevant to clubs in League 2 and the likes who are regularly taking on Amateurs and Juniors who might not have any sort of profile in the game but at our level, one look at someone's history will in the vast majority of cases, be a pretty good indicator of whether they are going to be an asset or not.

The three guys from yesterday all looked pretty cut and dried to me once we found out names and took a look at their respective recent histories.

Do you ever wonder why trialists are now by and large a thing of the past at the top levels of football? Because clubs simply don't have to have them anymore.

Edited by djchapsticks
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 

 


Really? Listen, even if you happened to run more in a wide position than a more central one (you don’t, BTW) why would you imbalance your team just to improve someone’s fitness? It’s the f**king 21st Century. Sports Science has surely evolved beyond that?emoji23.png

 

There was  a trialist playing in his normal position, so we should have just gave him Danny a pill and sent him home then, :lol:  because it was the only game that Stubbs had where the result didn't really matter, if it did trialists wouldn't have played,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What decent players has he let go? Gavin Reilly maybe? We shipped five goals to Partick thistle last season in a competitive match, a much worse team than Sunderland, and many people were claiming Reilly wasn't good enough for championship football and crying about the fact we didn't get Rory Loy. Perhaps it's worth giving players a chance....


In addition to Reilly, he’s told MacKenzie, Eckersley and McShane they can leave. Hippolyte has also been let go despite the fact we have no width or pace in the current team.

I’m not saying the new guys won’t get a chance or my support but Saturday should have been one of those opportunities rather than bringing in 3 trialists who were obviously not at the standard required.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Norman, plenty of folks want Stubbs to do well and see out his contract on the basis he has 3 good seasons with us. We're allowed an opinion on the 3 games so far. There was no outcry about people posting their snap judgments after just 1 game against Killie to go on. 10 days ago people were beginning to believe that Stubbs had unearthed some gems and we might be on course to finish top 6.

I suspect in fairness to Stubbs that some of his signing policy has always hinged on landing some promising young players from big clubs near the end of the transfer window. He's probably not overly bothered about the league cup group stages or first few games of the league season.

At the moment all we can go on is who he has got deals completed for - and so far it is all punts on guys stepping up to first team full time football. We're used to gambling on those kind of transfers. What we are not used to is it being our one string to our bow when it comes to transfer policy. And saying we missed out on Stokes doesn't improve matters - he was expected to travel to La Manga and didn't turn up and we were apparently still trying to sign him despite the no-show for pre-season training.

If you want to argue the toss about fielding trialists (who usually don't end up getting signed anyway) in the friendly against Sunderland, why didn't he use the game to get more game time for Josh Heaton, Cody Cooke, Jeff King etc?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Norman, plenty of folks want Stubbs to do well and see out his contract on the basis he has 3 good seasons with us. We're allowed an opinion on the 3 games so far. There was no outcry about people posting their snap judgments after just 1 game against Killie to go on. 10 days ago people were beginning to believe that Stubbs had unearthed some gems and we might be on course to finish top 6.

I suspect in fairness to Stubbs that some of his signing policy has always hinged on landing some promising young players from big clubs near the end of the transfer window. He's probably not overly bothered about the league cup group stages or first few games of the league season.

At the moment all we can go on is who he has got deals completed for - and so far it is all punts on guys stepping up to first team full time football. We're used to gambling on those kind of transfers. What we are not used to is it being our one string to our bow when it comes to transfer policy. And saying we missed out on Stokes doesn't improve matters - he was expected to travel to La Manga and didn't turn up and we were apparently still trying to sign him despite the no-show for pre-season training.

If you want to argue the toss about fielding trialists (who usually don't end up getting signed anyway) in the friendly against Sunderland, why didn't he use the game to get more game time for Josh Heaton, Cody Cooke, Jeff King etc?

Because, whether you like it or not, that's what he's going to use the league cup games for. The Sunderland game was the only chance he had to feild trialists after the Bolton game was canned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty sure trialists are allowed in the group stages of the league cup. Stubbs said before the Killie game he thought it was too early to field a lot of his own signings who were still adjusting to full time / first team football - who says we will see much of Josh Heaton, Cole Kpekawa, Jeff King, Cody Cooke over the next couple of games.. we are now looking comfortable to finish ahead of The Spartans in the group - but given the lack of goals from open play it's maybe presumptuous to say we'll beat Dumbarton and Queen's Park and finish on 10 points and win or finish 2nd. If Stubbs is cautious about throwing Heaton etc in against Dumbarton and Queen's Park at this stage it doesn't augur all that well for him having confidence to field them against Rangers at Ibrox in less than 3 weeks time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. I said as much yesterday.
The internet and the rise of the information age and agents putting data out there in the last two decades means that almost all the information you need on a player we should be in the market for is readily available to clubs of our size. The only trials given out to players by clubs like ours should be purely to prove fitness rather than to assess ability.
Trials are still relevant to clubs in League 2 and the likes who are regularly taking on Amateurs and Juniors who might not have any sort of profile in the game but at our level, one look at someone's history will in the vast majority of cases, be a pretty good indicator of whether they are going to be an asset or not.
The three guys from yesterday all looked pretty cut and dried to me once we found out names and took a look at their respective recent histories.
Do you ever wonder why trialists are now by and large a thing of the past at the top levels of football? Because clubs simply don't have to have them anymore.

So by that judgment on the midfielder he played 25 games for a team that finished about 20 points above a team that harry Davis is now with.

Would you not have liked Harry Davis to have stayed with us or now he has a league 2 team on his history means he’s no longer good enough for us?

Trailists will always be relevant to teams that scour the free agent market that haven’t got the money to spend on big wages and transfer fees so that includes us.

Playing them in friendlies does zero harm.

Is concerning the standard of signings so far but will just need to wait and see what else Stubbs brings in too much over the top negativity on the forum at the moment.

We had 1 good performance and 1 really poor performance 1 decent goal scorer in and we’d of won both they games with the chances we created I don’t give a shit about a friendly result.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:


So by that judgment on the midfielder he played 25 games for a team that finished about 20 points above a team that harry Davis is now with.

Would you not have liked Harry Davis to have stayed with us or now he has a league 2 team on his history means he’s no longer good enough for us?
 

That's like saying we beat team A and team A beat team B, so we must be able to beat team B as well. 

Harry Davis signed for us as Crewe captain with over 200 games for one club under his belt - he'd also not been playing English L2 at that point. This big guy from yesterday has habitually spent one season and been punted on to the next club whereas Davis was an asset his club wanted to hold onto until the falling out. There is a clear difference between the two.

I'm not saying we shouldn't consider league two players, I'm saying we shouldn't be considering quite obviously shite league two players. For example, Scott Cuthbert has made a decent career in League Two. I'd like Scott Cuthbert because teams at that level generally want to keep hold of him as he's quite good. If a guy is playing one season at a club and being released time and time again, he's generally not going to be performing well enough at league two level that none of these clubs want to keep him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...