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What happens if we raise the funds early?

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A question for SMiSA if I may.

Having successfully paid off the £380K to the previous board, well ahead of schedule, we now start saving to pay back the £615K due to Gordon.

With membership well over what was projected in the project plan it stands to reason that, assuming membership stays at broadly the same level, we will have that £615K raised within say the next 4 years.

That would bring us to 2022 but the general agreement with Gordon was for handover and completion in 2026.

So, if we DO raise enough by 2022, does the deal go through early, or do we keep saving for a contingency fund, and if so for how long?

Interested to know if this has been thought about and if so what the plan would be?

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Without knowing the amount of each member its hard to make a guess when we can afford to pay it off 

Take it your 4 years figure is based on it took us 2 years to pay off £380k we need to have just under double that to pay off Gordon so will take double the time.

Think it will actually take longer as there are people who paid £2,500 up front and wont be paying in again so there money would of paid off the old board quickly and wont go towards GS

For example if there's 20 then that's £50k that would of been there to start with or 5 months worth of 1000 x £10 

 

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2 minutes ago, Suggestion said:

Without knowing the amount of each member its hard to make a guess when we can afford to pay it off 

Take it your 4 years figure is based on it took us 2 years to pay off £380k we need to have just under double that to pay off Gordon so will take double the time.

Think it will actually take longer as there are people who paid £2,500 up front and wont be paying in again so there money would of paid off the old board quickly and wont go towards GS

For example if there's 20 then that's £50k that would of been there to start with or 5 months worth of 1000 x £10 

 

Yes, purely guessing on the actual time, but either way the 2026 date was based on their being 1000 members and we've got 25% more than that so in theory the date should come in by a couple of years at least.

Personally I'd be happy to keep saving, to build up a contingency fund, but for how long, and at what rate I guess would be the question?!

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1 minute ago, div said:

Yes, purely guessing on the actual time, but either way the 2026 date was based on their being 1000 members and we've got 25% more than that so in theory the date should come in by a couple of years at least.

Personally I'd be happy to keep saving, to build up a contingency fund, but for how long, and at what rate I guess would be the question?!

I think Gordon Scott was quoted somewhere saying he would be here for the 10 years and maybe even longer " as a business man"  can't find it anywhere but think it was along the lines of him having the 51% until we buy the full amount off him ( We could probs buy the 15%+ percent required to have total ownership this year) but think he wants to be in control untill we buy the full amount and even after would still like to be involved.

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13 minutes ago, Suggestion said:

I think Gordon Scott was quoted somewhere saying he would be here for the 10 years and maybe even longer " as a business man"  can't find it anywhere but think it was along the lines of him having the 51% until we buy the full amount off him ( We could probs buy the 15%+ percent required to have total ownership this year) but think he wants to be in control untill we buy the full amount and even after would still like to be involved.

Yeah, my question was more about when we raise the full £615K to buy all of the shares. It's not going to take us till 2026 at the current rate.

Personally speaking I'd be more than happy for Gordon to see out the whole 10 years, and possibly even staying on after the transaction as someone with over a decade of experience of being in the boardroom and running a football club is going to be someone you want to keep hold of IMO!

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54 minutes ago, div said:

Yes, purely guessing on the actual time, but either way the 2026 date was based on their being 1000 members and we've got 25% more than that so in theory the date should come in by a couple of years at least.

Personally I'd be happy to keep saving, to build up a contingency fund, but for how long, and at what rate I guess would be the question?!

I personally would be happy to keep paying forever more (I know many wouldn't) but would be so beneficial if we had say 300-500 members keeping paying £12/ £25 a month and continued with quarterley votes. 

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11 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I personally would be happy to keep paying forever more (I know many wouldn't) but would be so beneficial if we had say 300-500 members keeping paying £12/ £25 a month and continued with quarterley votes. 

Yeah I'd also be happy keeping the contributions going beyond whenever the deal is finalised. It can surely only make the club stronger. 

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3 hours ago, div said:

A question for SMiSA if I may.

Having successfully paid off the £380K to the previous board, well ahead of schedule, we now start saving to pay back the £615K due to Gordon.

With membership well over what was projected in the project plan it stands to reason that, assuming membership stays at broadly the same level, we will have that £615K raised within say the next 4 years.

That would bring us to 2022 but the general agreement with Gordon was for handover and completion in 2026.

So, if we DO raise enough by 2022, does the deal go through early, or do we keep saving for a contingency fund, and if so for how long?

Interested to know if this has been thought about and if so what the plan would be?

Obviously in a completely unofficial capacity, and in peace, Gordon can sell (if he wishes) to Smisa any amount of the new shares he wishes as part of the agreement now to Smisa, or at any point. He is only obliged to offer them all at July 2026. So in theory Smisa could instead of spending £50k on the astroturf have instead £50k in the pot to buy a chunk more shares now the consortium are paid up.

when smisa have the required funds £615k in the bank (in addition to any other funds they hold like £2 pot etc) then they have to make Gordon an offer at that point. Caveat to this is Gordon has made it clear he wants to be there for at least ten years. Again i suppose it depends what the world looks like for both parties at that point if it comes before 2026.

i might as a fan owner like it to happen like that, but as a business person i cant see why he would want to dilute his shareholding and influence at this point unless Smisa, or a.n. Other in conjunction with smisa, or a.n. Other approved by smisa & Gordon wanted to buy a slice of shares and invest in the club?

to carry on saving for a contingency or whatever name of fund above and beyond would require a brand new proposal from smisa to the members & support. I guess we would want to know what the world looked like at that time before committing to a future fund?

Edited by Lord Pityme

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6 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Obviously in a completely unofficial capacity, and in peace, Gordon can sell (if he wishes) to Smisa any amount of the new shares he wishes as part of the agreement now to Smisa, or at any point. He is only obliged to offer them all at July 2026. So in theory Smisa could instead of spending £50k on the astroturf have instead £50k in the pot to buy a chunk more shares now the consortium are paid up.

when smisa have the required funds £615k in the bank (in addition to any other funds they hold like £2 pot etc) then they have to make Gordon an offer at that point. Caveat to this is Gordon has made it clear he wants to be there for at least ten years. Again i suppose it depends what the world looks like for both parties at that point if it comes before 2026.

i might as a fan owner like it to happen like that, but as a business person i cant see why he would want to dilute his shareholding and influence at this point unless Smisa, or a.n. Other in conjunction with smisa, or a.n. Other approved by smisa & Gordon wanted to buy a slice of shares and invest in the club?

to carry on saving for a contingency or whatever name of fund above and beyond would require a brand new proposal from smisa to the members & support. I guess we would want to know what the world looked like at that time before committing to a future fund?

More or less this. We can offer to buy when we have ALL the funds available (don't think we can just buy some of the total amount, has to be all.) I did raise the question once on the understanding that we could buy when we had the funds, i was then advised there is a clause which states Gordon can if he wishes keep control until the 10 years are up and then sell.

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10 hours ago, buddiecat said:

More or less this. We can offer to buy when we have ALL the funds available (don't think we can just buy some of the total amount, has to be all.) I did raise the question once on the understanding that we could buy when we had the funds, i was then advised there is a clause which states Gordon can if he wishes keep control until the 10 years are up and then sell.

I suppose my question would be why would he want to wait the full 10 years? If he’s not making any money of the shares, not taking a profit and not taking a wage from St Mirren, surely he’d want the money ASAP. 

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6 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I suppose my question would be why would he want to wait the full 10 years? If he’s not making any money of the shares, not taking a profit and not taking a wage from St Mirren, surely he’d want the money ASAP. 

Maybe he likes the blazer? 

All i can tell you is he has expressed on several occasions he envisages being in situ for ten years minimum.

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10 hours ago, buddiecat said:

More or less this. We can offer to buy when we have ALL the funds available (don't think we can just buy some of the total amount, has to be all.) I did raise the question once on the understanding that we could buy when we had the funds, i was then advised there is a clause which states Gordon can if he wishes keep control until the 10 years are up and then sell.

In the agreement with smisa, smisa are bound to offer to buy Gordon's new shares when they have a surplus in the joint account (which is expressly for buying the controlling interest) in excess of £615k. So in theory we could takeover sooner, but as said Gordon wants a ten year stint at least. So i would assume smisa will have to come to the membership when it has in excess of £615k in the account to ask what the membership (who would become the new owners of SMFC) what do YOU want to do? As YOU now hold sway!

i am sure there will be a charm offensive in the lead up to amassing the £615 k trying to convince the membership to stick with the status quo. But that is a helluva long time in football, and as we know there's nowt as fickle as football fans.

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Maybe he likes the blazer? 

All i can tell you is he has expressed on several occasions he envisages being in situ for ten years minimum.

In all honesty I’d be fine with this. In the grand scheme it’s very short-term. If fans are willing to pay until the end of the 10 years it’ll give us a nice wee fund over the price to do with as we vote. 

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1,264 paying members, would be good to know how many are paying £25 but I vaguely remember a  communication saying around 12% does anyone have the details? 

If it was then we’d be generating in the region of £17,131 p/m 

£205,572 p/a 

If my maths are right £615k raised in just under three years. How good would that be? Imagine how much better if we signed up another couple hundred members? 

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7 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

1,264 paying members, would be good to know how many are paying £25 but I vaguely remember a  communication saying around 12% does anyone have the details? 

If it was then we’d be generating in the region of £17,131 p/m 

£205,572 p/a 

If my maths are right £615k raised in just under three years. How good would that be? Imagine how much better if we signed up another couple hundred members? 

Was about 100 £25 members, but i know that will have changed a bit as some will have stopped and others dropped to £12.

of course with the club getting £50k for the astroturfing, and .£50k funding facility so far..! That kicks the can of fan ownership further down the road every time they dip into the (cough, cough) ringfenced funds.

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5 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Was about 100 £25 members, but i know that will have changed a bit as some will have stopped and others dropped to £12.

of course with the club getting £50k for the astroturfing, and .£50k funding facility so far..! That kicks the can of fan ownership further down the road every time they dip into the (cough, cough) ringfenced funds.

Not if it’s set to be repaid within 30 months as stated. The £50k doesn’t add any time to the current target date. If member numbers increased enough to pay off within 30 months then the £2 contributions would also rise enough to I'm sure replace the £50k sooner.  

100 seems a bit low but even if that’s what it is it’s still roughly three years, maybe just over... still by then the £50k will be paid back. 

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On Monday, July 02, 2018 at 11:55 AM, div said:

A question for SMiSA if I may.

Having successfully paid off the £380K to the previous board, well ahead of schedule, we now start saving to pay back the £615K due to Gordon.

With membership well over what was projected in the project plan it stands to reason that, assuming membership stays at broadly the same level, we will have that £615K raised within say the next 4 years.

That would bring us to 2022 but the general agreement with Gordon was for handover and completion in 2026.

So, if we DO raise enough by 2022, does the deal go through early, or do we keep saving for a contingency fund, and if so for how long?

Interested to know if this has been thought about and if so what the plan would be?

We buy his shares asap, there is NO agreement he stays until 2026

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1 hour ago, waldorf34 said:

We buy his shares asap, there is NO agreement he stays until 2026

Email the SMiSA committee and ask bud, i asked at a meeting and was told he has an option to stay the ten years if he wishes, i was informed there was a clause in the agreement with Gordon which allows this, i could not see the clause and was told it is there,  just may be hard to find/decipher.

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On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:55 AM, div said:

So, if we DO raise enough by 2022, does the deal go through early, or do we keep saving for a contingency fund, and if so for how long?

 

Keep going until we can afford a decent striker. :rolleyes: 

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11 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Was about 100 £25 members, but i know that will have changed a bit as some will have stopped and others dropped to £12.

of course with the club getting £50k for the astroturfing, and .£50k funding facility so far..! That kicks the can of fan ownership further down the road every time they dip into the (cough, cough) ringfenced funds.

There were 149 £25 members, there will have been a drop off - some quit some down to £12 - but i'd guess at probably 135 still paying £25.

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In my opinion it would make sense saving as much as we can to give us a good start when we buy the majority share. We have seen Gordon ask for financial help a few times now which would suggest we are going to need to do the same, that is why we should save money, Get to the amount we need to seal the deal, lock it away until then and lock away any excess until then.

For an example , the astroturf at Ralston could be in need of replacement at the same time as we take over.

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13 hours ago, buddiecat said:

Email the SMiSA committee and ask bud, i asked at a meeting and was told he has an option to stay the ten years if he wishes, i was informed there was a clause in the agreement with Gordon which allows this, i could not see the clause and was told it is there,  just may be hard to find/decipher.

The agreement states Smisa must make an offer for Gordon's shares in July 2026, or if sooner, when it has in excess of £615k in the joint account for share purchase. It doesn't give him a right to stay if the funds are raised sooner, but as we know he has made plain he is staying on, and the Smisa committee are shall we say sanguine about that.

the clause isnt there.

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