Safety Of Our Fans

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

I'm sure fellow SMISA members must be concerned about the holigan element surrounding  Rangers fans this season. At Aberdeen a glass bottle just missed a child inside the stadium. Huge street fights against Wigan. Croat 2 fans stabbed mid week. A young female Saints fan hit with a bottle. Various missiles thrown at Saints fans. Our fans attacked leaving the stadium. They have a holigan element hell bent in causing trouble this season.  Surly Saints fans must feel safe in their own home. They must be given the away end only . Hope fellow SMISA members add their tuppence worth with this brought at a forthcoming board meeting. 

[shull]

Give them half the North Stand or a similar percentage that we receive at Ibrox. 

I would rather have lots of empty seats than those bigots infesting large parts of our Stadium. 

[oaksoft]

It's taken me a long time to come to a decision about this and I had admittedly chopped and changed my mind on it but the events of Sunday have brought me to my senses.

I can no longer support the club's position on this. Neither Celtic nor Rangers should be allowed to take up seats in our own stands.

There are more important things than money. The club is doing very well on and off the pitch. The board needs to take a step back, stop thinking about the cash and re-consider their decision.

[Lord Pityme]

1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

I'm sure fellow SMISA members must be concerned about the holigan element surrounding  Rangers fans this season. At Aberdeen a glass bottle just missed a child inside the stadium. Huge street fights against Wigan. Croat 2 fans stabbed mid week. A young female Saints fan hit with a bottle. Various missiles thrown at Saints fans. Our fans attacked leaving the stadium. They have a holigan element hell bent in causing trouble this season.  Surly Saints fans must feel safe in their own home. They must be given the away end only . Hope fellow SMISA members add their tuppence worth with this brought at a forthcoming board meeting. 

As I said on the other thread this decision was taken by the board which includes our Smisa director, despite clear and categoric assurances during BTB that the membership would always be consulted before, and be part of any decision to turf families & kids out of their seats to make a few bob!

smisa wont back you, their complicit silence on one of the very few issues they and GLS stated would be for the membership to decide is DEAFENING..!

[St.Ricky]

22 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It's taken me a long time to come to a decision about this and I had admittedly chopped and changed my mind on it but the events of Sunday have brought me to my senses.

I can no longer support the club's position on this. Neither Celtic nor Rangers should be allowed to take up seats in our own stands.

There are more important things than money. The club is doing very well on and off the pitch. The board needs to take a step back, stop thinking about the cash and re-consider their decision.

I am getting closer to this position. 

I would encourage the club to set out how many seats they would need to sell in the West Stand and South Stand to reverse their decision. 

I would then like to see them make it as easy as possible for fans to buy these. 

Once done..... The fans can do their part by buying these. 

[bazil85]

This is another issue that fans can't assume they're in the majority over.

I don't like it as much as the next person but until St Mirren fans are filling these seats I see it as a necessary evil. The bottom line is, as a club we need to look at all possible income revenues. Money is king in modern football whether we like it or not. 

Regarding the specific issue of safety, for me it's a red herring in the debate. We limit them to one stand, then the other three will be infested with their fans buying home tickets. Just takes a bad bunch to be in there with our fans to cause more problems than them getting a second stand.

[munoz]

1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

This is another issue that fans can't assume they're in the majority over.

I don't like it as much as the next person but until St Mirren fans are filling these seats I see it as a necessary evil. The bottom line is, as a club we need to look at all possible income revenues. Money is king in modern football whether we like it or not. 

Regarding the specific issue of safety, for me it's a red herring in the debate. We limit them to one stand, then the other three will be infested with their fans buying home tickets. Just takes a bad bunch to be in there with our fans to cause more problems than them getting a second stand.

Why not put it to the vote ? 

[St.Ricky]

6 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

This is another issue that fans can't assume they're in the majority over.

I don't like it as much as the next person but until St Mirren fans are filling these seats I see it as a necessary evil. The bottom line is, as a club we need to look at all possible income revenues. Money is king in modern football whether we like it or not. 

Regarding the specific issue of safety, for me it's a red herring in the debate. We limit them to one stand, then the other three will be infested with their fans buying home tickets. Just takes a bad bunch to be in there with our fans to cause more problems than them getting a second stand.

I have been willing to be pragmatic over this and still am but very reluctantly. 

I have two concerns:

1 That the club should make clear how many more season tickets we need to sell to prevent the allocation of both stands and PROMOTE their sale. 

2 Explain how the movement of fans into and out of the ground is going to be handled to ensure public safety. 

[bazil85]

18 minutes ago, munoz said:

Why not put it to the vote ? 

Because it’s not SMISA choice. It’s a club decision, why should SMISA do a vote on club decisions? We can decide when we own the club 

[bazil85]

14 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

I have been willing to be pragmatic over this and still am but very reluctantly. 

I have two concerns:

1 That the club should make clear how many more season tickets we need to sell to prevent the allocation of both stands and PROMOTE their sale. 

2 Explain how the movement of fans into and out of the ground is going to be handled to ensure public safety. 

1. Completely agree with you however I feel the target would of been a bit pointless this year (and coming seasons) because we’d be way off. Something more long term for me 

2. I don’t see it as anymore of an issue than when they just have one stand. You’d be getting their fans mixing to potentially even more of a degree given that more of them would be in the home end. Also as much as some of them are shameful, it does remain a small fraction and mitigating against that would be tough regardless of Rangers fan numbers. 

[St.Ricky]

14 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

1. Completely agree with you however I feel the target would of been a bit pointless this year (and coming seasons) because we’d be way off. Something more long term for me 

2. I don’t see it as anymore of an issue than when they just have one stand. You’d be getting their fans mixing to potentially even more of a degree given that more of them would be in the home end. Also as much as some of them are shameful, it does remain a small fraction and mitigating against that would be tough regardless of Rangers fan numbers. 

On the second point. 

A lot more crossover of fans. 

Alternative arrangements could be to make either the main or west stand available to our visitors by moving ours to the north and South stands. 

Much easier to Steward and police and would have Saints fans in 3 sides of the ground. 

[bazil85]

Just now, St.Ricky said:

On the second point. 

A lot more crossover of fans. 

Alternative arrangements could be to make either the main or west stand available to our visitors by moving ours to the north and South stands. 

Much easier to Steward and police and would have Saints fans in 3 sides of the ground. 

I think this is the whole part of the issue, that W7 was wanting to be kept by St Mirren and sharing stands impacts the toilets and catering. 

I take the point about crossover of fans but 99% of people there, will be no trouble at all. The 1% that are idiots, I actually think from a safety perspective, this plan will more likely have them in with their own kind and not St Mirren fans. After the games, people just need to be sensible. 

[Lord Pityme]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Because it’s not SMISA choice. It’s a club decision, why should SMISA do a vote on club decisions? We can decide when we own the club 

First point we own 30% of the club, and under law should always be consulted/ involved in making company decisions. Second point...  both Smisa and Gordon Scott were very clear, the issue surrounding turfing our fans, families and children out of their seats would be only be taken if its what the fans wanted. Of the few promises they freely made this is another one they have gone back on!

i thought you were big on democracy and due process? Not when its your pals who are standing in the eay of it it appears???

[bazil85]

20 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

First point we own 30% of the club, and under law should always be consulted/ involved in making company decisions. Second point...  both Smisa and Gordon Scott were very clear, the issue surrounding turfing our fans, families and children out of their seats would be only be taken if its what the fans wanted. Of the few promises they freely made this is another one they have gone back on!

i thought you were big on democracy and due process? Not when its your pals who are standing in the eay of it it appears???

1. It isn't a decision which requires us to be consulted on regarding what you're talking about legally.

If it was you could argue we should be having a vote for ticket prices, season ticket prices, strip prices, strip design, Bovril prices, steward numbers, lecy suppliers for the floodlights. As SMISA have very clearly stated right now GLS is majority shareholder and in order to make certain decisions someone will be elected to the board. DN is in that position and this has been a board level decision, whether he supported it or not I don't know however it is something that has split fans so it's lose lose one way or another. 

2. I don't remember any communication 'clear' or otherwise that this specifically would be a decision only if fans agreed

3. See my previous point about board decisions and democratic votes. Can't vote on every little thing that will realistically only impact two or three games a season. 

[St.Ricky]

2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I think this is the whole part of the issue, that W7 was wanting to be kept by St Mirren and sharing stands impacts the toilets and catering. 

I take the point about crossover of fans but 99% of people there, will be no trouble at all. The 1% that are idiots, I actually think from a safety perspective, this plan will more likely have them in with their own kind and not St Mirren fans. After the games, people just need to be sensible. 

I wasn't suggesting sharing the West Stand. 

I was suggesting that one option would be e. g. That we give the Whole West Stand to the OF and move us to The North and South Stand. 

This would give Saints 3 stands... North, Main and South. 

Easier to police. 

[WeeBud]

1 minute ago, St.Ricky said:

I wasn't suggesting sharing the West Stand. 

I was suggesting that one option would be e. g. That we give the Whole West Stand to the OF and move us to The North and South Stand. 

This would give Saints 3 stands... North, Main and South. 

Easier to police. 

I'd reckon that most fans sit in the West and Main Stands because there is a preference to watch the game from the touchlines rather than behind the goals. It may be easier to police but I don't see giving up "the best seats in the house" to the knuckle-draggers as being a goer!!

[Drew]

3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

This is another issue that fans can't assume they're in the majority over.

I don't like it as much as the next person but until St Mirren fans are filling these seats I see it as a necessary evil. The bottom line is, as a club we need to look at all possible income revenues. Money is king in modern football whether we like it or not. 

Regarding the specific issue of safety, for me it's a red herring in the debate. We limit them to one stand, then the other three will be infested with their fans buying home tickets. Just takes a bad bunch to be in there with our fans to cause more problems than them getting a second stand.

How often have our stands been 'infested' with them in the past? I'm struggling to recall this phenomenon.

[bazil85]

23 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

I wasn't suggesting sharing the West Stand. 

I was suggesting that one option would be e. g. That we give the Whole West Stand to the OF and move us to The North and South Stand. 

This would give Saints 3 stands... North, Main and South. 

Easier to police. 

It would also be putting out our biggest supporters population, massively impacting the atmosphere and causing most disruption to St Mirren fans IMO. 

[bazil85]

5 minutes ago, Drew said:

How often have our stands been 'infested' with them in the past? I'm struggling to recall this phenomenon.

Witnessed it several times at Love Street and in the family stand at new ground when used to sit in there. One of my earliest memories as a football fan in late 80s early 90s was a Rangers fan getting chucked out. 

Do you genuinely not think they buy home tickets? 

[St.Ricky]

6 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

It would also be putting out our biggest supporters population, massively impacting the atmosphere and causing most disruption to St Mirren fans IMO. 

And I take a different view on the impact and I would be involved in moving.  This would give us Saints Fans on Three Sides of the Pitch , Create a great Atmosphere with theguys fromW7 in the NorthStand.  Our fans would be able to enter and leave from the same Main Stand Side whilst allowing the away fans easy access separately from ours.  Stewarding and policing would be greatly simplified.  

[munoz]

10 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Witnessed it several times at Love Street and in the family stand at new ground when used to sit in there. One of my earliest memories as a football fan in late 80s early 90s was a Rangers fan getting chucked out. 

Do you genuinely not think they buy home tickets? 

If they did , they'd still be chucked out.

[Lord Pityme]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

1. It isn't a decision which requires us to be consulted on regarding what you're talking about legally.

If it was you could argue we should be having a vote for ticket prices, season ticket prices, strip prices, strip design, Bovril prices, steward numbers, lecy suppliers for the floodlights. As SMISA have very clearly stated right now GLS is majority shareholder and in order to make certain decisions someone will be elected to the board. DN is in that position and this has been a board level decision, whether he supported it or not I don't know however it is something that has split fans so it's lose lose one way or another. 

2. I don't remember any communication 'clear' or otherwise that this specifically would be a decision only if fans agreed

3. See my previous point about board decisions and democratic votes. Can't vote on every little thing that will realistically only impact two or three games a season. 

Funny the things you dont remember! And even funnier how you shy away from democracy under the most wishy washy excuses.

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

And I take a different view on the impact and I would be involved in moving.  This would give us Saints Fans on Three Sides of the Pitch , Create a great Atmosphere with theguys fromW7 in the NorthStand.  Our fans would be able to enter and leave from the same Main Stand Side whilst allowing the away fans easy access separately from ours.  Stewarding and policing would be greatly simplified.  

As GLS said they considered all options and this was the best. I think the worry of trouble is potentially clowning your judgement a bit. If they did it that way you still have the risk of fans crossing paths. You’ll never fully stop that. 

[bazil85]

4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Funny the things you dont remember! And even funnier how you shy away from democracy under the most wishy washy excuses.

Feel free to show evidence that this decision wasn’t lawful. 

Then explain how we could logistically have a vote for every decision of similar level. (Like ticket prices, other allocations, shirt prices, etc) because you don’t like a decision by the board doesn’t mean it should have been voted on by SMISA

[Drew]

38 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Witnessed it several times at Love Street and in the family stand at new ground when used to sit in there. One of my earliest memories as a football fan in late 80s early 90s was a Rangers fan getting chucked out. 

Do you genuinely not think they buy home tickets? 

I only just noticed that my first pic seems to feature a QotS player, but that's a mere technicality....

I don't have many memories of Rangers or sevco supporters invading the home ends in significant numbers.