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Stubbs can go now


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I personally think AS has no chance this season due to his tactics, management style and the personnel he has collated. The big question for me is what do GLS/TF do about the situation? Or in other words how do they gamble, do they take the hit now and get rid or hold out and likely (based on form) take the inevitable hit later, I think they would gain far more kudos and respect by being strong now and getting rid.

If and I say if there are lessons to be learned maybe they GLS/TF need to structure the contacts better for management in future, say weighted in line with targets, risk/reward etc?

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10 minutes ago, cambiebud said:

For those calling for the manager’s head.
This is a new squad, still learning each other’s names, let alone abilities. The manager is still trying to work out a system, who is best played wherever. Not an excuse but replacing him makes absolutely no sense. He must be given time for his system to work, whether fans like it or not. Did you all expect instant success?
Bringing in a replacement 4 games into a new season would be madness. What message does that give to the loanees brought in? He must be given time to get things on an even keel. This isn’t happy clappy, it is common sense

I think if it wasn't for the 3 year contract there would be less hesitation here on the managers position. You could also say on the flip side on the basis of only 4 league games it would be unfair to call for his head. It took JR 3-4 months into his season to get results and a formula working, difference being he inherited all of his squad and had time to change in his first transfer window. Would the same length of time be fair to give Stubbs with the recent performances? I am unsure how long is enough time, as he has not only dismantled a winning squad(some departures plausible), though made some poor decisions on replacements, bar a few and not even looked close to being a team to compete for 90mins.

We have paid compensation for one of his coaching staff, appointed an assistant, spent significant money on a player who was not seen as ready standard to compete for a starting place and left some of the players from last season feeling they don't have a place in the team, when it's evident to see that they way be every bit worthy of a chance to play Infront of his signings.

The failure to bring in early targets, whether they were solid or not seems to have cost him in his plans of building a formula in time for the season to start.

Its a costly decision to make. 3 coaching staff on long-term deals plus the fact we paid compensation for one(no idea what that cost was). Would a new manager be able to come in and assemble the same squad and make us more capable of competing? How long will the next guy get? As much as I hate to say it, we will be waiting a very long time to see anything again like we did under JR and Fow.

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1 minute ago, kevo_smfc said:

I think if it wasn't for the 3 year contract there would be less hesitation here on the managers position. You could also say on the flip side on the basis of only 4 league games it would be unfair to call for his head. It took JR 3-4 months into his season to get results and a formula working, difference being he inherited all of his squad and had time to change in his first transfer window. Would the same length of time be fair to give Stubbs with the recent performances? I am unsure how long is enough time, as he has not only dismantled a winning squad(some departures plausible), though made some poor decisions on replacements, bar a few and not even looked close to being a team to compete for 90mins.

We have paid compensation for one of his coaching staff, appointed an assistant, spent significant money on a player who was not seen as ready standard to compete for a starting place and left some of the players from last season feeling they don't have a place in the team, when it's evident to see that they way be every bit worthy of a chance to play Infront of his signings.

The failure to bring in early targets, whether they were solid or not seems to have cost him in his plans of building a formula in time for the season to start.

Its a costly decision to make. 3 coaching staff on long-term deals plus the fact we paid compensation for one(no idea what that cost was). Would a new manager be able to come in and assemble the same squad and make us more capable of competing? How long will the next guy get? As much as I hate to say it, we will be waiting a very long time to see anything again like we did under JR and Fow.

Looking at the League table we are of course second bottom but 3 points more and we would be in OR around the top 6. Tough league.  Lots of learning going on. 

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1 minute ago, St.Ricky said:

Looking at the League table we are of course second bottom but 3 points more and we would be in OR around the top 6. Tough league.  Lots of learning going on. 

Not so much looking at the league table St R , its the way we have played , no organisation , and totally lacklustre. 

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23 minutes ago, Yardley said:

It will take a very good coach to get us out of this shambles Stubbs has created. 

i don't think the board trust Stubbs enough to bring more players in hence the lack of signings.

 

We signed 13 players this summer - 11 of them Stubbs signings equaling Jack Ross' record 11 signings in 1 window.

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4 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Looking at the League table we are of course second bottom but 3 points more and we would be in OR around the top 6. Tough league.  Lots of learning going on. 

I suspect we have already enjoyed our highest league placing of the season after beating Dundee on matchday 1. Four games in a row done and dusted  by half time. 277 minutes since a St Mirren player scored for St Mirren.

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I go with you Cambie. Long way to go in this league. Shock troops for most will be Livvy. At the moment Livvy are the shock troops for many. Our small group felt that their style of play last year would convert more easily into the Premiership.  Seems to be the case right now. Our disfunctional close season caused firstly by the is he going to Ipswich and He Has gone to Sunderland set us back. The new guy needs time.


Look, I agree that sacking the manager so soon into the new season seems ludicrous, however, something just isn’t right at the moment. We’re actually getting worse as the season moves forward, not better.

This team is appallingly unbalanced and full of inexperience at this level. This was Stubbs doing and he’s now stuck with it until he’s fired as that’s the only way this will end. He won’t turn it around. I wish I saw something that suggested he could but I’d only be kidding myself on if I said that.

The players he has brought in are way below the standard required and he knows that himself now. Before Heaton got injured how much time had he, King and Cooke seen in 1st team between them? They got 3 year, 2 year and 2 year deals respectively and had hardly played a pro game between them.

Now he’s having a pop at the players in his post match interview. That won’t end well either.

If he’s on a 3 year deal then we are truly f**ked and GLS has some explaining to do. If not, then removing him has to be serious consideration at this point.
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1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

The speed at which many have decided that the manger is to go is startling, which confrms my belief he was a dead man walking.

It's unlikely anyone could have had a decent season with us, IMO, especially after the success of the last 18 months.

Part of this malaise is down to the lack of support, you know as well as I do this is a common trait. 

We've been well beaten by Rangers, Aberdeen and Heats..................nothing surprising there, losing, in the manner we did, to Livingston, was very disappointing. 

We beat Dundee, but we were lucky.

In all the bad defeats we've steadied the ship in the 2nd half, but only because, and this is fact according to some, the other team have eased up.

You get my drift.

I agree with you, I really do. It pisses me off how quickly people got on Stubbs back, and how people were desperate for him to fail. It pisses me off how the new guys are hung out to dry, while the established players have all been equally shite and stomping round in a huff, bitching in the background.

But we all know how this ends. It's already pretty obvious Stubbs is done, same way it was obvious Craig, Murray and Rae were done. The bile will ramp up, results will continue to be bad (god knows what Celtic will do to us) and he'll get sacked. Might as well do it now.

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28 minutes ago, RichardBuddie said:

I personally think AS has no chance this season due to his tactics, management style and the personnel he has collated. The big question for me is what do GLS/TF do about the situation? Or in other words how do they gamble, do they take the hit now and get rid or hold out and likely (based on form) take the inevitable hit later, I think they would gain far more kudos and respect by being strong now and getting rid.

If and I say if there are lessons to be learned maybe they GLS/TF need to structure the cont(r)acts better for management in future, say weighted in line with targets, risk/reward etc?

Do you or anyone posting on this forum know what provisos have been written into the contract?

Edited by smcc
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I agree with you, I really do. It pisses me off how quickly people got on Stubbs back, and how people were desperate for him to fail. It pisses me off how the new guys are hung out to dry, while the established players have all been equally shite and stomping round in a huff, bitching in the background.
But we all know how this ends. It's already pretty obvious Stubbs is done, same way it was obvious Craig, Murray and Rae were done. The bile will ramp up, results will continue to be bad (god knows what Celtic will do to us) and he'll get sacked. Might as well do it now.

I don’t want him to fail, Sure he’s probably a good guy and was a good player, you are not wrong BTW the ‘established’ players have not been great, however most of his signings have been shocking. Something is badly wrong though cause the swing from good to bad in three to four months is phenomenal!!
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I have never in my life wanted any saints manager or player to fail . All I want is to be able to see that they have the desire / ability / confidence to do the job to the best of their ability. Unfortunately I cannot see any of these traits in Stubbs & co . There appears to be no heart , leadership or tactical ability on show . His signings have for the most part been god awful and he does not seem to possess the man management skills needed in the modern game .

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Does anyone really believe that the new players are Premiership standard (not their fault)? Does anyone think that the man management has not fragmented the Club and left a whole raft of players disenchanted?

The manager started the job with a very high risk strategy - bring in loads of young,  physical unknowns from English football and see what they can do. It is blatantly obvious that the strategy is not working. Results have been poor but more importantly performances have been shocking with no signs of improvement. And I am including LC games against lesser teams. The squad is simply not up to standard due to extremely naive recruitment.

Maybe admitting he signed too many inexperienced players and giving those he pissed off a cuddle and start using 'we' instead of 'the players' may help give him a wee bit more time as he recognises the problems and at least seems to be trying to move forward. At the moment there are no signs of anything improving anytime soon. If I was AS I would be asking for an interview on Free Buddievision right now and hold my hands up and try and reassure fans that things will change.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Does anyone really believe that the new players are Premiership standard (not their fault)? Does anyone think that the man management has not fragmented the Club and left a whole raft of players disenchanted?

The manager started the job with a very high risk strategy - bring in loads of young,  physical unknowns from English football and see what they can do. It is blatantly obvious that the strategy is not working. Results have been poor but more importantly performances have been shocking with no signs of improvement. And I am including LC games against lesser teams. The squad is simply not up to standard due to extremely naive recruitment.

Maybe admitting he signed too many inexperienced players and giving those he pissed off a cuddle and start using 'we' instead of 'the players' may help give him a wee bit more time as he recognises the problems and at least seems to be trying to move forward. At the moment there are no signs of anything improving anytime soon. If I was AS I would be asking for an interview on Free Buddievision right now and hold my hands up and try and reassure fans that things will change.

 

I want a cuddle.

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I see that the usual post match interview on the St. Mirren twitter page hasn’t been posted tonight... I hope thats a sign that this clown is away.

I really have no idea why he was given a 3 year deal, madness. Jack Ross leaving proves that these contracts mean nothing, if a bigger team wants our manager & he wants to leave, he goes. The only thing a 3 year deal to a manager does is cost you a f**king fortune when it goes spectacularly wrong, like it has now.

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2 hours ago, DLBud said:

 

Serious question. What if he won’t compromise and we need to fire him and pay his contract (and those of Rice and Jackson) up in full?

 

Any idea how much that will cost? Where will the money come from?

 

It’s easy for a supporter to make a “decision” on what needs to be done as they have no skin in the game but GLS and Tony have a decision to make and whatever they decide will have ramifications for a lot longer than we will be discussing Alan Stubbs.

 

I’m not saying he shouldn’t go, by the way. I’d just rather we didn’t have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

He doesn’t really have that power. We don’t need to pay his contract up if we don’t want to. Well within our right to relieve him of his managerial duties and keep paying him a wage. However it will be a pretty penny regardless. The thing is he can’t take another job at all while under contract so we might try and do a mutual agreement but it’s all ifs and buts. 

 

As for GLS and Fitzpatrick, if it was them that made the decision on the three year deal which I imagine it was then the blame is completely with them. A blind man could see that Stubbs wasn’t the right man for this job and even more so a three year contract was insanity. 

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