Soctty Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 We can only assess how much of a gamble each signing is if we know the same about each signing, and even then the assessment of how much of a gamble each signing will be is wholly dependent on our own individual opinions on each player. It's perfectly reasonable for people to say Heaton is a huge gamble, but that opinion doesn't hold as much weight as the opinion of the manager who oversaw him for a five day intense trial, against 41 other players all busting a gut to impress. It's also reasonable to say Halkett is as much of a gamble given he's never played at Premiership level in Scotland, although this can be tempered by those who have seen him play over the four games we played against Livingston last season. To sum up, the assessment of how much of a gamble each player will be is completely subjective, and will be different for each person, dependent on how much they know about a player, how much they have seen of the player, and how much they trust the manager's judgement. If Jack Ross had signed Heaton, many would be less nervous about the signing given Jack's record in the transfer market for the club. Is it the weekend yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Indeed. But we were never going to pay a transfer fee for an out of contract Halkett. £75k over 3 years is less than £500 per week. In comparison to a wage its nothing. Its trivial. Its a gamble I'm happy to see us take rather than signing the same old never has beens / never will be's like Halkett! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, zico said: £75k over 3 years is less than £500 per week. In comparison to a wage its nothing. Its trivial. Its a gamble I'm happy to see us take rather than signing the same old never has beens / never will be's like Halkett! On a player you've never seen in action! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, zico said: £75k over 3 years is less than £500 per week. In comparison to a wage its nothing. Its trivial. Its a gamble I'm happy to see us take rather than signing the same old never has beens / never will be's like Halkett! Could be suggested that Halkett's salary will be a good bit higher than Heaton's, him coming from the National League, but that's pure supposition with no evidence, as most of the variable in this conversation are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Soctty said: Could be suggested that Halkett's salary will be a good bit higher than Heaton's, him coming from the National League, but that's pure supposition with no evidence, as most of the variable in this conversation are... I'd say that a £75k transfer fee (our biggest since Bosman) and a three year deal (when was the last one we handed out to a senior player?) would suggest otherwise, but that's just my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said: I'd say that a £75k transfer fee (our biggest since Bosman) and a three year deal (when was the last one we handed out to a senior player?) would suggest otherwise, but that's just my guess. Indeed - a guess on both our parts. £75k isn't a huge fee regardless of our business over the last 25 years or so, and wouldn't prompt me to think we're paying him a huge wedge. On the other hand, I'd imagine that, given the interest there would have bee in Halkett, Livi would have had to give him a sizeable pay rise. But it's all pie in the sky. God I'll be pleased when the football starts again, and we can actually assess the player on performance rather than the paltry details we have to go on right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 30 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: On a player you've never seen in action! But it doesn't matter if I've seen him in action! I'm not the manager! Putting it into perspective, £500 per week is probably less than the wages we were paying either Kirkpatrick, Todd, Hilson or Stewart. They were far bigger gambles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, Soctty said: £75k isn't a huge fee regardless of our business over the last 25 years or so, Indeed. And its probably less than the wages we spent on Kirkpatrick, Stewart, Todd, Hilson, Buchanan & Donati! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, zico said: But it doesn't matter if I've seen him in action! I'm not the manager! Putting it into perspective, £500 per week is probably less than the wages we were paying either Kirkpatrick, Todd, Hilson or Stewart. They were far bigger gambles! None of the above are/were on three year deals so £500 per week isn't an appropriate comparison. ****************************** These were the average top flight players wages last season according to the Daily Record (which have already been posted on the site) - so for Heaton's transfer fee we could have got an extra Bottom 6 standard player for what will be a tough season. Quote Celtic £14,135Rangers £6,338Aberdeen £2,623Hearts £1,837Hibs £1,676Dundee £1,152Thistle £1,119Ross County £1,085Killie £1,060St Johnstone £923Motherwell £820Accies £798 Edited June 27, 2018 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: None of the above are/were on three year deals so £500 per week isn't an appropriate comparison. ****************************** These were the average top flight players wages last season according to the Daily Record - so for Heaton's transfer fee we could have got an extra Bottom 6 standard player for what will be a tough season. No, but the combined wage for just the one season for that lot would have been more than £75k! I'd rather we signed quality than stacking the squad with rubbish who don't play. Those wages you've quoted will be for all staff employed by the club's, not just the players. Yet again, you've gone to a lot of effort to post something that is completely irrelevant! If an extra £500 per week gets us a better quality of player than Kirkpatrick, Todd, Hilson, Stewart & Darryl Duffy then that will do for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 19 hours ago, Julian Banjos said: Surprised to see Connor O'Keefe is with the squad in La Manga. He was released by JR at the end of the season. I guess he's there as a trialist. Connor was re-signed. Lots of promise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, zico said: No, but the combined wage for just the one season for that lot would have been more than £75k! I'd rather we signed quality than stacking the squad with rubbish who don't play. Those wages you've quoted will be for all staff employed by the club's, not just the players. Yet again, you've gone to a lot of effort to post something that is completely irrelevant! If an extra £500 per week gets us a better quality of player than Kirkpatrick, Todd, Hilson, Stewart & Darryl Duffy then that will do for me! Quote The Parkhead club pays its first-team players an average wage of £717,860 per year, according to Sporting Intelligence's Global Sports Salaries Survey. 2016 - The Herald WRONG! We could easily get a Bottom 6 player for a year on the Heaton transfer fee. Edited June 27, 2018 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: WRONG! deary me, are you seriously quoting a newspaper, quoting a survey, quoting a report & accounts and using that as your evidence? !! Posting wrong in big red letters regarding something you are wrong about is quality! Celtic aren't a bottom 6 club either, so its irrelevant to your point! Doubly irrelevant and doubly wrong! Can you make it a treble? Edited June 27, 2018 by zico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, zico said: deary me, are you seriously quoting a newspaper, quoting a survey, quoting a report & accounts and using that as your evidence? !! Posting wrong in big red letters regarding something you are wrong about is quality! Celtic aren't a bottom 6 club either, so its irrelevant to your point! Doubly irrelevant and doubly wrong! Can you make it a treble? All you've offered comes from the inside of your troubled head! As for the Celtic point - easily sorted! Quote 7 Motherwell (£49,335) 8 Kilmarnock (£48,950) 9 Ross County (£47,515) 10 St Johnstone (£47,206) 11 Partick Thistle (£42,671) 12 Hamilton (£42,606) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: As for the Celtic point - easily sorted! So you've now withdrawn your quote of a quote of a quote "evidence" that the figures aren't for all members of staff.... And then reposted the figures just for the bottom six.... even though they are irrelevant and wrong! The treble is complete! Anyways, I'd still rather we spent an extra £500 per week on someone the manager thinks will be quality rather than signing up the likes of Kirkpatrick, Stewart, Hilson, Todd & Darryl Duffy as you seem to favour! Edited June 27, 2018 by zico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just now, zico said: So you've now withdrawn your quote of a quote of a quote "evidence" that the figures aren't for all members of staff.... And then reposted the irrelevant and wrong figures just for the bottom six.... The treble is complete! No, the Celtic figure came from the opening paragraph - the figures for the Bottom 6 came from a table at the bottom of the article. Feel free to carry on with your ostrich impression. **************** Bottom line is we could easily have got 2 proven Bottom 6 players on 2 year contracts for the money we're gambling on Heaton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: No, the Celtic figure came from the opening paragraph - the figures for the Bottom 6 came from a table at the bottom of the article. Feel free to carry on with your ostrich impression. **************** Bottom line is we could easily have got 2 proven Bottom 6 players on 2 year contracts for the money we're gambling on Heaton. The Celtic figure is irrelevant, they are neither bottom 6 (which is what your point is about) nor is the figure just for their player's! The line about it being the player's wages is a made up line that could have been made anywhere down the line of the quote of the quote of the quote! "a proven bottom 6 player" = Andy Dow I'd rather we didn't gamble on signing 2 Andy Dows on 2 year contracts thank you! The personal insults that you feel you need to add to every post you make just highlight that I'm right and you are wrong. As always. Edited June 27, 2018 by zico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 Indeed, Andy Dow had played for the likes of Chelsea, Dundee, Hibernian, Aberdeen & Motherwell and was still only 29 when he joined St. Mirren. Based on BTB's logic, we could have made the assumption that Andy Dow would have been a raging success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, zico said: The Celtic figure is irrelevant, they are neither bottom 6 (which is what your point is about) nor is the figure just for their player's! The line about it being the player's wages is a made up line that could have been made anywhere down the line of the quote of the quote of the quote! "a proven bottom 6 player" = Andy Dow I'd rather we didn't gamble on signing 2 Andy Dows on 2 year contracts thank you! The personal insults that you feel you need to add to every post you make just highlight that I'm right and you are wrong. As always. As always - Mark Reid. What's a smiley if not a personal insult? I'm sure you used to criticize farawaysaint for using them - or was that somebody else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Soctty said: If Jack Ross had signed Heaton, many would be less nervous about the signing given Jack's record in the transfer market for the club. At Championship level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: As always - Mark Reid. What's a smiley if not a personal insult? I'm sure you used to criticize farawaysaint for using them - or was that somebody else? You want us to sign a couple of Andy Dow's! Don't think any smiley I've posted is a personal insult! Faraway used to fill his posts with smiley's cos he wasn't able to make his point. You just fill your posts with irrelevant and wrong numbers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, zico said: Indeed, Andy Dow had played for the likes of Chelsea, Dundee, Hibernian, Aberdeen & Motherwell and was still only 29 when he joined St. Mirren. Based on BTB's logic, we could have made the assumption that Andy Dow would have been a raging success! Andy Dow played 9 league games for Motherwell the season before we signed him - I would've questioned whether he was still a proven top flight player. Edited June 27, 2018 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just now, Bud the Baker said: Andy Dow played 9 games for Motherwell the season before we signed him - I would've questioned whether he was still a proven top flight player. If he'd played every game then they he wouldn't have been joining us! 176 league games with Dundee, Chelsea, Hibs, Aberdeen & Motherwell and 29 years old. THAT is exactly the type of player that you are advocating we sign on 2 year contracts! No thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, zico said: If he'd played every game then they he wouldn't have been joining us! My Point. 176 league games with Dundee, Chelsea, Hibs, Aberdeen & Motherwell and 29 years old. THAT is exactly the type of player that you are advocating we sign on 2 year contracts! No thanks! No it's not. Edited June 27, 2018 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: No it's not. A player with his sort of background is exactly what you want us to sign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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