Stubbs can go now

[div]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It's just people pretending to be ITK be ause they have read some absolute horseshit on Twitter.

I hate to keep banging on about this but you do have to question the mindset of supposed fans who deliberately post stuff from Twitter when they know it is almost certainly shite.

Gary MacKenzie, Myles Hippolyte, Ross Stewart (GK), Adam Eckersley and Ian McShane were all told they were free to find new clubs following the training camp in Spain.

Cammy Smith has been told that he can move on if the deal suits the club.

None of this is a secret and it most certainly isn't shite.

 

[Dibbles old paperboy]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

How is that possibly relevant?

He was not sacked because of 6 games. 

It's relevant because I can read the whole thread. billyg raised the comparison between Stubbs and Rae by saying GLS gave Rae 6 league games before sacking him a few months after becoming chairman. Someone else replied Rae had 26 league games before being sacked and I pointed out most of those were under the old board. Rae was sacked because GLS didn't rate him. didn't like the style of football and didn't get on with him and results were poor. He certainly wasn't sacked on the basis of his record the previous season.

[buddies1877]

All your list shows is the natural wastage you would expect at the end of a season with loanees returning to parent clubs and players retiring. I don't think any club at any level has signed Gary Irvine yet and I don't think he played after September last season. A few signings which didn't work out (Todd and Duffy) left as their deals ended. It's possible that there were a few players under contract this season who Jack Ross might have seen only as squad players or might have shipped out on loan but the bulk of the dismantling of last year's squad had been done by Ross before he left and we have to assume that if he offered Gary MacKenzie a new contract for this season he would have been considered up to doing a job as a squad player this season by Ross. It was also noticeable that even players leaving (like Stellious) left on good terms.
The players Stubbs inherited were Craig Samson, Ross Stewart (GK), Paul McGinn, Jack Baird, Gary MacKenzie, Adam Eckersley, Jim Kellerman, Kyle Magennis, Stephen McGinn, Ian McShane,  Cameron McPherson, Jordan Kirkpatrick, Myles Hippolyte, Cammy Smith, Ross Stewart (striker), Danny Mullen. 
While most people thought some of those players (Kirkpatrick, MacPherson and Ross Stewart) might be shipped out on loan I think most of us thought the bulk of what was left was a bunch of players who would be competitive in the bottom 6 as starting XI players or squad members and provided we signed wisely over the summer we had a nucleus of a squad which should be competing with the Dundees, Accies, Livingstons, St Johnstones and Motherwells of the division.
Since Stubbs has arrived 8 of the players he has inherited have either been sold or told they will not get regular game time and are free to find other clubs (and that doesn't include Jordan Kirkpatrick or Connor MacPherson who weren't at the La Manga training camp). There are only 7 players left out of those Stubbs inherited who have not been sold already or told they are welcome to find new clubs. It is no surprise in those circumstances if their is low morale in the squad or a dressing room split into cliques. 
Out of the players he inherited I would say only Craig Samson and Kyle Magennis are sounding reasonably happy at the club at least in public.

We weren’t competitive against the relegated team from the spl last year when we played them and pumped of Aberdeen too.

We also took a few pumpings from championship teams last season.

If we had exact team as last season and jack we would have still got relegated imo.

We needed better players in several positions which Stubbs hasn’t added.

[billyg]

4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

, complete with one off pictures of the manager reacting to another conceded set piece. Maybe if he was waving his arms about the ball would magically have missed the goal.

That pic reminds me of the famous picture of RFC manager Scott Symon during their glorious defeat at Berwick. Hope the outcome's the same too !

[div]

Just now, Lord Pityme said:

Playing them out of position? You do know if Cammy Smith and five others played like we did last season we would be losing by double digits in this league??? Also given the board sold Morgan, let Reilly and Davis go we dont have the creativity, goals or guile to let Cammy play where he wants.

its about time some saints fans woke up to the fact that Ross tried several times to get out, then achieved it because he knew what lay ahead this season for a team with such a small budget. And they need to accept Ross has gone, along with half his squad.

Davis was out of contract.
Stubbs took Reilly's deal off the table.

Apart from that, aye, sound.

[santaponsasaint]

Playing them out of position? You do know if Cammy Smith and five others played like we did last season we would be losing by double digits in this league??? Also given the board sold Morgan, let Reilly and Davis go we dont have the creativity, goals or guile to let Cammy play where he wants. its about time some saints fans woke up to the fact that Ross tried several times to get out, then achieved it because he knew what lay ahead this season for a team with such a small budget. And they need to accept Ross has gone, along with half his squad.

 

That's my opinion if you don't like it tough luck. I'm entitled To it and you have it Not getting pointless posts like you do with other poster. And i respect your opinion. 

 

 

[div]

8 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats funny because most of the great managers don't embarrass themselves like a Klopp etc by jumping up and down trying to make out they are having an effect on the game, because they arent, other than pissing off the ref and 4th official, or indeed getting themselves sent to the stand whe they have no part in the game.

where on gods earth is that a positive? Its mainly ego pish. The team should know there jobs, formation etc by Thursday practice it Thu, Fri and excute on Saturday. The manager, and team are there to spot where a sub or tactical change will help achieve the objective. Its easier to do that from the dug out than being sent to the stand.

I don't think Rae or Farrell sat during a game. Did that help them in anyway?

the witchhunt goes on, complete with one off pictures of the manager reacting to another conceded set piece. Maybe if he was waving his arms about the ball would magically have missed the goal.

So, what you are saying now is that Alan Stubbs is actually a better more effective manager than Jurgen Klopp

[Wendy Saintss]

Playing them out of position. Publicly telling them there not wanted.

Of the 4 he publicly told were not wanted, 2 have been injured anyway ( as they were for large chunks of last season), 1 was a reserve keeper and the other was dropped by JR for the run in last season.

As for playing players out of position, you claimed this on Sat as well, re Flynn and Magennis.

Flynn was playing wide right on Sat. That’s the position he’s played in his entire career. JR played him there too.

Magennis was also playing wide. Again, he’s played wide most of his first team career. JR played him wide most of the time. He only moved centrally last season when Flynn arrived.

It’s fine to criticise the manager. But not when you’ve just made stuff up.

[Wendy Saintss]

Whether Stubbs did or didn’t dismantle the squad ( & I think it’s fairly clear he didn’t ) what I am more concerned about is the utter f**king dross some of his signings have been , the apparent lack of any sort of plan and the piss poor performances to date. He is not JR , he doesn’t have that sort of personality and I would not want anyone to have to pretend to be someone they’re not but we wouldn’t even be discussing that if we were in any way halfway decent on the park .

Totally agree. One of the more sane posts on this thread.

[oaksoft]

7 minutes ago, div said:

Gary MacKenzie, Myles Hippolyte, Ross Stewart (GK), Adam Eckersley and Ian McShane were all told they were free to find new clubs following the training camp in Spain.

Cammy Smith has been told that he can move on if the deal suits the club.

None of this is a secret and it most certainly isn't shite.

 

The only person I want to hear this from is our manager or some named person in authority at the club.

I also only want to see the exact quotes within the full context of the interview.

I certainly dont want to hear it second, third or fourth hand through ITK unconfirmed sources and through Twitter because the message gets contaminated and misinterpreted regardless of the intention of those publicising it.

BTW all players at all clubs are available for transfer if the right deal comes along.

Edited August 27, 2018 by oaksoft

[Wendy Saintss]

Spin away but Rae was not sacked on the basis of just 6 games.
Do you actually think people on here are so stupid that they cant remember what happened for themselves? 

To be honest, I thought he was sacked on the basis of those 6 games. He’d done ok the previous season.

[Kirkie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/45316797

Are we now in the realms of openly downing tools to get rid of the manager?  From about 3:17 this is shocking from McGinn and Magennis and it wasn't an isolated incident.  At least Magennis makes a half-hearted late run here to track the Livingston player who strolls past him, McGinn does nothing.  Stubbs' signings might be genuinely rubbish or they could be young boys struggling to find their feet, but regardless, you would expect the team captain (and fans' hero) to at least try to set an example and give them a hand.  To then openly criticise them, and by implication, the manager in the press is hugely unhelpful and disruptive.

[Lord Pityme]

1 minute ago, div said:

Davis was out of contract.
Stubbs took Reilly's deal off the table.

Apart from that, aye, sound.

The club did not make good enough offers to a couple of their better players. And given even the players knew how tough it would be in the new season, as in all jobs and walks of life the more able ones move on unless they are shown the love & the money. We have, and will continue to pay the price of the budget constraints the manager operates under.

other than a fee for Heaton who we have no real idea yet if its an investment or liability he has had to beg, steal and borrow to field a team. Losing out on good players several times along the way to clubs with bigger budgets. I wonder how some would react if he had copied Livi's recruitment policy of hovering up the waifs & strays of Scottish football without even a teepee signing, never mind a feckin marquee..?

[div]

Just now, oaksoft said:

The only person I want to hear this from is pur manager or some named person in authority at the club.

I also only want to see the exact quotes within the full context of the interview.

I certainly dont want to hear it second, third or fourth hand through ITK unconfirmed sources and through Twitter because the message gets contaminated and misinterpreted regardless of the intention of those publicising it.

If you don't want to read rumours and gossip then forums and social media probably aren't the best places to spend your time.

 

[oaksoft]

1 minute ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

To be honest, I thought he was sacked on the basis of those 6 games. He’d done ok the previous season.

 

Yes but like billy and dibbles you are guessing about this.

[billyg]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

The only person I want to hear this from is our manager or some named person in authority at the club.

 

Nae luck. If you don't want to hear on here too bad , anything can be discussed , whether it proves to be 100% true or not ! If you don't like it you know what to do

[Lord Pityme]

1 minute ago, Kirkie said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/45316797

Are we now in the realms of openly downing tools to get rid of the manager?  From about 3:17 this is shocking from McGinn and Magennis and it wasn't an isolated incident.  At least Magennis makes a half-hearted late run here to track the Livingston player who strolls past him, McGinn does nothing.  Stubbs' signings might be genuinely rubbish or they could be young boys struggling to find their feet, but regardless, you would expect the team captain (and fans' hero) to at least try to set an example and give them a hand.  To then openly criticise them, and by implication, the manager in the press is hugely unhelpful and disruptive.

Yeah no one wants to criticise the "Hero's" who still picked up their wages after giving half the required effort!

play as a team, succeed as a team. Play with a petlip, you get pumped!

[oaksoft]

1 minute ago, div said:

If you don't want to read rumours and gossip then forums and social media probably aren't the best places to spend your time.

 

Fair point but my issue is where that gossip is being deliberately misused by people on here to attack our club.

Are you really not seeing where I am coming from on this?

[East Lothian Saint]

ALAN STUBBS, Movie star signings, fan interaction and tactics

THE PAST

Ok we know Stubbs was a great player and performed well for Everton and Celtic.

We also know he achieved Legend status at Hibs for winning the cup but he didn’t do too well when it came to getting them promoted.

We also know that just like Jack Ross, he didn’t try to build on his success. He used it to further his own career.

According to the Journalist who summarised his Rotherham career he got the job on the back of an A1 interview which caused the chairman to change his recruiting strategy and hire a younger manager with a vision instead of a seasoned experienced championship veteran.

Stubbs had a strategy to play a certain type of passing game which the players at Rotherham and his signings didn’t get the hang of and he blamed his lack of results on individual player errors and players not following instructions or adapting to his system. He had little interaction with the fans and was not prone to showing passion or emotion for the club. He was set in his ways and met criticism with “Have you seen how broad these shoulders are?  Bring It on” He was obviously confident in his system and ability he just needed the players to make it work and Rotherham could have been world beaters.

They only gave him 40 odd days or from August to October or whatever. Rotherham obviously had no vision and got shot of him pronto. The fans didn’t like him, and the chairman decided “Bye” Could they not see his vision and help him succeed.

The PRESENT

St Mirren needed a Manager. There were all sorts of fantasy applicants. Gutti and Klivert evaporated, Neilson wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole and we were left with Stubbs or Kenny Shiels nephew as the only candidates. Stubbs had an A1 interview. He got the Job. Fitzy raves about him and the season starts. Fans split down the middle on the appointment. Most wanted the guys who wouldn’t touch us as their preferred manager.

His team followed. Rice comes in to little reaction, Dazza comes on Board, Meltdown. A poor out of work TV pundit with a bit of history and an unsuccessful spell as an agent who ended up bankrupt because of attempts to become a producer in the movie world. Feck it could have happened to anyone, but he wasn’t a popular choice.

We get a decent result with a makeshift team on day one and then it goes to shit. People start to refer to Stubb, moviestar signings who can’t get a game and moan about his marquee signings that don’t arrive. It appears Jamie Vardy becomes more influential in staffing St Mirren than Fitzy. The product on the park becomes mince and instead of moving forward we lose momentum and fight disappears from the team. Stubbs blames individual errors and urges us all to stick together. As things get worse he never plays the same team twice but to his credit he starts to fleetingly mention fans in his interviews. He must have learned from Rotherham. His message, “Don’t worry we need to get players in help out the Squad. Everyone needs to understand their role, help each other out and stick together. It’s frustrating but We will get through this.”

Meanwhile rumours of fallouts in the dressing room and players leaving are rife. A mate of mate in the pub or a guy on P&B all have inside knowledge on all the reasons we are shit and who is leaving next. The players don’t like Dazza by the way.

THE FUTURE

So will we get through it? Will we see some drive, energy and performances from the team? Will Stubbs be able to impart his vision of his preferred passing system, which Rotherham missed out on, and make Saints world beaters. Will football ever be fun again?

Shouldn’t we just cut the guy some slack? Feck even Rotherham gave him more time than this!

Hopefully once the players understand his passing Vision we will see improvements?

It will be just like a movie with a happy ending.

Just don’t let Dazza anywhere near the production team.

Surely its too early for a new management team??????????????????????

Edited August 27, 2018 by East Lothian Saint
More long winded pish.

[Lord Pityme]

8 minutes ago, div said:

So, what you are saying now is that Alan Stubbs is actually a better more effective manager than Jurgen Klopp

You know how to make yourself look silly, a lot like Klopp really.

[div]

Just now, Lord Pityme said:

The club did not make good enough offers to a couple of their better players. And given even the players knew how tough it would be in the new season, as in all jobs and walks of life the more able ones move on unless they are shown the love & the money. We have, and will continue to pay the price of the budget constraints the manager operates under.

other than a fee for Heaton who we have no real idea yet if its an investment or liability he has had to beg, steal and borrow to field a team. Losing out on good players several times along the way to clubs with bigger budgets. I wonder how some would react if he had copied Livi's recruitment policy of hovering up the waifs & strays of Scottish football without even a teepee signing, never mind a feckin marquee..?

Unfortunately the magic money tree is broken. The club has a budget and every manager we have needs to operate within that.

I'd assume the manager will have had sight of that budget before agreeing to take the post.

No point crying about it afterwards. He spent £75K on a single player, that in itself is a players wage for a season.

 

[div]

Just now, Lord Pityme said:

You know how to make yourself look silly, a lot like Klopp really.

Yeah, taking Liverpool to the Champions League final last season, and sitting top of the EPL today.

Thank fuck we don't have a silly manager!

[buddies1877]

It's relevant because I can read the whole thread. billyg raised the comparison between Stubbs and Rae by saying GLS gave Rae 6 league games before sacking him a few months after becoming chairman. Someone else replied Rae had 26 league games before being sacked and I pointed out most of those were under the old board. Rae was sacked because GLS didn't rate him. didn't like the style of football and didn't get on with him and results were poor. He certainly wasn't sacked on the basis of his record the previous season.

Rae had 2 transfer windows around 26 league games then couldn’t manage a win in 6 league games in a lower level Stubbs has already won 1 in 3 league games at a higher level so all that says is Rae is f**king worse than Stubbs.

Makes zero difference who the chairman was at the time

A total irrelevant point to try make if your wanting the manager sacked.

[Lord Pityme]

Just now, div said:

Unfortunately the magic money tree is broken. The club has a budget and every manager we have needs to operate within that.

I'd assume the manager will have had sight of that budget before agreeing to take the post.

No point crying about it afterwards. He spent £75K on a single player, that in itself is a players wage for a season.

 

I think i clearly pointed out we have the budget we have, although a fair few are questioning where nearly £2million in transfer money has gone?

so Stubbs is wtong to have paid a fee for Heaton, but Ross is right to pay for Stewart, then realise he's not up to it and loan him out. And pay a fee for Mullen, then hook him regularly on the hour? 

Lets not overlook it was the board who sanctioned the fee for Heaton. Obviously they are stupid as well?

[div]

4 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Fair point but my issue is where that gossip is being deliberately misused by people on here to attack our club.

Are you really not seeing where I am coming from on this?

Not really bud. The papers and journalists have been reporting rumours and gossip around football clubs, players and managers since time began.

Now it happens online.

Stories leak out of clubs through loads of different avenues. Impossible to stop these days.