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50 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You didnt answer my question from earlier so I will repeat it.

What about volunteers who help the club out?

There is no financial attachment. 

Are they fans or supporters?

You are digging yourself a hole here because for some strange reason you want to put a label on certain supporters to make them appear less supportive of the club than yourself. In this case, F man is your target.

When the only people backing you up are ged62 and IOBS you really ought to smel the coffee bud.

Not that I can really be arsed getting involved but, do volunteers not supply a valuable service that the club would otherwise have to pay for ?

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2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You didnt answer my question from earlier so I will repeat it.

What about volunteers who help the club out?

There is no financial attachment. 

Are they fans or supporters?

You are digging yourself a hole here because for some strange reason you want to put a label on certain supporters to make them appear less supportive of the club than yourself. In this case, F man is your target.

When the only people backing you up are ged62 and IOBS you really ought to smel the coffee bud.

I suspect that Ricky will say volunteers give of their time rather than their money. As opposed to armchair fans who give of hee haw other than perhaps their emotions. 

I must confess that historically I’ve always subscribed to the same viewpoint as Ricky, albeit that some of the responses on this thread have caused me to challenge that view. 

You are of course right that there is no real requirement to label anyone, although I’m not really sure that’s what Ricky was trying to do, more merely to point out that in his view there is a difference between the two words. 

Crucially though, he made it absolutely clear that he wasn’t suggesting one was more important than the other, a fact which some on the thread (not you) have deliberately chosen to ignore in order to be able to have yet another go at him.

 

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1 hour ago, munoz said:

Not that I can really be arsed getting involved but, do volunteers not supply a valuable service that the club would otherwise have to pay for ?

Dinnae sit on the fence.

Just agree with me :byebye

Or Rick

What a fecking choice :D

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You didnt answer my question from earlier so I will repeat it.

What about volunteers who help the club out?

There is no financial attachment. 

Are they fans or supporters?

You are digging yourself a hole here because for some strange reason you want to put a label on certain supporters to make them appear less supportive of the club than yourself. In this case, F man is your target.

When the only people backing you up are ged62 and IOBS you really ought to smel the coffee bud.

I repeat. There is no value difference to me personally between being a fan or a supporter.  I welcome each and every one. There is a financial difference to the club however as it seeks to maintain and build revenue from active supporters who attend matches or buy any of the club's services or goods. Volunteers who give their time to the club are indeed supporters in both senses as they remove a cost which the club otherwise would have to meet. Turning to F Man it looks like he watches St Mirren TV in the Republic of Arbroath  (didn't know about the second declaration of Arbroath ) so despite his aversion to going to games he is actively supporting the club. Well done F Man .

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1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

I repeat. There is no value difference to me personally between being a fan or a supporter.  I welcome each and every one. There is a financial difference to the club however as it seeks to maintain and build revenue from active supporters who attend matches or buy any of the club's services or goods. Volunteers who give their time to the club are indeed supporters in both senses as they remove a cost which the club otherwise would have to meet. Turning to F Man it looks like he watches St Mirren TV in the Republic of Arbroath  (didn't know about the second declaration of Arbroath ) so despite his aversion to going to games he is actively supporting the club. Well done F Man .

I get your point Ricky. Some will choose to ignore it.

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6 hours ago, munoz said:

Not that I can really be arsed getting involved but, do volunteers not supply a valuable service that the club would otherwise have to pay for ?

Not necessarily. The club could easily just put off whatever the volunteers are doing.

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4 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

I repeat. There is no value difference to me personally between being a fan or a supporter.  I welcome each and every one. There is a financial difference to the club however as it seeks to maintain and build revenue from active supporters who attend matches or buy any of the club's services or goods. Volunteers who give their time to the club are indeed supporters in both senses as they remove a cost which the club otherwise would have to meet. Turning to F Man it looks like he watches St Mirren TV in the Republic of Arbroath  (didn't know about the second declaration of Arbroath ) so despite his aversion to going to games he is actively supporting the club. Well done F Man .

Not necessarily. See my last post above.

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4 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

I suspect that Ricky will say volunteers give of their time rather than their money. As opposed to armchair fans who give of hee haw other than perhaps their emotions. 

I must confess that historically I’ve always subscribed to the same viewpoint as Ricky, albeit that some of the responses on this thread have caused me to challenge that view. 

You are of course right that there is no real requirement to label anyone, although I’m not really sure that’s what Ricky was trying to do, more merely to point out that in his view there is a difference between the two words. 

Crucially though, he made it absolutely clear that he wasn’t suggesting one was more important than the other, a fact which some on the thread (not you) have deliberately chosen to ignore in order to be able to have yet another go at him.

 

Other than to have a dig at F man, I'm just not entirely sure why he is making the case for two labels in the first place.

Seems needlessly divisive regardless of what he says about both being of equal importance. I'm not sure I take him at face value on that last part given his repeated digs at F man;'s attendance at games.

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2 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

They could indeed. Why not? 

 

I explained that in the previous post I directed you to.

The club don't HAVE to do anything the volunteers currently do. They could easily decide at no cost to simply drop that work.

Therefore there would be no financial difference to the club.

Tell us if this is a genuine discussion or just a way to flay F man. I don't appreciate having my time wasted if it's the latter.

Edited by oaksoft

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Just now, oaksoft said:

I explained that in the previous post I directed you to.

The club don't HAVE to do anything the volunteers currently do. They could easily decide at no cost to simply drop that work.

Therefore there would be no financial difference to the club.

Oak.

The argument you make is, as I suspect you know, a circular one.

Have it as you will. No skin off my nose.

You don't agree, you don't agree - Fine.

Opinions are what opinions are - Opinions.

Great that you feel that you should take the time to comment though.

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5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Other than to have a dig at F man, I'm just not entirely sure why he is making the case for two labels in the first place.

Seems needlessly divisive regardless of what he says about both being of equal importance. I'm not sure I take him at face value on that last part given his repeated digs at F man;'s attendance at games.

F Man takes a dig at everyone. Why should someone not have a dig at him?

Seems fair enough to me. I don't know the man.

I have no desire to know the man or him me I would guess.

Just online jousting/

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12 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Oak.

The argument you make is, as I suspect you know, a circular one.

Have it as you will. No skin off my nose.

You don't agree, you don't agree - Fine.

Opinions are what opinions are - Opinions.

Great that you feel that you should take the time to comment though.

I have no idea where this response is coming from at all.

Volunteers don't always have a financial impact on a club.

That is a statement of fact not an opinion and it is directly refuting your point that supporters "have to have a financial relationship with the club".

Volunteers are very clearly supporters and therefore your previous definition of a supporter has been proven to be incorrect by me providing an instance where your assertion is not always true.

That is not a circular argument. It is a perfectly logical proof by reducto ad absurdum, used for many hundreds of years.

You could have the good grace to admit I was correct or you could show where I am wrong.

You choose to respond with that weird post though. It's odd.

Edited by oaksoft

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2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I have no idea where this response is coming from at all.

Volunteers don't always have a financial impact on a club.

That is a statement of fact not an opinion and it is directly refuting your point that supporters "have to have a financial relationship with the club".

Volunteers are very clearly supporters and therefore your previous definition of a supporter has been proven to be incorrect by me providing an instance where your assertion is not always true.

That is not a circular argument. It is a perfectly logical proof by reducto ad absurdum, used for many hundreds of years.

You could have the good grace to admit I was correct or you could show where I am wrong.

You choose to respond with that weird post though. It's odd.

As you wish young sir. Easier just to agree with you as all discussions become circular.

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12 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

F Man takes a dig at everyone. Why should someone not have a dig at him?

Seems fair enough to me. I don't know the man.

I have no desire to know the man or him me I would guess.

Just online jousting/

Well I think that clears up rather nicely where you are coming from.

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6 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yeah, I think this sort of attitude from you is why you get so much heat on here.

Great - Isn't it !

This is NOT real life.

I don't come on here to win friends or influence people . 

Just as well you may well say, perhaps with some justification.

But - I do love seeing the strongly held opinions of others.

And discussing these.

Sometimes a few people react strongly when queried.

Edited by St.Ricky

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