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4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

And like the Rae sacking, nothing was lost then either. This board in two short years have the title of wobblers...

remember we used to look at other 'sacking clubs' and ask how the hell they ever expected to get consistency..? Well thats how everyone looks at us now. As i said elsewhere, i really fear for Oran, especially if he's a greed to a swift/cheap termination clause. Will this board give him to January if we continue in thevsame vein???

Oran Kearney is no fool.  He is currently taking a career break from the college.  One Northern Ireland Backstop Agreement that is already in place.  Wise man. 

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I'm sure you were :rolleyes: however we waited until December (giving the new manager time before the January window opened ) before changing the manager and stayed up - it still seems like the correct process to me.
Like I said unless there was an early get out clause that made it beneficial to sack Stubbs early I'd have given him a similar amount of time to Murray.
PS - Glad to see you're on first name terms with Oran! :lol: 
 
 
 
 

Rediculous comparison

There is absolutely no way we could carry the form we did after January in the championship under jack to now if Stubbs was given more time to try make players good enough that can’t even perform against st Johnstone reserves.

It Was the correct decision no matter what to move early and get shot of him with the squad he assembled is no shock we are still struggling we could of appointed pep instead of OK and we would still be in this situation they are managers not magicians OK will be given a lot more time to fix this mess and rightly so.
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10 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:


Rediculous comparison

There is absolutely no way we could carry the form we did after January in the championship under jack to now if Stubbs was given more time to try make players good enough that can’t even perform against st Johnstone reserves.

It Was the correct decision no matter what to move early and get shot of him with the squad he assembled is no shock we are still struggling we could of appointed pep instead of OK and we would still be in this situation they are managers not magicians OK will be given a lot more time to fix this mess and rightly so.

Strange then that the teams that took Killie to a draw, then penalties win, and that beat Dundee were essentially Stubbs Signings..!

what have last season's players achieved so far in the premiership?

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32 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:


Rediculous comparison

There is absolutely no way we could carry the form we did after January in the championship under jack to now if Stubbs was given more time to try make players good enough that can’t even perform against st Johnstone reserves.

It Was the correct decision no matter what to move early and get shot of him with the squad he assembled is no shock we are still struggling we could of appointed pep instead of OK and we would still be in this situation they are managers not magicians OK will be given a lot more time to fix this mess and rightly so.

It was Rae who replaced Murray not Ross, and it worked - we stayed up. :rolleyes:


I'm comparing two managers both appointed during the close season and the appropriate length of time to give them - September was premature (although Stubbs was pretty much a "dead man walking" after the Livi game) especially with a two weak break coming up. 

In a 12 team top flight we're a yo-yo club - I'm not saying Stubbs was blameless but IMO he deserved more time to establish himself like Lennon got in 2010 after "The Summer of 'Beath"!

Edited by Bud the Baker
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Strange then that the teams that took Killie to a draw, then penalties win, and that beat Dundee were essentially Stubbs Signings..!

what have last season's players achieved so far in the premiership?

 

 

Have we just to forget Spartans, Queens Park and Sunderland then?

Stubbs was in charge of 10 games, (one of which was a friendly fixture).

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On 10/8/2018 at 3:08 PM, Bud the Baker said:

Even without the injuries I'm not sure there's any indication that OK knows how to utilize the current squad effectively - I don't reckon there's been a noticeable improvement in results.

 

Unless there was a financial benefit in sacking Stubbsy before the three months were up we would've been as well giving him until the end of November.  

I think if Stubbs had stayed on Kpekawa, Coulson, Jones, Willock, Brock-Madsen would still be the mainstay of the starting XI and we'd have seen last year's players being the ones involved in the selection bingo. If I was to pick some positives from Kearney's first month, we've had decent performances in 50% of his games and looked competitive for the full 90 minutes in them, we've had 1 clean sheet, 3 of his signings look pretty good (Ferdinand, Jackson and Hammill), Jack Baird has gone from being one of the participants in selection bingo to being one of the better players in the last month.

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Strange then that the teams that took Killie to a draw, then penalties win, and that beat Dundee were essentially Stubbs Signings..!
what have last season's players achieved so far in the premiership?

Danny Mullen scored 2 one from an assist from a jack Ross signing and other from a gk mistake.

Killie game was a pre season fixture pretty much.
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28 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:


Danny Mullen scored 2 one from an assist from a jack Ross signing and other from a gk mistake.

Killie game was a pre season fixture pretty much.

One of the remarkable features of the Killie team selection was how few of Stubbs' signings featured in the starting XI. He said at the time most of them needed time to make the transition to this level and 3 months later many of his initial signings still haven't made the transition or looked likely to have a good impact in 2018.

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1 hour ago, Buddie Marvelous said:

 

 

Have we just to forget Spartans, Queens Park and Sunderland then?

Stubbs was in charge of 10 games, (one of which was a friendly fixture).

Your missing the point, this isnt about defending Stubbs, he made his mistakes. This is about the players we have, whose played when, and what impact, or not they have made. And who among them has got what it takes at this level. 

We finished on the downward slope last season, struggled against premier teams, and with most of the same squad we are still struggling.

Ferdinand looks the part, hopefully Jackson too. We might have to wait to see if we get a chance to see what Hammill has to offer. Personally i think if you could build something around those three and Magennis we could become competitive. Add to that we need to see McGinn back at his best. So many others have huge question marks hanging over them regarding can they cut it?

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34 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:


Danny Mullen scored 2 one from an assist from a jack Ross signing and other from a gk mistake.

Killie game was a pre season fixture pretty much.

Somebody's got to make their mind up then?

either the league cup games were what most managers consider pre-season, or... they are the definitive on player and manager performance assessment..? Cant have it both ways. I chose the former,

intresting that Oran has dropped Mullen, and Smith?

Edited by Lord Pityme
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Regardless of what is done between now and January 1st, there will be some ruthless decisions to be made.

This squad needs significant improvement and several of the players are going to make way for others. You can argue that this was exactly what Stubbs was doing but he did so before a ball was kicked and did not replace the players with improvements.

More or less every loan deal apart from Edwards and perhaps Hodson is either a stick on to end or at risk of being cut short. From there, I'd also have several of our own players at risk....mainly Kpekawa, King, Cooke, Kirkpatrick, McShane and even Eckersley, possibly Heaton out on loan too.

From there, I'd build a team around Ferdinand, Baird (who has been impressive with an experience CB beside him), Magennis, Jackson and Hammill if fit. Stephen McGinn also needs to step back and rehab whatever is niggling him fully.

Guys like Flynn, P. McGinn, Hodson, Edwards, Mullen, Smith and the youngsters should all have a place in the squad and a role to play but I'd be actively seeking improvements in each of these positions. Perhaps a little harsh on Paul McGinn and Smith in particular but these guys are good squad players and should still rack up 15-20 appearances a season without issue.

So by my reckoning, there's about 10-12 players in the squad who I think could very realistically be out on their ears in January.

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7 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

From there, I'd build a team around Ferdinand, Baird (who has been impressive with an experience CB beside him), Magennis, Jackson and Hammill if fit. Stephen McGinn also needs to step back and rehab whatever is niggling him fully.

This sounds good, but I think Jackson and Hammill are only tied down until January. We may well lose them if they are on good form.

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This sounds good, but I think Jackson and Hammill are only tied down until January. We may well lose them if they are on good form.
Think there is 'an option' on at least one of them possibly Hammill.

The thing with 'options' is that they don't always mean anything as proven by Harry Davis not playing the required 25 matches for the option to kick in.
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9 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

Regardless of what is done between now and January 1st, there will be some ruthless decisions to be made.

This squad needs significant improvement and several of the players are going to make way for others. You can argue that this was exactly what Stubbs was doing but he did so before a ball was kicked and did not replace the players with improvements.

More or less every loan deal apart from Edwards and perhaps Hodson is either a stick on to end or at risk of being cut short. From there, I'd also have several of our own players at risk....mainly Kpekawa, King, Cooke, Kirkpatrick, McShane and even Eckersley, possibly Heaton out on loan too.

From there, I'd build a team around Ferdinand, Baird (who has been impressive with an experience CB beside him), Magennis, Jackson and Hammill if fit. Stephen McGinn also needs to step back and rehab whatever is niggling him fully.

Guys like Flynn, P. McGinn, Hodson, Edwards, Mullen, Smith and the youngsters should all have a place in the squad and a role to play but I'd be actively seeking improvements in each of these positions. Perhaps a little harsh on Paul McGinn and Smith in particular but these guys are good squad players and should still rack up 15-20 appearances a season without issue.

So by my reckoning, there's about 10-12 players in the squad who I think could very realistically be out on their ears in January.

You could  have quoted ny post and agreed with it! 

Demolition job, then build from ground zero upwards!

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20 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

I'm sure you were :rolleyes:however we waited until December (giving the new manager time before the January window opened ) before changing the manager and stayed up - it still seems like the correct process to me.

Like I said unless there was an early get out clause that made it beneficial to sack Stubbs early I'd have given him a similar amount of time to Murray.

PS - Glad to see you're on first name terms with Oran! :lol: 

We stayed up by the skin of our teeth by getting a very good result on the last game of the season that KEPT US UP on goal difference alone..

It was touch and go...  Why risk that? By giving a failing regime more time - I don't think so....

This league is higher and planning and signing players for this level is not easier for us...

Like you said - you don't know about any clauses in Stubbs contract - it did not matter - He had to go - he was Pi*h  - Look at his diddies who played in the reserve league and got cuffed 3  v 0  - but you would have stuck by him - no chance we would be on 4 points and he would be planning to offload our better players in January...

Edited by Sweeper07
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7 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Watch Oran’s Interviews, Brocken hand will be out for a good few weeks. 

Is that Brock-Madsen and him will be out for a few good weeks?

or

Mullen has a "Broken Hand" and will be out for a few good weeks..?

if its the latter.. Hmmm? Most players play with a light cast/banadge with a hand/face injury!

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