faraway saint Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 Just now, Sonny said: No, no, no. Unless you own the venue (stadium) you have no rights to display what you want without approval. You and your pal can sit in your garden and hold up your banner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted September 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, pozbaird said: It does throw up some questions though. At many clubs, fans, rightly or wrongly, have held up banners saying ‘Wenger Out’ or ‘Ashley Out’ or ‘Venky’s Out’. One would imagine that if the W7 guys had said in advance to the club that they wanted to display a banner saying ‘Stubbs Out’ that the club would surely have blocked it. As all W7 banners need to be club-approved, sanctioning such a banner would be the club themselves saying ‘Stubbs Out’. What if myself and a mate, in W3, nothing to do with a group who need prior approval, held up such a banner? Would club officials, sitting in the main stand, call stewards to remove something that isn’t offensive? They might not like it, but surely I would have the right to do it? Very valid points. Hopefully, the Club adopt a "modern" and balanced approach to this. Too much censorship and sanitisation would not be in the interest of a progressive community Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, Iamhammer said: Div does this mean if someone is slagging off a individual player for making mistakes, and the ask for their registration details, you will give them ? If I'm contacted by the police or by legal representatives regarding individual posts made here, or on P&B, then yes I will pass on details. This is noted in the terms and conditions of the website that everyone agreed to when registering (https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php?/privacy/) Specifically; Quote Sharing of Information Though we make every reasonable effort to preserve user privacy, we may need to disclose personal information about you in certain circumstances. Specifically, as exceptions to this Privacy Statement, we may need to, and will, without notice to you, release specific information about you or your account to comply with any valid legal process or in other special cases, such as, for example, an attempted breach of the security of the website or a physical threat to you or others. The club has never asked me to disclose information regarding individuals who post on here, and in fact there have only been a handful of occasions when they have contacted me and asked me to remove content. Given I've been doing this now for 16 years that isn't too bad IMO. Those occasions were, a bit like the stuff I removed last night, when content was bordering on being slanderous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 54 minutes ago, beyond our ken said: There was a gun? Way worse than I thought. Wait until I tell the record. Naw, naw, naw, naw,..........................................naw. One of banner holding guys asked of a flag grabbing steward, "Is that a gun in your pocket or are pleased to see me?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, E=Mc2 said: Naw, naw, naw, naw,..........................................naw. One of banner holding guys asked of a flag grabbing steward, "Is that a gun in your pocket or are pleased to see me?" FFS, has Poz hacked your account? If not, get to the doctors, and quick. Edited September 18, 2018 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Sonny said: No, no, no. Unless you own the venue (stadium) you have no rights to display what you want without approval. You and your pal can sit in your garden and hold up your banner. We did. It worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamhammer Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, div said: If I'm contacted by the police or by legal representatives regarding individual posts made here, or on P&B, then yes I will pass on details. This is noted in the terms and conditions of the website that everyone agreed to when registering (https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php?/privacy/) Specifically; The club has never asked me to disclose information regarding individuals who post on here, and in fact there have only been a handful of occasions when they have contacted me and asked me to remove content. Given I've been doing this now for 16 years that isn't too bad IMO. Those occasions were, a bit like the stuff I removed last night, when content was bordering on being slanderous Thanks for answering. I think by the club adding the ammendmend, you may find that number growing quite rapidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Iamhammer said: Thanks for answering. I think by the club adding the ammendmend, you may find that number growing quite rapidly. You were asking specifically about criticising players. That statement was not about criticism of players. It was about an online attack on a member of staff. Let's put it this way. If your behaviour warrants the police asking for your details from this website then frankly you probably deserve everything that will come your way. Edited September 18, 2018 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 Gerry Creaney was shite for us. Even Gerry wid agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madball Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, St.Ricky said: This answers the request for a club statement. Sensible, balanced,progressive but firm. We can all sign up to this. I disagree that it clears things up or that we can all sign up to it. I'll not defend the banner in light of the club explicitly refusing permission, however what prompted the banner was the club being complicit in providing details of supporters to police which infuriated many. For Gordon to talk about return to positive atmosphere at the ground then go on a extremely negative rant for around two thirds of his update about banners doesn't quite match up. Gordon said "This atmosphere of positivity was however soured by the production of a banner in W7 which greatly disappointed me". The banner was displayed during the game, and the majority knew nothing about it until either halftime via twitter or post game, so it didn't affect any positive atmosphere at all. In fact it was the actions of stewards at the behest of the directors that could've soured things further. Appreciate the need to be in compliance with Police and other regulatory bodies, however it is the compliant nature of the board without looking after fans interests that's not comfortable for me. I do understand that there could be cost of policing to be factored into their responses to Police, but seems like they have forgotten that fans are the lifeblood of the club and seems easier to piss them off. Oh and for what it's worth I sit in W2 and have no personal involvement with W7, but targeting an area that have been largely responsible for the increase in noise, positivity and encouragement to the players seems counterproductive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanyboy7598 Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 Just want to hold my hands up and say that linking that article wasn’t the right thing to do last night, it’s too easy to get drawn into a war online. Think my post was unclear last night but for the record if it caused offence I don’t believe there is any legal wrongdoing at the club and will stick to posting about Club related topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, faraway saint said: FFS, has Poz hacked your account? If not, get to the doctors, and quick. Strangely enough, on my way to the doctors and opticians for high blood pressure test, and double vision tests. I reckon Saints had twice as many shots on target as the papers say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 Just now, madball said: I disagree that it clears things up or that we can all sign up to it. I'll not defend the banner in light of the club explicitly refusing permission, however what prompted the banner was the club being complicit in providing details of supporters to police which infuriated many. For Gordon to talk about return to positive atmosphere at the ground then go on a extremely negative rant for around two thirds of his update about banners doesn't quite match up. Gordon said "This atmosphere of positivity was however soured by the production of a banner in W7 which greatly disappointed me". The banner was displayed during the game, and the majority knew nothing about it until either halftime via twitter or post game, so it didn't affect any positive atmosphere at all. In fact it was the actions of stewards at the behest of the directors that could've soured things further. Appreciate the need to be in compliance with Police and other regulatory bodies, however it is the compliant nature of the board without looking after fans interests that's not comfortable for me. I do understand that there could be cost of policing to be factored into their responses to Police, but seems like they have forgotten that fans are the lifeblood of the club and seems easier to piss them off. Oh and for what it's worth I sit in W2 and have no personal involvement with W7, but targeting an area that have been largely responsible for the increase in noise, positivity and encouragement to the players seems counterproductive. It's up to the W7 guys who deliberately displayed a banner they were told not to, to come on here and explain why they attempted to sabotage the relationship with the club. You are targetting the wrong people here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 minute ago, seanyboy7598 said: Just want to hold my hands up and say that linking that article wasn’t the right thing to do last night, it’s too easy to get drawn into a war online. Think my post was unclear last night but for the record if it caused offence I don’t believe there is any legal wrongdoing at the club and will stick to posting about Club related topics. IF it caused offence? IF? What a piss poor apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamhammer Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, oaksoft said: You were asking specifically about criticising players. That statement was not about criticism of players. It was about an online attack on a member of staff. Let's put it this way. If your behaviour warrants the police asking for your details from this website then frankly you probably deserve everything that will come your way. I wasn't asking about the police, I can see the club asking and some individual turning up at a game to find his season ticket revoked. Also who's to say the club won't class criticism of a player as an online attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood-bud Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, pozbaird said: It does throw up some questions though. At many clubs, fans, rightly or wrongly, have held up banners saying ‘Wenger Out’ or ‘Ashley Out’ or ‘Venky’s Out’. One would imagine that if the W7 guys had said in advance to the club that they wanted to display a banner saying ‘Stubbs Out’ that the club would surely have blocked it. As all W7 banners need to be club-approved, sanctioning such a banner would be the club themselves saying ‘Stubbs Out’. What if myself and a mate, in W3, nothing to do with a group who need prior approval, held up such a banner? Would club officials, sitting in the main stand, call stewards to remove something that isn’t offensive? They might not like it, but surely I would have the right to do it? Are there any other clubs in Britain that have to pre approve small banners being shown during a game? Even worse are there any fan owned clubs that insist on this? What if I want to bring a flag into the ground with “Saints” written on it, where do I apply for permission? Do I have to complete a disclosure Scotland before I can enter into the region known as W7? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, seanyboy7598 said: Just want to hold my hands up and say that linking that article wasn’t the right thing to do last night, it’s too easy to get drawn into a war online. Think my post was unclear last night but for the record if it caused offence I don’t believe there is any legal wrongdoing at the club and will stick to posting about Club related topics. We all make mistakes bud. Let's move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 Just now, linwood-bud said: Are there any other clubs in Britain that have to pre approve small banners being shown during a game? Even worse are there any fan owned clubs that insist on this? What if I want to bring a flag into the ground with “Saints” written on it, where do I apply for permission? Do I have to complete a disclosure Scotland before I can enter into the region known as W7? Was that not part of the conditions "agreed" when allowing W7 to be handed over as a section?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 This is all becoming a bit of a storm in a tea cup. I'm not sure that the decision not to allow the group to display the banner was proportionate in terms of the potential for difficulties to arise as a result. It seemed pretty innocuous to me, but I don't have responsibility for the running of the stadium, so not my call to make. On the flip side, I don't think the decision to prohibit the banner being displayed is as outrageous as some seem to be indicating. It was a judgement call, and sometimes these have to be made. As others have suggested, it would be hoped that it wouldn't take a great deal of pragmatism and common sense on the part of all parties to resolve this and allow us all to get on with furthering our shared aim of supporting the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madball Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, oaksoft said: It's up to the W7 guys who deliberately displayed a banner they were told not to, to come on here and explain why they attempted to sabotage the relationship with the club. You are targetting the wrong people here. You'll find that I do not agree with the banner being displayed as I said in my post. The relationship had already been soured by the club and this was a reaction to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanyboy7598 Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 IF it caused offence?IF? What a piss poor apology.Not looking for an argument mate but if you dont think that was sufficient then I’m not sure what else I can say. Simply admitting I was wrong to do that and will stick to what I know in the future. For the record, I believed that the knowledge was in the public domain so was available to everyone freely but I don’t want to get into that. As div has already said, I made a stupid mistake which I agree with and hope to learn from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, linwood-bud said: Are there any other clubs in Britain that have to pre approve small banners being shown during a game? Even worse are there any fan owned clubs that insist on this? What if I want to bring a flag into the ground with “Saints” written on it, where do I apply for permission? Do I have to complete a disclosure Scotland before I can enter into the region known as W7? A small but relevant point. St.Mirren FC is not fan owned. Yet. I know from reading various articles that Celtic's Green Brigade have to have every banner they plan to display pre-approved. Obviously they have also ignored the club in the past which led to their area being closed for a couple of matches as a result. The displaying of football related banners is not under question here. There have been dozens of great displays that the group in W7 have carried off without any incident. I've no idea what information the police asked the club for but I can't really imagine a scenario where the club would be allowed to tell them to fuck off. Similarly I doubt the cops would really have a hard time working out where individuals live. It's kind of their job. I'd certainly be pissed off if the police visited me at home and I had done absolutely nothing wrong, but my gripe would be with the police, not the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, linwood-bud said: Are there any other clubs in Britain that have to pre approve small banners being shown during a game? Even worse are there any fan owned clubs that insist on this? What if I want to bring a flag into the ground with “Saints” written on it, where do I apply for permission? Do I have to complete a disclosure Scotland before I can enter into the region known as W7? FFS. EVERY venue (and every Football Club) has entry rules of what those gaining entry can do. The management have the right to enforce or ignore any breaches of rules. In this case W7 were told no but decided to flagrantly ignore the instruction. St Mirren clearly state in their policies that banners supporting the team are admissible (and probably encouraged). Try reading the Club Policies for more information. https://www.stmirren.com/club/about-st-mirren/club-policies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/edumat/hreduseries/hereandnow/Part-5/8_udhr-abbr.htm[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 Probabaly not the only one. . Article 1 Right to Equality Article 2 Freedom from Discrimination Article 3 Right to Life, Liberty, Personal Security Article 4 Freedom from Slavery Article 5 Freedom from Torture and Degrading Treatment Article 6 Right to Recognition as a Person before the Law Article 7 Right to Equality before the Law Article 8 Right to Remedy by Competent Tribunal Article 9 Freedom from Arbitrary Arrest and Exile Article 10 Right to Fair Public Hearing Article 11 Right to be Considered Innocent until Proven Guilty Article 12 Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence Article 13 Right to Free Movement in and out of the Country Article 14 Right to Asylum in other Countries from Persecution Article 15 Right to a Nationality and the Freedom to Change It Article 16 Right to Marriage and Family Article 17 Right to Own Property Article 18 Freedom of Belief and Religion Article 19 Freedom of Opinion and Information Article 20 Right of Peaceful Assembly and Association Article 21 Right to Participate in Government and in Free Elections Article 22 Right to Social Security Article 23 Right to Desirable Work and to Join Trade Unions Article 24 Right to Rest and Leisure Article 25 Right to Adequate Living Standard Article 26 Right to Education Article 27 Right to Participate in the Cultural Life of Community Article 28 Right to a Social Order that Articulates this Document Article 29 Community Duties Essential to Free and Full Development Article 30 Freedom from State or Personal Interference in the above Rights [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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