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St. Mirren v Sunderland, friendly 21/7/18


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An observation that was quite damning based on a 2 minute (no idea of the time) snippet?  
I don't bother with managers interviews Drew, didn't get the whole slabbering over Ross last season, what happens on the pitch is all that I worry about and, yes, yesterday was disappointing.
I've already pointed out the reactions on last seasons pumping at Partick, don't think it had a massive bearing on our season.
This season was always going to be difficult, with Ross or without him.


I actually agree with Drew on this. The interview was really poor. It was all the players fault was the message I heard. No personal accountability for team selection, tactics, playing guys out of position or f**king appalling triallists. The players gave up did they? I think I saw him off his arse twice looking to influence the game.

Everything a leader does impacts the morale and performance of their people whatever the environment. I’ve no idea what the mood in the camp is but I’d imagine there may be a little resentment simmering from the way popular players have been cast aside and I also think here’s more than a chance players will not react well to being thrown under a bus at the first sign of trouble.

FWIW, outside of McGinn and Coulson we were rank rotten yesterday IMO but the supporting cast was beyond poor and Stubbs pulled this together.

As the club appointed interviewer Jimbo gave Stubbs an easy ride. He’s lucky one of us weren’t asking the questions.

“Marquee Signings”? [emoji848]
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20 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

 

I've already pointed out the reactions on last seasons pumping at Partick, don't think it had a massive bearing on our season.

 

 

 

I've seen quite a few referring to the Partick defeat last year. Only four of the starters in that game were regulars in the team later in the season , so on that basis , if Stubbs can bring in 7  new players to do the business we'll be ok !

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Dumbarton will sit in , we'll struggle to beat them with what we have currently at our disposal. Dundee will bully us and embarrass us on flag day . I'm glad I'm away on hols after that so will miss TRFC , because I dread to think of the outcome in that one !


That’s how I see it based on current form and personnel unfortunately.
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18 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

An observation that was quite damning based on a 2 minute (no idea of the time) snippet?  

I don't bother with managers interviews Drew, didn't get the whole slabbering over Ross last season, what happens on the pitch is all that I worry about and, yes, yesterday was disappointing.

I've already pointed out the reactions on last seasons pumping at Partick, don't think it had a massive bearing on our season.

This season was always going to be difficult, with Ross or without him.

 

 

I think the interviews can often serve as a barometer in terms of the general atmosphere around the club.

I won't be reading too much into how Stubbs is coming across, but his demeanour is a bit concerning just now. Within the space of little over a week he has gone from bumming about marquee signings, to being hopeful (whilst not looking it) about bringing a couple in.

He doesn't strike me as a man at ease with how things are going just now, but, more worryingly, the interview yesterday suggests - for me, at any rate - that he isn't sufficiently clued up as to how to address the current glaring deficiencies.

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The Sevco match may be moved to the Sunday if they are jammy enough to be still in Europe.

That will make it the 40th anniversary when we beat Dodo FC ( 1873 -2012 ) at the same venue on the glorious twelfth.

I witnessed Robert Torrance scoring the while I sat in the Main Stand.

Indeed glorious.

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6 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 


Everything a leader does impacts the morale and performance of their people whatever the environment. I’ve no idea what the mood in the camp is but I’d imagine there may be a little resentment simmering from the way popular players have been cast aside and I also think here’s more than a chance players will not react well to being thrown under a bus at the first sign of trouble.

 

 

Remind me, what did Ross do at every transfer window?

 

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9 minutes ago, shull said:

Although, I do believe we will beat Queens Park and Dumbarton then start our League campaign with a bang by humping Dundee.

 

Well, yes, here's hoping. A humping from a much bigger team when we're playing two (shite) trialists doesn't count for much.

If the games had been in the reverse order, with the Killie game yesterday, we'd be pleased with the improvement. Sadly, the reverse is true.

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Just now, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Go on then, list all the popular players from the Ian Murray and Alex Rae eras that Jack Ross cast aside causing anxiety among the fans and the remaining players.

TBH you've been relentless on Stubbs, going to peculiar lengths to try to prove a point.

Anyhow, popular players? :lol:

Ross made changes ate EVERY transfer window, not just when he came in, or doesn't that suit your view? :byebye

It's widely excepted that last season squad wasn't good enough to survive in the top league so changes were required.

Time will tell. 

 

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The main worries I have about Stubbs is he may already have done a fair amount of irreversible damage. He's on a 3 year contract and no doubt Brian Rice and Darren Jackson are too along with guys like Josh Heaton and Code Cooke, his own signings who he hasn't deemed ready to play at premiership level against Killie a week ago as they were still adjusting to the step up. It's obviously too early to say how all the new signings will work out, and you have to say normally if 50% do well that's not a bad average for any manager, and some managers like Jack Ross can prosper by getting key signings right and getting away with loads of punts which don't. What we had going for us was a sense of momentum. Not much was ever made of Jack Ross leading us to the point where we were so far adrift of Ayr United that relegation seemed inevitable, but to give him his due, he wrung the changes, brought in his own players and we went on league winning form and avoided the relegation playoff in the final minutes of the season on goal difference and then kept a similar squad, made a few additions and won the championship pretty comfortably with a squad of players Ross had assembled. Ross had already planned ahead for this season and made decisions about not renewing contracts for the likes of Stellious, taking the view that he wasn't likely to make the step up to premiership and do well. One of the key factors in our 18 month run of good results and performances was morale and togetherness throughout the squad. When I speak about irreversible damage I think Stubbs has shattered the momentum, and morale and togetherness in a matter of weeks. I have some sympathy with those who say its Reilly's own fault the contract offer was taken off the table and he had long enough to consider the offer and sign up. I can imagine however, that some of his teammates would still feel a bit let down about how it was handled. And then without having seen any of the players in a competitive match, after 1 week at La Manga Stubbs tells 4 other players they can find other clubs, including MacKenzie who had signed a new contract less than a week earlier. If Stubbs was seen to be bringing in quality signings and making progress on completing the rest of the squad, I have no doubt the players from last year and supporters would be a lot more philosophical about Reilly, MacKenzie, Eckersley, Stewart, McShane and Hippolyte all being allowed to go or told to find new clubs. Stubbs' problem at the moment is he looks as if he has realised that some of his own signings (and Jack Ross's 2 summer signings as well) might not be good enough for the premiership or even to replace the players he has axed. He sounds like a man depending on the sale of John McGinn to have a budget to bring in 2 or 3 (but more likely 1 or 0) quality signings.  I said before the Killie game I didn't think our recruitment was going to plan - there was little evidence that Jack Ross & James Fowler's months of planning to bring in signing targets was bearing fruit by the time they moved. Stubbs also seemed to have pinned some of his hopes on landing Stokes (a massive gamble with a no doubt considerable part of our budget) and possibly Adam Rooney (how did he think we could compete with Aberdeen and Motherwell for his wages nevermind Salford United). Without those marquee signings he has seemed bereft of any ideas if yesterday's trialists are anything to go by. The post match interview seemed to flag up there are no deals close to being done yet for anyone else and Stubbs was reduced to hoping we could get more bodies in before the league starts. I thought it was noticeable he didn't ask for patience from the fans, or say the players were doing well in training. Another worry from the last week is that he seems quite happy to play Danny Mullen and Cammy Smith out of position to allow tralists or his own signings to start in their favoured positions.

I'm not sure how it would work out if 2 weeks after telling MacKenzie and Eckersley they can find new clubs if he reversed that decision - would those players believe they now had his confidence or would it be a sign that Stubbs judgment has been questionable?

Edited by Dibbles old paperboy
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Of course you can read a lot in to interviews, body language etc.  Jack Ross got the best out of many players because he is such a strong communicator and knew how to motivate and build confidence.  He believed strongly in the collective and understood how important building a bond between players and supporters was to allow the players to play with confidence.  He was also able to separate feelings - which were very negative during the initial bad run - from objective analysis of what had gone well / badly and what needs to be improved.  This was particularly important at bad times to make it understood that management and players were feeling the same way as supporters, and to then show there was is a plan in place for improvement which he was confident would work.

I've seen this use of "they / them" for the players from managers like John Hughes, Alex Rae and Gary Naysmith when they are struggling.  It didn't help them much.

Thus far all we have got out of Stubbs is "first we worked on defence, now we should look at attack" and "they aren't good enough, hopefully we might get some new players in".  He looks very worried.  I really hope the board are going to call him in to address the issue of recruitment, there needs to be a dramatic change of plan starting Monday.

Edited by Kemp
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55 minutes ago, billyg said:

I've seen quite a few referring to the Partick defeat last year. Only four of the starters in that game were regulars in the team later in the season , so on that basis , if Stubbs can bring in 7  new players to do the business we'll be ok !

It worries me we are relying on the McGinn transfer which might never happen. 

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4 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Of course you can read a lot in to interviews, body language etc.  Jack Ross got the best out of many players because he is such a strong communicator and knew how to motivate and build confidence.  He believed strongly in the collective and understood how important building a bond between players and supporters was to allow the players to play with confidence.  He was also able to separate feelings - which were very negative during the initial bad run - from objective analysis of what had gone well / badly and what needs to be improved.  This was particularly important at bad times so make it understood that management and players were feeling the same way as supporters, and to then show there was is a plan in place for improvement which he was confident would work.

I've seen this use of "they / them" for the players from managers like John Hughes, Alex Rae and Gary Naysmith when they are struggling.  It didn't help them much.

Thus far all we have got out of Stubbs is "first we worked on defence, now we should look at attack" and "they aren't good enough, hopefully we might get some new players in".  He looks very worried.  I really hope the board are going to call him in to address the issue of recruitment, there needs to be a dramatic change of plan starting Monday.

Thought the management gives a list then Fitzpatrick negotiate I'm sure that's how it works. 

Edited by Isle Of Bute Saint
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10 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I'm not sure how it would work out if 2 weeks after telling MacKenzie and Eckersley they can find new clubs if he reversed that decision - would those players believe they now had his confidence or would it be a sign that Stubbs judgment has been questionable?

 

It's unlikely he will back down on this.  Alex Rae could have helped stop the rot by bringing Jim Goodwin back in, he didn't do it because he's a footballing dinosaur that sees "making his mark in the dressing room" as more important.  Stubbs is trying to do the same by playing last season's squad in the wrong position or releasing them.

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Just now, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

It worries me we are relying on the McGinn transfer which might never happen. 

I believe that GLS has already indicated that any money from player transfers would be used to generate additional income streams and not be used on players. And If £75k on an amateur is Stubbs idea of spending money on players I wouln't let him anywhere near the McGinn money.

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1 minute ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Thought the management gives a list then Fitzpatrick negotiate I'm sure that's how it works. 

Ha, I don't mean the day-to-day logistics, Im sure that part is fine.  They need a new f**king list though!!

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1 minute ago, Sonny said:

And If £75k on an amateur is Stubbs idea of spending money on players I wouln't let him anywhere near the McGinn money.

1

Agreed, first and foremost the money needs to be used to safeguard the future of the club and the youth academy.  On his showing so far Stubbs shouldn't be given a penny!

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17 hours ago, buddies1877 said:

Only positive is Stubbs is saying in his interview what the fans are saying knows he badly needs players in.

 

And didn’t hold back in saying that’s the last we will see of they trialists today he will move on to look elsewhere

 

Spoiler

well he wasted several days prep time on the triallists.  Did he not watch any of them train?

What a big man, not holding back on the guys.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Agreed, first and foremost the money needs to be used to safeguard the future of the club and the youth academy.  On his showing so far Stubbs shouldn't be given a penny!

Nearly all of our recent managers have tried to promote one or two of our academy players: Gary Teale gave Morgan his debut and I think also Lewis McLear, Jack Baird, Thomas Reilly, Barry Cuddihy were given runs and by that time McGinn, McAusland, Naismith, Kelly and Mallan were all established. Murray's short tenure saw him stick with Morgan and Mallan regularly and occasionally try out McLear and Cuddihy. Alex Rae handed a debut to McAllister at the age of 16 and got Morgan to extend his contract and regularly played Jack Baird and Mallan. 

Most of those guys and Jack Ross talked up the young guys in the academy and spoke about some exciting prospects coming through. Stubbs hasn't really said too much about our development squads, even on facilities like the stadium and training ground he has probably said more about the improvements needed there rather than those are in good shape for a club of our size and standing in Scottish football.

I did think it was in his favour he gave Kirkpatrick and MacPherson a start at Killie and they did well.

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1 minute ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Nearly all of our recent managers have tried to promote one or two of our academy players: Gary Teale gave Morgan his debut and I think also Lewis McLear, Jack Baird, Thomas Reilly, Barry Cuddihy were given runs and by that time McGinn, McAusland, Naismith, Kelly and Mallan were all established. Murray's short tenure saw him stick with Morgan and Mallan regularly and occasionally try out McLear and Cuddihy. Alex Rae handed a debut to McAllister at the age of 16 and got Morgan to extend his contract and regularly played Jack Baird and Mallan. 

Most of those guys and Jack Ross talked up the young guys in the academy and spoke about some exciting prospects coming through. Stubbs hasn't really said too much about our development squads, even on facilities like the stadium and training ground he has probably said more about the improvements needed there rather than those are in good shape for a club of our size and standing in Scottish football.

I did think it was in his favour he gave Kirkpatrick and MacPherson a start at Killie and they did well.

I'm pretty sure Stubbs making a commitment to bringing through youth is one of the reasons he has got the job.  MacPherson has looked decent so far I would say, much better than I've seen him before.  I don't think there are really any others ready to come out of the academy yet though.

I do always laugh when Rae claims to be the one "that gave Lewis Morgan a new contract".  Its akin to taking credit for playing Leo Messi up front instead of in goals, its a pretty obvious decision to make!

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16 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:
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well he wasted several days prep time on the triallists.  Did he not watch any of them train?

What a big man, not holding back on the guys.

 

Agreed, it seemed pretty cruel if anything to send them out there with no idea what they were doing!

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