Club statement please on police activity in W7

[oaksoft]

6 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

You are watched everyone is whether that be CCTV , email , social media what is surprising is you don't know that. Your phone is tapped also it can be listened to whenever the authorities want to. Jeez you must live in a wee bubble. 

Oh you do like your conspiracy theories IOBS. 

Let me put this in some context for you because unlike you, I am in a position to know a few things.

Every day there are billions of phone calls, texts and emails sent. Billions. There are not enough humans alive to be able to go throguh each and every one of them. The number of social media posts dwarves that. Dont even get me started on CCTV. You can barely even make out faces on CCTV never mind have some individual identify you personally.

So how do the authorities deal with all of this? They clearly cant watch everyone or everything. They use automation and look for red flags and only then do they start to close in on individuals. These W7 guys must have given them some cause for concern. One of them has posted something under or said something to trigger interest. In other words, any police interest in them is going to be self inflicted. Hence my advice. Whoever is doing stuff to alert the police need to f**king grown up and stop it. If they do, the 9am visits will disappear as though by magic.

So, I think you can rest easy.

[Doakes]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Years of experience have told me that the Police dont typically turn up early morning at the doors of people for absolutely no reason. Someone somewhere is giving them cause for concern.

Whoever it is, f**king stop it and also stop bullshitting about how innocent you are.

Ok I’ll bite. 

So what you’re insinuating is that people in W7 are part of some well hidden illegal activities and deserve to be disturbed at 9am? 

No one is bullshitting about how innocent they are, no one has done anything wrong.  

If we’d been involved in any issues previously I could maybe accept your dig - but please enlighten me, what exactly is the crime?

For clarity, a member of the groups house was visited , the police warned about “organised violence”, when was the last time our fans have got involved in anything like that? Certainly not in recent memory and anyone that’s stood with us at games would know that the group is nothing like that.

W7 is family friendly, lots of young fans waving flags, singing etc. Some of the banners might be on the edge of what’s acceptable, but that’s what makes it fun. Take fun away and you’ve officially ruined Scottish football. 

Stop making out that there’s some deep rooted issue within our support. We have one of the most vocal supports in Scotland, but also one of the best behaved. It’s comments like yours that damage the clubs reputation when the media go seeking a story that isn’t actually there. 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Doakes

[oaksoft]

1 minute ago, Doakes said:

Ok I’ll bite. 

So what you’re insinuating is that people in W7 are part of some well hidden illegal activities and deserve to be disturbed at 9am? 

No one is bullshitting about how innocent they are, no one has done anything wrong.  

If we’d been involved in any issues previously I could maybe accept your dig - but please enlighten me, what exactly is the crime?

For clarity, a member of the groups house was visited , the police warned about “organised violence”, when was the last time our fans have got involved in anything like that? Certainly not in recent memory and anyone that’s stood with us at games would know that the group is nothing like that.

W7 is family friendly, lots of young fans waving flags, singing etc. Some of the banners might be on the edge of what’s acceptable, but that’s what makes it fun. Take fun away and you’ve officially ruined Scottish football. 

Stop making out that there’s some deep rooted issue within our support. We have one of the most vocal supports in Scotland, but also one of the best behaved. It’s comments like yours that damage the clubs reputation when the media go seeking a story that isn’t actually there. 

I will stop you right there. Your second sentence is wrong and the rest of what follows is based on that.

I didn't say anyone was doing anythig illegal.

[oaksoft]

1 minute ago, helpmaboab said:

Oaky did the police call on you when you said you were in favour of killing unborn babies? 

Yes. They popped round to tell me that my opinion was correct and in line with 80% of the population. They also said the other 20% were religious fruitcakes whose opinions deserved to be ignored.

[Doakes]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

I will stop you right there. Your second sentence is wrong and the rest of what follows is based on that.

I didn't say anyone was doing anythig illegal.

So why insinuate that we deserve to be red flagged or trigger the interest of the police, if we’re not doing anything illegal? 

On the whole I think you raise some good points on here, but you’re well off the mark with this one 

[St.Ricky]

As hinted at in other posts there's are areas where the club has a duty to cooperate with various authorities or be in some circumstances culpable on a company or individual basis.  Intelligence gathering is a very important part  of police work and has been for many years.  There are now new tools that can be and are being used to identify and help take action against antisocial or criminal behaviour.  Collectively,  the folks in W7 are doing a great job.  I don't know the people involved and wouldn't want to either accuse or absolve any from any potential missdeeds. I wouldn't either want to draw too many conclusions from where they currently live.. Council Estate, Private Landlord or Owner Occupier. Let the authorities do their work and yes,  ultimately hold them accountable for their actions as is the right of each of us.  Meanwhile... Represent yourself and the club by acting with dignity and respect  for others and W7 will do us proud.  

[st jock]

Quite right. I am forgetting the working class code. The police are always scum and the people they target are saltoftheearth types who are just minding their own business. Always back your own type and never grass to the police.
This attitude brings back so many memories of living on a council estate. Shut my eyes and its just like being back there.

I often find myself agreeing with your posts Oaky, however I don't understand your reference to 'living on a council estate '. My family, a lot of my friends and colleagues live on council estates. What 'attitudes' are you hinting at?

[ford prefect]

I often find myself agreeing with your posts Oaky, however I don't understand your reference to 'living on a council estate '. My family, a lot of my friends and colleagues live on council estates. What 'attitudes' are you hinting at?

You're wasting your time there. He is one of the people who believes he's "middle class" (whatever that is") votes tory and is somehow better than people from council estates. Despite having to still work for a living just the same as the rest of us

[Kemp]

2 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

I don't often agree with oaksoft but I think he's right here. I honestly can't see the police turning up at your door because you sit in W7 enjoying a singalong. I think there's something deeper in this.

This could literally be 3 people's houses being checked and it's being made out to be the masses. I would/will be appalled if this is for no reason at all, but I reckon there is a proper reason behind this, quite possibly with bugger all to do with football unless they've been found to be acting violent towards opposition fans or something along those lines.

You have quite a lot learn about the criminilsation of football fans and abuses of authority by the police then.

[SaintGlenburn]

Is the club allowed to release such information without asking permission?

My thoughts exactly mate.

[SaintGlenburn]

The Police have the power to get personal information from the Club for the prevention and detection of crime, I’m assuming that this legal gateway they will have used to get the info, having said that if it was just a general chat then it would, in my opinion, been more appropriate for the club to arrange a meeting with the W7 group, the police and the SLO.
That way the conversation could have taken place, been properly minuted and actions agreed between the parties with the minimum of personal information been given to the Police. 
My son has a ticket for W7 and when we got promoted I warned him that the methods of Policing would be radically different this year and things that they were able to do last season would be looked at differently this season. 

Im sure the club have the right to tell them to go take a f**k to themselves. They could have at least written to the organisers of the group and requested this.
f**king shambolic.

[SaintGlenburn]

Years of experience have told me that the Police dont typically turn up early morning at the doors of people for absolutely no reason. Someone somewhere is giving them cause for concern.
Whoever it is, f**king stop it and also stop bullshitting about how innocent you are.

Experience of what? Except being a complete fanny on here.

If your that sure they have broken the law and big enough to attempt to warn them then put your name to it like a man.
Otherwise pipe down and stop getting above yourself.

[SaintGlenburn]

As hinted at in other posts there's are areas where the club has a duty to cooperate with various authorities or be in some circumstances culpable on a company or individual basis.  Intelligence gathering is a very important part  of police work and has been for many years.  There are now new tools that can be and are being used to identify and help take action against antisocial or criminal behaviour.  Collectively,  the folks in W7 are doing a great job.  I don't know the people involved and wouldn't want to either accuse or absolve any from any potential missdeeds. I wouldn't either want to draw too many conclusions from where they currently live.. Council Estate, Private Landlord or Owner Occupier. Let the authorities do their work and yes,  ultimately hold them accountable for their actions as is the right of each of us.  Meanwhile... Represent yourself and the club by acting with dignity and respect  for others and W7 will do us proud.  

Disagree there ricky. Its the first part the club done wrong. If the were intent on cooperating with the police. Why didnt they write/call the member(s) and ask to share their details or even invite them to the club for a discussion with the police?

Getting a cold chap at the door at what should be your own safe space is f**king unacceptable. Especially if no crime was suspected.

Imagine that was your house. You may have complete judgemental arsehole neighbours like Oaky. Youd be branded a criminal.

[St.Ricky]

12 minutes ago, SaintGlenburn said:

Disagree there ricky. Its the first part the club done wrong. If the were intent on cooperating with the police. Why didnt they write/call the member(s) and ask to share their details or even invite them to the club for a discussion with the police?

Getting a cold chap at the door at what should be your own safe space is f**king unacceptable. Especially if no crime was suspected.

Imagine that was your house. You may have complete judgemental arsehole neighbours like Oaky. Youd be branded a criminal.

Glenburn.  There are areas where the club and officials,  as in any company,  are required to notify and/or support the police.  Failure to-do so in these circumstances could leave staff, directors and/or the club liable to fines or potential imprisonment.  The forum is not the place to debate these however if a police investigation is underway. Would I like that knock on the door?  No.

Edited August 26, 2018 by St.Ricky

[Hendo]

15 minutes ago, SaintGlenburn said:

Disagree there ricky. Its the first part the club done wrong. If the were intent on cooperating with the police. Why didnt they write/call the member(s) and ask to share their details or even invite them to the club for a discussion with the police?

Getting a cold chap at the door at what should be your own safe space is f**king unacceptable. Especially if no crime was suspected.

Imagine that was your house. You may have complete judgemental arsehole neighbours like Oaky. Youd be branded a criminal.

The police also can be a bit over jealous at times in executing their duties, so it may be the club gave the details in good faith and pc plod thought he'd go in heavy handed. 

I remember once being woken up at midnight by two cops serving a witness citation because 'it's quiet tonight'. I thought someone had died. 

[SaintGlenburn]

Glenburn.  There are areas where the club and officials,  as in any company,  are required to notify and/or support the police.  Failure to-do so in these circumstances could leave staff, directors and/or the club liable to fines or potential imprisonment.  The forum is not the place to debate these however if a police investigation is underway. Would I like that knock on the door?  No.

Police investigate crime though Ricky. Would they not have to show proper cause?

If for instance someone in W7 assaulted someone, threw anything from one stand to the next (does not include snowballs) or basically suspected of committing a criminal offence then 100% address given and season ticket cancelled if they were guilty. This is not the case hence why it is wrong in every way possible.

If it was your address and details that were passed to the police im sure you wouldnt be slow in telling them to beat it.

[pozbaird]

The police asked the club to provide evidence of criminal behaviour within the stadium this season....

 

[SaintGlenburn]

The police also can be a bit over jealous at times in executing their duties, so it may be the club gave the details in good faith and pc plod thought he'd go in heavy handed. 
I remember once being woken up at midnight by two cops serving a witness citation because 'it's quiet tonight'. I thought someone had died. 

FFS. Thats not good.

See thats what they done wrong. Aye here's a few addresses lads crack on. If the club were under any official obligation to pass personal details as Ricky sort of suggested then they should have offered a meeting with this group.

A bit half arsed. Imagine your son/daughter away to work or school and the polis chap at 9am.... id freak ma beans.

[St.Ricky]

Just now, SaintGlenburn said:

Police investigate crime though Ricky. Would they not have to show proper cause?

If for instance someone in W7 assaulted someone, threw anything from one stand to the next (does not include snowballs) or basically suspected of committing a criminal offence then 100% address given and season ticket cancelled if they were guilty. This is not the case hence why it is wrong in every way possible.

If it was your address and details that were passed to the police im sure you wouldnt be slow in telling them to beat it.

Glenburn.  Two scenarios. One a potential for a crime to be committed or having been committed.  I repeat. There are areas of the law where the club or individials in the club might be considered to be breaking the law if they failed to cooperate or in some instances notify the authorities. Sorry I can't say more on a forum. Cases being handled by the police are sensitive and comments thought to be preducial could lead to action against those making themm The other a preventative measure. Without commenting on the 3 instances themselves for example police issued travel bans ahead of the world cup. 

[SaintGlenburn]

Glenburn.  Two scenarios. One a potential for a crime to be committed or having been committed.  I repeat. There are areas of the law where the club or individials in the club might be considered to be breaking the law if they failed to cooperate or in some instances notify the authorities. Sorry I can't say more on a forum. Cases being handled by the police are sensitive and comments thought to be preducial could lead to action against those making themm The other a preventative measure. Without commenting on the 3 instances themselves for example police issued travel bans ahead of the world cup. 

You can say more Ricky. Safe space is this app. There is no season ticket registered under St Ricky or GlenburnSaint. [emoji12]

 

Ill put it out there now that i will be in Paisley town next saturday between 7pm and 11pm drinking alchohol.

I shall await the chap on my door as i could be consisered a potential drunk and disorderly, drink driver or heaven forbid commit drunken murder.

 

On a serious note i get where you are coming from mate, i really do. I just hand on heart honestly think its pish. Well if scenario 1 is the reason.

 

Eta - at least you look at it from an open mind rather than assume they are upto something.

 

Not pointing elbows.

 

Oaky [emoji123]

[DumboBud]

1 hour ago, SaintGlenburn said:

Im sure the club have the right to tell them to go take a f**k to themselves. They could have at least written to the organisers of the group and requested this.
f**king shambolic.

Unfortunately if, and it is an if at this stage, the police had requested the info and said it was for the prevention or detection of crime then the club would need to hand over the personal details. 

As I stated though I would be very disappointed if the club when approached by the police didn’t at the very least offer to set up a 3 way meeting so that everyone was fully aware of their rights and obligations, to ensure the safety of the members of the W7 group and to ensure that they didn’t inadvertently step over a line that could leave them open to arrest or being thrown out a ground. 

Unfortunately due to what the W7 group do they are potentially making themselves a target for the nutters in other supports and while Police Scotland should be targeting the nutters elsewhere, they should also be looking to ensure the safety of our fans. 

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

Glenburn.  Two scenarios. One a potential for a crime to be committed or having been committed.  I repeat. There are areas of the law where the club or individials in the club might be considered to be breaking the law if they failed to cooperate or in some instances notify the authorities. Sorry I can't say more on a forum. Cases being handled by the police are sensitive and comments thought to be preducial could lead to action against those making themm The other a preventative measure. Without commenting on the 3 instances themselves for example police issued travel bans ahead of the world cup. 

Let's be honest....

 

You're feckin' pissed,... aren't you?

[Hambud]

Glenburn.  Two scenarios. One a potential for a crime to be committed or having been committed.  I repeat. There are areas of the law where the club or individials in the club might be considered to be breaking the law if they failed to cooperate or in some instances notify the authorities. Sorry I can't say more on a forum. Cases being handled by the police are sensitive and comments thought to be preducial could lead to action against those making themm The other a preventative measure. Without commenting on the 3 instances themselves for example police issued travel bans ahead of the world cup. 

3 instances of Saints fans being prevented from travelling to the World Cup?

[St.Ricky]

29 minutes ago, Hambud said:

2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Glenburn.  Two scenarios. One a potential for a crime to be committed or having been committed.  I repeat. There are areas of the law where the club or individials in the club might be considered to be breaking the law if they failed to cooperate or in some instances notify the authorities. Sorry I can't say more on a forum. Cases being handled by the police are sensitive and comments thought to be preducial could lead to action against those making themm The other a preventative measure. Without commenting on the 3 instances themselves for example police issued travel bans ahead of the world cup. 

3 instances of Saints fans being prevented from travelling to the World Cup?

Now,  now.  Read it again.  Don't tell me you can't follow a simple sentence. 

For St Lucy's benefit.... I don't drink. 

It's clear that you have little knowledge and less interest in following the discussion. 

No more comment from me on this....enough said already. 

[stlucifer]

4 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Now,  now.  Read it again.  Don't tell me you can't follow a simple sentence. 

For St Lucy's benefit.... I don't drink. 

It's clear that you have little knowledge and less interest in following the discussion. 

No more comment from me on this....enough said already. 

Alright stricky. So no excuse for posting absolute pish? OK. Nothing new then. Here was me trying to give you a "get out of jail free card".