Loan Signings

[Dave The Buddie]

Cammy Smith most recently who we had on loan then signed permanent and we have contracts expiring every year are you new to supporting St Mirren? 
Harry Davis and Gavin Reilly had successful season with us on permanent deals but have moved on they may as well been on 1 year loan deals shows it makes no difference.
 
No as many as we need/can afford to help us have a successful season.
 
You trying to say if we got 10 loanees in and finished top 6 you still wouldn’t be happy?
 
 

I would be delighted if we finished in the top 6 of course but we are not going to with 10 loanees.

Cammy Smith’s career when we signed him was nose diving. Not getting near the Aberdeen team nor the Dundee Utd team he was on loan for previously. It was also a different league. Of course he has been a massive success. The only other two off the top of my head were successful and stayed with us the following season was McGowan and Newton but we only ever had 2 or 3 to replace every season not 6+.

[buddies1877]

The only time i don't like it is if we are stopping our own youngsters developing.

Absolutely but again that would be the same for players coming in on permanent deals.

Wouldn’t like to see anyone coming in affecting Kyle he’s on a decent contract let’s hope this time we get a decent fee for one of our youngsters.

[DLBud]

I think we were a little spoiled the year before last when Jack retained most of the core that kept us up.

Normally, the only way you retain your squad year on year is if nobody else wants them.

We’ve given out a few multi-year deals this summer and time will tell if those were sound investments or not.

Probably wise to stick to short term (1 year) deals or loans from here on out.

The one loan I don’t like is Brock as he could go in Jan and, if he’s doing well, that could really disrupt the team.

[buddies1877]

 

I would be delighted if we finished in the top 6 of course but we are not going to with 10 loanees.

 

Cammy Smith’s career when we signed him was nose diving. Not getting near the Aberdeen team nor the Dundee Utd team he was on loan for previously. It was also a different league. Of course he has been a massive success. The only other two off the top of my head were successful and stayed with us the following season was McGowan and Newton but we only ever had 2 or 3 to replace every season not 6+.

Last time we had less than 4 loans in a season was 2011.

 

Imo we have a much better chance with more loans than with permanent deals as certain loans we could be lucky to get in we would never be able to afford their full wage on a permanent deal.

 

I’m not suggesting for a second we should go with a full squad of loanees as long as it doesn’t affect our academy players like permanent deals coming in then the amount doesn’t really bother me.

 

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Dave The Buddie said:

 

I would be delighted if we finished in the top 6 of course but we are not going to with 10 loanees.

.

 

Because....?

[suedehead]

........ How about gettin' a Manager who has half a clue on loan? .......

[Wendy Saintss]

 

I would be delighted if we finished in the top 6 of course but we are not going to with 10 loanees.

 

Cammy Smith’s career when we signed him was nose diving. Not getting near the Aberdeen team nor the Dundee Utd team he was on loan for previously. It was also a different league. Of course he has been a massive success. The only other two off the top of my head were successful and stayed with us the following season was McGowan and Newton but we only ever had 2 or 3 to replace every season not 6+.

 

Harry Davis also stayed after being on loan.

 

JR brought in 4 loanees in his first transfer window, 2 of them stayed and I believe we offered a contract to 1 of the others.

 

JR just released 10+ guys in the close season who were all ‘permanent’ signings.

 

What difference does it make if the guy needing to be replaced was a loanee or a permanent signing?

 

And if a prospective loanee is a better player than a prospective ‘permanent’ signing on a 1 year deal surely we should go for the better player?

 

We’re also now in the position where we have some players half way through a 2 year deal and the manager doesn’t want them!

[TopCat]

Makes no difference at all.

A loan signing is pretty much the same as having a player on a 1 year deal.

From the top of my head I think we’ve had more success with loan signings than regular signings in recent years.

Goes without saying that the cup win wouldn’t have happened without Newton, Gonçalves and Dummett, all of whom were on loan.

Also been less spectacular success stories in the shape of guys like Harry Davies, Cammy Smith, Rory Loy, Billy O’Brien and Liam Smith.

A club like us should absolutely be signing as many players on loan as possible. Of course there will be some misses, but it’s a relatively low risk venture with the potential of uncovering a few diamonds.

[mad saint 2]

plus point off loan signungs

 

is gives us time te recruit and assess our own squad 

 

and bring in replacements we then dont have to pay off any contracts 

 

when we sign the occasional duffer 

[Drew]

9 hours ago, Dave The Buddie said:

 

Thanks for the info but Rangers never had more than 4 loan signings at any one time. They signed Declan John permanently. Namane got punted after 5 months. Celtic has options to purchase 2 of them at the end of the season and I could make cases for the Aberdeen players with McLean etc.

We have took 6 signings all at the one time to play in the 1st team. That’s not to say we are finished there.

Splitting hairs, now.

Rather than focus on the quantative element, why not consider the contribution these guys made to the respective clubs. Surely that is the point.

Anything else seems pretty academic.

If a player fits the bill, is happy to play for Saints, and makes a positive contribution, I couldn't really give two shits what is written on a bit of paper somewhere.

[Soctty]

Loan signings are just routine for Scottish clubs now, with less money in the game. Why would we limit ourselves by not signing players on loan who are better than what we have. As has been noted before, the biggest clubs in this country have utilised the loan market to their advantage. Just because they are operating at a different level doesn't make the principle the same.

IT's been covered well by many of the replies on here but I would struggle to find one negative to it that you wouldn't encounter with a 1 year permanent signing. Hopefully another loan to come in before the window closes as well...

[Dave The Buddie]

Because....?

IMO our squad is weaker than last season therefore I don’t believe we will finish in the top 6. I will snap the hand off anyone giving us 10th.

My opinion might change depending on who we sign between now and the window closing but not based on what we have currently.

[Soctty]

Just now, Dave The Buddie said:

 

IMO our squad is weaker than last season therefore I don’t believe we will finish in the top 6. I will snap the hand off anyone giving us 10th.

My opinion might change depending on who we sign between now and the window closing but not based on what we have currently.

 

Our squad from last season would have struggled badly to finish anything but bottom. The previous manager knew this only too well, and had planned for big changes. Obviously a new manager has come in and has his own ideas - that's what happens. The players we have signed will and have taken varying times to settle and gel with their team mates. We'll have a better idea of the quality of the squad around October time imo.

[magnus]

12 minutes ago, Dave The Buddie said:

 

IMO our squad is weaker than last season therefore I don’t believe we will finish in the top 6. I will snap the hand off anyone giving us 10th.

My opinion might change depending on who we sign between now and the window closing but not based on what we have currently.

 

I agree. The loss of Lewis and Harry, in particular, has significantly weakened us. Cammy, Kyle and even Steven McG seem to be struggling to find form in a team with so many unproven players. I have completely reset my ambition for the season ahead. Staying up will be a massive achievement and hopefully AS can get us to kick on next season.

Edited August 21, 2018 by magnus

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

7 minutes ago, Dave The Buddie said:

 

IMO our squad is weaker than last season therefore I don’t believe we will finish in the top 6. I will snap the hand off anyone giving us 10th.

My opinion might change depending on who we sign between now and the window closing but not based on what we have currently.

 

Betfred performances have been alarming in particular Aberdeen no fight or spirit that had a relegation performance written all over it. Not only have the players to ask questions of themselves Stubbs also the way he set the team up. For it to be like this so early in the season is a huge worry. Saturday game is massive for more than one reason. I really fear what Hearts and Celtic will do to us loan players or not. 

[Wendy Saintss]

IMO our squad is weaker than last season therefore I don’t believe we will finish in the top 6. I will snap the hand off anyone giving us 10th.

My opinion might change depending on who we sign between now and the window closing but not based on what we have currently.

What’s that got to do with whether the signings are loans or otherwise?

[pod]

1 hour ago, Soctty said:

Our squad from last season would have struggled badly to finish anything but bottom. The previous manager knew this only too well, and had planned for big changes. Obviously a new manager has come in and has his own ideas - that's what happens. The players we have signed will and have taken varying times to settle and gel with their team mates. We'll have a better idea of the quality of the squad around October time imo.

Aye like looking for another club.  

[StanleySaint]

Just because we have permanent signings doesn't guarantee that we will keep them for any length of time, other clubs will try to pick off the best of them and say we give someone a 3 year deal what are the chances that we'll keep them for the full term of their contract, if not intending to renew then we have to decide if we cash in after 2 seasons or let them run down the contract and lose them potentially for nothing. Surely quality and application is a better judge of a player than length of contract? 

[Dave The Buddie]

Just because we have permanent signings doesn't guarantee that we will keep them for any length of time, other clubs will try to pick off the best of them and say we give someone a 3 year deal what are the chances that we'll keep them for the full term of their contract, if not intending to renew then we have to decide if we cash in after 2 seasons or let them run down the contract and lose them potentially for nothing. Surely quality and application is a better judge of a player than length of contract? 

We talk about signing young player such as McGinn, McLean, Mallan & Morgan for example. Develop them then sell them on and insert a sell on value for when they move on again. Great philosophy as we are always going to be a selling club and give us revenue.

What I don’t want us to do is bring in 6+ loanees halt the our own young players coming through or signing people on two year contracts they we may be able to sell on after a season. I don’t mind the signings of Cooke, King & Heaton because if they perform well we can generate funds from them

[porks]

We are now up to 6 loan signings. Good / Bad thing or does it not matter?

Doesn't matter a jot.

Contracts mean next to f**k all unless we are buying as an investment with an intent to sell at a profit.

Don't know why people get bothered about it, living in the past.

[Wendy Saintss]

51 minutes ago, Dave The Buddie said:

or signing people on two year contracts they we may be able to sell on after a season.

 

 

Like, when has that ever happened or is likely to ever happen?

A million to one shot!

[FTOF]

1 hour ago, Dave The Buddie said:

What I don’t want us to do is bring in 6+ loanees halt the our own young players coming through

 

 

So signing players on 1 year contracts that halt our young players progress would be O.K.?

 

[Callum Gilhooley]

Loans or permanent signings ? Doesn’t make a whole lot of difference to me.  Did Lewis Morgan play with any less application and ability when he became a loanee ? 

The only thing I would like to see is the continuation of players coming through our youth system .

[Dibbles old paperboy]

I wonder how much freedom we have to drop our loanees - obviously given the number of loanees it's hard to drop the majority of them given "last year's squad would have been certainties for relegation" and we have a few academy players of our own stepping into the first team squad. Do we have to play Coulson, Willock, Brock-Madsen every week or are there financial penalties for us if they are fit but not selected?

Another reason why I've stated my lack of enthusiasm about the number of loan signings we've made is that players are generally sent on loan if they have fallen out with the manager or not in the manager's plans or are viewed as having potential or needing experience of first-team football. Often young players are sent on loan to toughen them up or get them experience and a loan period is often used to assess whether they have any prospect of succeeding at their parent club or whether they might have a future in the game at a lower level. If we think about who we sent out on loan in the last 5 years or so, Jon McShane did well with Accies in the Championship then disappeared after 1 good season-long loan spell, Jordan Kirkpatrick and Ross Stewart did well at Alloa,  and then you had the likes of Kyle Hutton going out on loan after his transfer to us didn't work out.

One of the things we probably needed to augment last year's squad players who were being kept on for this season was the addition of several ready-made first-team players in the 25-30 age bracket; Baird, Magennis, Smith,  Mullen, McPherson, Kirkpatrick are all quite young and don't have much / any premiership experience... Stubbs solution to strengthening the squad and adding quality has been to take punts on the potential of Heaton, King, Cooke and sign a bunch of young English academy players who are as young as our own academy graduates and have even less experience.

[Callum Gilhooley]

On yesterday’s performance , most of them can f**k right off