Club statement please on police activity in W7

[TediousTom]

4 hours ago, Suggestion said:

 

We’re not criminals and will not be treated as such. 

 

 

I think that last sentence sums it all up perfectly.

 

Its just like our club to soil what was really such a great night with such utter stupidity.

 

 

 

[Buddieloyal]

The fact is unless a crime was committed by any of theese boys the police and club are in breach of courts and criminal justice act 2015 private companies and also corporations are not to be assisted by the police theres a major complaint in there for josh as he was bullied and harrassed for no reason. Take this how you will.

[pozbaird]

I fail to see why that banner was removed. On what grounds could it have been deemed offensive?

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

2 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

I fail to see why that banner was removed. On what grounds could it have been deemed offensive?

They’ll use the not peapproved excuse, so as not to appear defensive.

Which in turn leads us back to the questions of whether Celtic banners were preapproved and if not, why were they not confiscated.

[Cornwall_Saint]

1 hour ago, mattman said:

also celtics “shagger” banner, why was that not removed ? Surely if scum is so offensive so should shagger ?

 

Agree with this. Considering our non-offensive banner was removed, why is a banner with the word "shagger" allowed?

I know most people (including myself) wouldn't be bothered about it, but it's the case of one rule for us, another for them. Surely their banner is "worse"?

[E=Mc2]

1 hour ago, Buddieloyal said:

The fact is unless a crime was committed by any of theese boys the police and club are in breach of courts and criminal justice act 2015 private companies and also corporations are not to be assisted by the police theres a major complaint in there for josh as he was bullied and harrassed for no reason. Take this how you will.

I have been in a shop (a company's premises) when a customer who claimed she had a grievance became loud and refused to leave.

The retailer called the police who came.

The police asked the lady to leave and told her that her complaint was a matter for the Civil Courts.

If there are witnesses to a supporter being "bullied and harassed" by a steward then I believe the supporter is entitled to the protection of the police.

If the police were conducting themselves in a manner that could be construed as "bullying and harassing" then they should be subject of a complaint. 

If stewards are carrying out the wishes of the Football Club then it is for the Club (the company), if it wishes to have a good relationship with the supporters (it's customers), to explain their company's policy.

Were instructions given to stewards in all areas of the company's premises to remove all banners?

Were all banners removed? 

If not, what was the decision making process that banned some and allowed others?

Personally, I didn't notice from my seat in the main stand, the banner which was removed as I was too busy watching the game. 

My own opinion is that I would like to see every banner displayed to be supportive of St. Mirren FC and not critical of other teams, their supporters, or their choice of abode.

 

     

Edited September 16, 2018 by E=Mc2
typo

[pod]

10 minutes ago, E=Mc2 said:

 

My own opinion is that I would like to see every banner displayed to be supportive of St. Mirren FC and not critical of other teams, their supporters, or their choice of abode.

 

     

Your right, we shouldn't have to drag ourselves down to their level. Just my opinion. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Whether or not you agree with the banner, there was no reason to remove it. It's not offensive in any way.

Offense is always taken, never given.

I suppose it could be argued that any banner has the potential to offend someone, although like you I'm struggling to find anything offensive from the 3 words that were displayed.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I don't regard the fans as criminals in any way.  Again,  I love the noise and colour from W7. Keep it up guys.  My only thought is (and yes I have also said this before) keep any banners and/or songs supportive of the Team.  That's why we are there I believe.  Leave politics and religion outside the stadium.  However,  you should be and are able to question the club on its policies as are we all. 

Nothing political or religious in that banner that says 'Fans not criminals'

[LargsBud]

The irony of it is that the club have made a bigger deal and generated significantly more attention towards the banner than if they had just left it.

Everybody knows exactly what the banner said. When its seen its seen. Taking it down after 30 seconds isn't going to wipe peoples memory.

Its now all over twitter and significantly publicised because of the ridiculous reaction by the club over this.  We wouldn't have reached 9 pages of discussion about the matter if the club  had just left it.

Edited September 16, 2018 by LargsBud

[St.Ricky]

14 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

4 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

I don't regard the fans as criminals in any way.  Again,  I love the noise and colour from W7. Keep it up guys.  My only thought is (and yes I have also said this before) keep any banners and/or songs supportive of the Team.  That's why we are there I believe.  Leave politics and religion outside the stadium.  However,  you should be and are able to question the club on its policies as are we all. 

Nothing political or religious in that banner that says 'Fans not criminals'

I tend towards the view that this was political with a small p. But.. as I said. The guys are free to discuss these things with the board.  Again.. I praise the guys inW7 for thenoiseand colour they bring and 99 per cent of the time they get it spot on. 

[Doakes]

2 hours ago, pod said:

Your right, we shouldn't have to drag ourselves down to their level. Just my opinion. 

Even though I disagree with your point, you’ve actually hit the nail on the head. This “one size fits all” policy the police and clubs are using IS dragging us down to their level.

The banner was made because St Mirren supporters are being directly targeted by police about organised violence and the like, despite not being involved in anything like that previously, it’s not what we’re about. 

Our club should be backing us up on that. They know as well as you do that we’re not hooligans. 

It’s not claiming we’re victims or stopping the police from doing their jobs - it’s simply asking to be treated fairly and not ASSUMED to be trouble makers. 

People who sing at football = bad seems to be a UK wide issue.

Police tactics need to be changed and the banner was the only way of getting that message across

[beyond our ken]

none of this is of any consequence

It was a good game and a good result

[Callum Gilhooley]

none of this is of any consequence
It was a good game and a good result

Of course it is of consequence.

Your second sentence however is not. This is The general St.mirren section of the forum , what you reference in your second sentence is well discussed in the match day thread.

If you feel it’s inconsequential, feel free to leave the debate.

[Lord Pityme]

1 hour ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

 

Of course it is of consequence.

Your second sentence however is not. This is The general St.mirren section of the forum , what you reference in your second sentence is well discussed in the match day thread.

If you feel it’s inconsequential, feel free to leave the debate.

 

On reflection..... naw go fiuck yoursellf

[East Lothian Saint]

8 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Leave politics and religion outside the stadium. 

"Fans not Criminals". This statement is in no way Political, political with a small p or religious. Neither is it offensive. It is clearly club related as rightly or wrongly some fans feel aggrieved at being singled out by the police. This attention has been aggravated by the fact the club allegedly pointed the police in their direction. 

Now I have no idea if W7 are plotting mayhem. I find it incredulous that they are being targeted as plausible informants in the war against crime or that specific Police officers have been tasked with monitoring their activities and following them "wherever St mirren go". Maybe they are real bad boys who are up to no good. From personal experience, I doubt it BUT

To be honest that's  irrelevant. The big issue here is the erosion of our basic freedoms. 

Criminals have a rights but it seems to me Football fans Don't.

Protesting your innocence is one of the key tenets of our society. Innocent till proven guilty and all that. Okay if they had staged a "dirty protest" or climbed onto the roof of the stands to protest then someone would have to take action but they waved a wee banner and someone decided that was wrong. Who? Why?

If a real bad ass criminal decided to stand outside Paisley Sheriff court with a banner saying I'm Innocent and the authorities took it off them, the civil rights movements would be up in arms and no doubt riots would follow.

Just because your a football fan doesn't mean you don't have rights.

Absolutely shocking decision to remove that banner IMO.

It presented no danger or offence  to anyone and removing it, placed fans in the vicinity in more danger than leaving it in place. 

Was it worth the risk?

 

[beyond our ken]

1 hour ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

 

Of course it is of consequence.

Your second sentence however is not. This is The general St.mirren section of the forum , what you reference in your second sentence is well discussed in the match day thread.

If you feel it’s inconsequential, feel free to leave the debate.

 

Oh, get outta here!  People complaining about the stifling of free speech moving on to tell others where they can post and on what subject.  Boo Hiss to you pantomine villains and born-again human rights activists.

For the record, the home visits were a clanger dropped by the cops, not the club or the fellow fans.  Those visited got there column inches and I really think this is now one they want to leave well alone.  Choosing a televised game to highlight an issue very few non-saints fans can get aerated about was always going to challenge the club's resolve.

 the removal of a banner they didn't have permission to show is hardly going to be the worst thing to happen in these people's lives.  i almost said young people, but that would be an assumption too far.  It's only as bad a thing as people are are determined to make it.

It's not much of a debate mind you, more an exchange of very entrenched views.  I can see the valid the point the club made in removing the banner and can also see the massive clanger they dropped by "confiscating" it.   A simple "you've made your point, now put it away" would have sufficed.  It's clear, though, that the club doesn't seem to mess around when it comes to the banners and the W7ers seem determined to push the envelope and then try to rope everyone else in to the protest when the inevitable happens.  The people who have commented that the solidarity shown by celtic fans, who REALLY deserve to be looked at is not necessarily a good thing have a very good point.

[beyond our ken]

11 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

"Fans not Criminals". This statement is in no way Political, political with a small p or religious.

I feel it is more a socio-political issue in the forum of public opinion.  

 

To be honest that's  irrelevant. 

FFS watch yourself, they'll be trying to deport you to another thread if you keep that up

Criminals have a rights but it seems to me Football fans Don't.

Football clubs, trying to walk the fine line of public opinion and the politicking of the police also have rights, but on this occassion their wishes were not respected.

 

Absolutely shocking decision to remove that banner IMO.

Agreed, 

It presented no danger or offence  to anyone and removing it, placed fans in the vicinity in more danger than leaving it in place. 

Was it worth the risk?

You were doing great 'til the end bit-was anyone REALLY at risk?

 

[East Lothian Saint]

2 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

You were doing great 'til the end bit-was anyone REALLY at risk?

A few peoples haircuts were obviously ruffled as the banner surfed up the terrace to avoid the stewards, some of whom actually broke into a jog to try and catch it.  Someone could have fallen over or had to comb their hair. 

Definitely a perilous situation.

16 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

It's clear, though, that the club doesn't seem to mess around when it comes to the banners and the W7ers seem determined to push the envelope and then try to rope everyone else in to the protest when the inevitable happens

The club need to be smarter and fight the right battles if they want to win the war. Someone made a bad decision here.

[rabuddies]

Is here a club policy on banners?  Has anybody asked?  Surely before going off on one people should establish the groundrules?

[East Lothian Saint]

8 minutes ago, rabuddies said:

Is here a club policy on banners?  Has anybody asked?  Surely before going off on one people should establish the groundrules?

BANNERS and/or other articles which could, or might be used as a weapon, or cause annoyance or unnecessary obstruction or offence and/or which may cause or contribute to Unacceptable Conduct are not permitted within the ground.

[rabuddies]

Just now, East Lothian Saint said:

BANNERS and/or other articles which could, or might be used as a weapon, or cause annoyance or unnecessary obstruction or offence and/or which may cause or contribute to Unacceptable Conduct are not permitted within the ground.

So no banners allowed into the ground at all then?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

BANNERS and/or other articles which could, or might be used as a weapon, or cause annoyance or unnecessary obstruction or offence and/or which may cause or contribute to Unacceptable Conduct are not permitted within the ground.

Assuming the W7 guys need to get pre approval, makes me wonder how away fans get them into the ground?

[East Lothian Saint]

1 minute ago, rabuddies said:

So no banners allowed into the ground at all then?

A simple banner saying  "c'moan rabuddies" would be fine provided it wasn't adapted to be a weapon or obstruct views unless some English language freak was offended by the spelling.

[Buddieloyal]

You just have to look at some of the banners the GreetiN brigade used to put up which were political in recent time in relation to scottish gov. And no police intervention there. So there is stark contrast between a small group of football enthusiasts and i reckon it was due to our march for the champions that prob got there wee knickers in a twist because that was impressive.