Club statement please on police activity in W7

[div]

As an aside and back on topic;

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/2176-chairman-s-update-september-2018

[beyond our ken]

15 hours ago, john scott said:

It did look like the stewards were trying to grab a gun off somebody and not a fairly harmless banner.

There was a gun?

Way worse than I thought.  Wait until I tell the record.

[Maboza]

3 minutes ago, div said:

As an aside and back on topic;

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/2176-chairman-s-update-september-2018

Clears it up.  

Discussion took place prior to the match, permission to display the banner was refused. The fans in question went ahead anyway. 

Nothing to complain about when the banner was subsequently removed.  

[St.Ricky]

5 minutes ago, div said:

As an aside and back on topic;

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/2176-chairman-s-update-september-2018

This answers the request for a club statement.  Sensible,  balanced,progressive but firm.  We can all sign up to this. 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

18 September 2018

Chairman's Update - September 2018

 SMFC Webteam Saints News

I hope you all enjoyed the energy and passion that the team showed on Friday night as much as I did. Oran has been a breath of fresh air around the place since he arrived and I sense positivity beginning to grow around the club again.
It’s been a very difficult start to the season, and difficult decisions had to be made, but my fellow directors and I will never shirk away from our responsibilities. You can trust that every decision we make, affecting both on and off field issues, will always be taken with the best interests of the football club at heart.
Your support through your subscriptions to SMiSA, buying season tickets and merchandise and coming along to games in large numbers have given us the financial stability that allows us to make decisions that in the past may have been impossible due to budget restrictions.
We have been on an amazing journey over the last couple of years and we have all worked together to bring us to where we are right now. There’s no doubt that without that togetherness we would not have escaped relegation to League 1, nor would we have been so strong in leading from the front for virtually all of last season.
When we all work together and pull in the same direction we have a proven track record of success and that is something we must continue to do if we are to continue our forward trajectory and establish ourselves again in the top flight.
The atmosphere and home support on Friday night was superb and talking to Stephen McGinn after the game he commented that there were three or four times in the last 10 minutes where the crowd response gave the players a second, third and fourth wind.
That level of support going forward will be vital to the team. Oran himself pointed this out in his post-match interview. The players feed off the energy in the stands.
As usual the atmosphere was heavily influenced by the buddies congregated in W7 who, along with fellow supporters in the West and Main stands, created superb energy which the players responded to.
This atmosphere of positivity was however soured by the production of a banner in W7 which greatly disappointed me. On an evening where we should have been welcoming our new manager and a new era, instead we saw a negative message being displayed.
In the lead up to the game the group in W7 had asked us for permission to display the banner in question which we refused on grounds that the message it carried was absolutely nothing to do with the team, the manager or the club.
I’ve mentioned in my columns before that we have a very good working relationship with the police, which has been built up over many years.
It’s something we work very hard to maintain as it saves us tens of thousands of pounds a year in police free games. We cannot, and will not, risk that relationship being soured for the sake of political point scoring at our stadium.
Having already given clear pre-match advice that the banner was not permitted inside the stadium we had absolutely no option but to instruct the stewards to remove it when it then appeared in W7.
Many fans will have been unaware that this pre-match discussion had taken place.
I’ve seen plenty of social media comments criticising us for the removal of the banner, however we have to create rules, and adhere to those rules, otherwise chaos wins and we revert back to a heavy police presence at all home games and a bill to match.
That’s not something that any level headed St.Mirren fan wants to see as we continue to grow the family friendly experience at the Simple Digital Arena.
As I said in my opening paragraphs, we are far stronger when we all work together and there is no value at all in the W7 group and the club having a negative relationship.
In order to work together we must have trust. It takes a long time to build trust, but it can very quickly be broken.
We absolutely want to work together with the group to ensure that the W7 section continues to grow and to support the club and the team, but this must be done within the overall framework that the football club has to operate within which is governed by our own Safety Officers, the local Council and Police Scotland.
With communication, and a willingness to work together there is no reason why we can’t continue to grow the group and continue the positive impact they have had around the stadium but this is very much a two way street.
The group itself needs to appreciate the pressures that exist around the club and work with us rather than against us. Sometimes we will make unpopular decisions, but as I have already said, those decisions will be taken with the very best interests of the club at heart. We cannot and will not allow individuals to ignore the rules that every other supporter follows.
Each and every supporter who follows our club home or away is an ambassador of St.Mirren FC. Going forward I’d like to see the fans continue to self-police as we have done so successfully over many years.
It should also be a given in this modern age that supporters behaviour online can also reflect on the football club. When erroneous messages are given out they can be shared quickly and it can cause a wave of negativity that is sometimes hard to stop. While we cannot limit free speech we will not accept the individual victimisation of club staff who carry out their work for the benefit of our football club so our intention is to amend our policies to include online abuse of club staff within our unacceptable conduct rules.
We will seek to engage again with the W7 group and hope we can continue to work together going forward but this unfortunate episode has eroded some of our trust and has cast a cloud over what was a very positive night for the club.
Let’s get back to working together to create a positive atmosphere around the club that will help fuel more success going forward.
See you all at Hamilton.
#COYS

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

There was a gun?

Way worse than I thought.  Wait until I tell the record.

No need, they get all their articles on us from here anyway. 

[faraway saint]

10 minutes ago, Maboza said:

Clears it up.  

Discussion took place prior to the match, permission to display the banner was refused. The fans in question went ahead anyway. 

Nothing to complain about when the banner was subsequently removed.  

It does indeed.

Communication has been taking place yet, for whatever reason, this group went ahead.

Who decided this and why? 

Edited September 18, 2018 by faraway saint

[Sonny]

1 hour ago, saintnextlifetime said:

As far as the recent W7 senario is concerned at the moment , there would seem to be a couple of Human Rights violations . Human Rights are something you are legally entitled too. .

What Human Rights violations?

As I am bored repeating there are rule on what you can do at a venue. The owners make the rules and those entering must abide by them. W7 were told beforehand not to display the banner but they went ahead anyway so the banner was taken down and trust went down the pan.

[faraway saint]

10 minutes ago, Eric Arthur Blair said:

18 September 2018

Chairman's Update - September 2018

 SMFC Webteam Saints News

I hope you all enjoyed the energy and passion that the team showed on Friday night as much as I did. Oran has been a breath of fresh air around the place since he arrived and I sense positivity beginning to grow around the club again.
It’s been a very difficult start to the season, and difficult decisions had to be made, but my fellow directors and I will never shirk away from our responsibilities. You can trust that every decision we make, affecting both on and off field issues, will always be taken with the best interests of the football club at heart.
Your support through your subscriptions to SMiSA, buying season tickets and merchandise and coming along to games in large numbers have given us the financial stability that allows us to make decisions that in the past may have been impossible due to budget restrictions.
We have been on an amazing journey over the last couple of years and we have all worked together to bring us to where we are right now. There’s no doubt that without that togetherness we would not have escaped relegation to League 1, nor would we have been so strong in leading from the front for virtually all of last season.
When we all work together and pull in the same direction we have a proven track record of success and that is something we must continue to do if we are to continue our forward trajectory and establish ourselves again in the top flight.
The atmosphere and home support on Friday night was superb and talking to Stephen McGinn after the game he commented that there were three or four times in the last 10 minutes where the crowd response gave the players a second, third and fourth wind.
That level of support going forward will be vital to the team. Oran himself pointed this out in his post-match interview. The players feed off the energy in the stands.
As usual the atmosphere was heavily influenced by the buddies congregated in W7 who, along with fellow supporters in the West and Main stands, created superb energy which the players responded to.
This atmosphere of positivity was however soured by the production of a banner in W7 which greatly disappointed me. On an evening where we should have been welcoming our new manager and a new era, instead we saw a negative message being displayed.
In the lead up to the game the group in W7 had asked us for permission to display the banner in question which we refused on grounds that the message it carried was absolutely nothing to do with the team, the manager or the club.
I’ve mentioned in my columns before that we have a very good working relationship with the police, which has been built up over many years.
It’s something we work very hard to maintain as it saves us tens of thousands of pounds a year in police free games. We cannot, and will not, risk that relationship being soured for the sake of political point scoring at our stadium.
Having already given clear pre-match advice that the banner was not permitted inside the stadium we had absolutely no option but to instruct the stewards to remove it when it then appeared in W7.
Many fans will have been unaware that this pre-match discussion had taken place.
I’ve seen plenty of social media comments criticising us for the removal of the banner, however we have to create rules, and adhere to those rules, otherwise chaos wins and we revert back to a heavy police presence at all home games and a bill to match.
That’s not something that any level headed St.Mirren fan wants to see as we continue to grow the family friendly experience at the Simple Digital Arena.
As I said in my opening paragraphs, we are far stronger when we all work together and there is no value at all in the W7 group and the club having a negative relationship.
In order to work together we must have trust. It takes a long time to build trust, but it can very quickly be broken.
We absolutely want to work together with the group to ensure that the W7 section continues to grow and to support the club and the team, but this must be done within the overall framework that the football club has to operate within which is governed by our own Safety Officers, the local Council and Police Scotland.
With communication, and a willingness to work together there is no reason why we can’t continue to grow the group and continue the positive impact they have had around the stadium but this is very much a two way street.
The group itself needs to appreciate the pressures that exist around the club and work with us rather than against us. Sometimes we will make unpopular decisions, but as I have already said, those decisions will be taken with the very best interests of the club at heart. We cannot and will not allow individuals to ignore the rules that every other supporter follows.
Each and every supporter who follows our club home or away is an ambassador of St.Mirren FC. Going forward I’d like to see the fans continue to self-police as we have done so successfully over many years.
It should also be a given in this modern age that supporters behaviour online can also reflect on the football club. When erroneous messages are given out they can be shared quickly and it can cause a wave of negativity that is sometimes hard to stop. While we cannot limit free speech we will not accept the individual victimisation of club staff who carry out their work for the benefit of our football club so our intention is to amend our policies to include online abuse of club staff within our unacceptable conduct rules.
We will seek to engage again with the W7 group and hope we can continue to work together going forward but this unfortunate episode has eroded some of our trust and has cast a cloud over what was a very positive night for the club.
Let’s get back to working together to create a positive atmosphere around the club that will help fuel more success going forward.
See you all at Hamilton.
#COYS

Very well explained, and I'm not in the "GLS can do no wrong" group.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by faraway saint

[pozbaird]

W7 guys and the club just need to sit down and get it sorted. Should be simple enough to move on from this. I posted that I couldn’t see anything offensive on the banner. I still don’t, but if the club said ‘no’ in advance, the banner shouldn’t have been displayed. You can agree or disagree with the club saying ‘no’ to the banner, as is your right. Having said ‘no’ though, surely the way forward then was for the banner NOT to be displayed, then the W7 group to seek talks with the club.

Still holding it up, despite the club telling them not to, smacks of an attitude that says ‘fcuk you, we’re displaying it anyway’ - whether that was from a couple of individuals who thought that, or as a wider group-sanctioned action, who knows? I would hope that anyone who posted on here ‘disgraceful action from the stewards to remove this banner’ did so unaware that the banner had already been vetoed by the club. If anyone posted their outrage knowing full well the banner had been banned, then get a grip. You’ll know full well why the stewards acted as they did.

Surely any issues on both sides, can be discussed over a cuppa’ and sorted out? The W7 group are, in my opinion, very good with what they’ve been doing in a positive way at what was a somewhat soul-less stadium, but equally, the club have been doing well too, and acted swiftly to bag the Scouse dud and his sidekick... get it sorted lads. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by pozbaird

[faraway saint]

Just now, Sonny said:

What Human Rights violations?

As I am bored repeating there are rule on what you can do at a venue. The owners make the rules and those entering must abide by them. W7 were told beforehand not to display the banner but they went ahead anyway so the banner was taken down and trust went down the pan.

FFS don't, he'll come up with some vaguely related "violation" 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

14 minutes ago, div said:

As an aside and back on topic;

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/2176-chairman-s-update-september-2018

Good on Gordon clearing this up. Time to move on supporting the team. 

[linwood-bud]

“fans not criminals”

Fans of what?

Obviously not football or St Mirren.

This banner CLEARLY is not football related at all............

Lost for words with that statement.

[magnus]

 

 

22 minutes ago, div said:

As an aside and back on topic;

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/2176-chairman-s-update-september-2018

Good, clear statement. Makes sense and it looks like decent communications do exist between the Club and W7. Might be a bit of trust rebuilding required but surely very achievable. On to Hamilton.

[pozbaird]

3 minutes ago, magnus said:

 

 

Good, clear statement. Makes sense and it looks like decent communications do exist between the Club and W7. Might be a bit of trust rebuilding required but surely very achievable. On to Hamilton.

Exactly. It’s hardly Trump v Kim Jong Un, Israel v Palestine, or An umpire v Serena Williams. Should be relatively simple to find consensus between both parties.

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, magnus said:

 

 

Good, clear statement. Makes sense and it looks like decent communications do exist between the Club and W7. Might be a bit of trust rebuilding required but surely very achievable. On to Hamilton.

Something that wasn't disclosed from this group, allowing the pleas from many that this very thing should be happening.

Deliberate to paper over the fact that they were told this banner wouldn't be allowed and make them look the innocents? 

Disappointing. 

[div]

Personally I didn't really see any issue at all with the banner on Friday night, and was puzzled why it would have been removed.

I totally get that the guys (I've no idea how many are involved) who were visited at home by the Police are pissed off with it. They've done absolutely nothing wrong that I am aware of.

That gripe is with Police Scotland though as far as I can see, and shouldn't really be with the club?

Now that I see that discussion took place about displaying said banner on Friday before the game, having refused that request, the club couldn't do anything but ask for it to be removed when it was shown.

You can argue the rights and wrongs about the message the banner displayed all day long, but if the club said no then that's really the crux of the banner being taken down on Friday night.

A process of pre-approval has obviously been agreed between the club and the group and has worked up until now, so for the group to go against this was only really ever going to result in an outcome like this, which does nobody any good.

I'd really like to see the group get round a table with reps from the club, from the police and perhaps one of the SLO's to try and reach a sensible agreement that pulls us back from the brink of this getting totally out of hand.

The group have done wonderful things for the club, I really hope that continues and we can move on from this.

[oaksoft]

And so the utterly shocking news that the guys in W7 DID know full well why the banner was removed and have spent the last few days trying to persuade us that they had no idea why.

Bastards.

Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf folks.

Maybe next time we won't have 90% of the forum backing you up by default.

[shull]

32 minutes ago, div said:

As an aside and back on topic;

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/2176-chairman-s-update-september-2018

Outstanding. 

[Soctty]

Just now, div said:

Personally I didn't really see any issue at all with the banner on Friday night, and was puzzled why it would have been removed.

I totally get that the guys (I've no idea how many are involved) who were visited at home by the Police are pissed off with it. They've done absolutely nothing wrong that I am aware of.

That gripe is with Police Scotland though as far as I can see, and shouldn't really be with the club?

Now that I see that discussion took place about displaying said banner on Friday before the game, having refused that request, the club couldn't do anything but ask for it to be removed when it was shown.

You can argue the rights and wrongs about the message the banner displayed all day long, but if the club said no then that's really the crux of this.

A process of pre-approval has obviously been agreed between the club and has worked up until now, so for the group to go against this was only really ever going to result in an outcome like this, which does nobody any good.

I'd really like to see the group get round a table with reps from the club, from the police and perhaps one of the SLO's to try and reach a sensible agreement that pulls us back from the brink of this getting totally out of hand.

The group have done wonderful things for the club, I really hope that continues and we can move on from this.

The banner was political, not football related and had nothing to do with supporting the club.

An agreement whereby the club vet banners before games seems fair - what could be more straightforward?

Love the atmosphere W7 have brought to the ground and would hate for that to go, but there are always rules and they have to be adhered to.

[faraway saint]

I feel utterly sorry for the majority of this group, this has done some damage to the fantastic reputation they had, overall, with the support and club.

Who decided to go ahead and why?

Surely someone must have thought this wasn't going to end well after the club, as is their right, decided this shouldn't be shown?

Shambles IMO. 

 

[Iamhammer]

Find this part of the statement most interesting.

 

It should also be a given in this modern age that supporters behaviour online can also reflect on the football club. When erroneous messages are given out they can be shared quickly and it can cause a wave of negativity that is sometimes hard to stop. While we cannot limit free speech we will not accept the individual victimisation of club staff who carry out their work for the benefit of our football club so our intention is to amend our policies to include online abuse of club staff within our unacceptable conduct rules.

 

Div does this mean if someone is slagging off a individual player for making mistakes, and the ask for their registration details, you will give them ?

[faraway saint]

13 minutes ago, Iamhammer said:

Find this part of the statement most interesting.

 

It should also be a given in this modern age that supporters behaviour online can also reflect on the football club. When erroneous messages are given out they can be shared quickly and it can cause a wave of negativity that is sometimes hard to stop. While we cannot limit free speech we will not accept the individual victimisation of club staff who carry out their work for the benefit of our football club so our intention is to amend our policies to include online abuse of club staff within our unacceptable conduct rules.

 

Div does this mean if someone is slagging off a individual player for making mistakes, and the ask for their registration details, you will give them ?

I'd doubt that Div would have to, as there has been recent cases Facebook have refused to divulge details of people who are, seemingly, up to serious no good. 

PS Seems, due to term and conditions, Div would supply details. (See post 5 below this one)

Edited September 18, 2018 by faraway saint

[pozbaird]

It does throw up some questions though. At many clubs, fans, rightly or wrongly, have held up banners saying ‘Wenger Out’ or ‘Ashley Out’ or ‘Venky’s Out’. One would imagine that if the W7 guys had said in advance to the club that they wanted to display a banner saying ‘Stubbs Out’ that the club would surely have blocked it. As all W7 banners need to be club-approved, sanctioning such a banner would be the club themselves saying ‘Stubbs Out’. What if myself and a mate, in W3, nothing to do with a group who need prior approval, held up such a banner? Would club officials, sitting in the main stand, call stewards to remove something that isn’t offensive? They might not like it, but surely I would have the right to do it?

[Sonny]

Just now, pozbaird said:

It does throw up some questions though. At many clubs, fans, rightly or wrongly, have held up banners saying ‘Wenger Out’ or ‘Ashley Out’ or ‘Venky’s Out’. One would imagine that if the W7 guys had said in advance to the club that they wanted to display a banner saying ‘Stubbs Out’ that the club would surely have blocked it. As all W7 banners need to be club-approved, sanctioning such a banner would be the club themselves saying ‘Stubbs Out’. What if myself and a mate, in W3, nothing to do with a group who need prior approval, held up such a banner? Would club officials, sitting in the main stand, call stewards to remove something that isn’t offensive? They might not like it, but surely I would have the right to do it?

No, no, no. Unless you own the venue (stadium) you have no rights to display what you want without approval. You and your pal can sit in your garden and hold up your banner.