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Club statement please on police activity in W7


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2 minutes ago, Sonny said:

I would suggest that if you ask you would get approval for the examples you give. But all banners will be at management discretion which is a common stance in any venue.

Not according to Scott! He said he only wants them if they are about "the club, the team, or the manager". So if you want to bring along a "Aren't The Board Lovely", or "Two 'o' Clock is plenty late enough to buy tickets" banner next time you are good to go!

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2 minutes ago, linwood-bud said:

The banner was in support of the fans, which to me, is in support of the club.

I disagree here linwood-bud…..it can't be in support of "the club" if "the club" have refused permission for the banner to be displayed. I have agreed with some of your other points but not this one!!

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10 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Doakes, just for clarification are you saying the SLO agreed before or after the club said no. I think there is a big distinction to be made here as, if taken the wrong way, you could be suggesting that he was agreeing with you after the instruction "no" was given by the club and therefore validating your actions. I don't think statements like these are left open to interpretation, we do have some mischievous wee monkeys around these parts!!

I’m saying that the SLO said the banner “should be fine”. After that we got a no from the club. 

We made a group decision to display the banner anyway, knowing that it wasn’t breaking any club policies. It’s more the aftermath that’s been the issue - obviously a lot of stuff has been said. 

Gordon replied to one of the group on Facebook which was a bit strange. This really needs to be resolved ASAP. Getting embarassing for everyone. I’ve suggested to the group that because I’m mainly only responsible for a twitter page promoting active support... I might be in a good position to provide a middle ground between W7 and the club. 

Whether that can happen I don’t know. Would like to avoid a further shit show if possible

if anyone from the club is reading this and wants to contact me, [email protected]

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1 minute ago, Doakes said:

I’m saying that the SLO said the banner “should be fine”. After that we got a no from the club. 

We made a group decision to display the banner anyway, knowing that it wasn’t breaking any club policies. It’s more the aftermath that’s been the issue - obviously a lot of stuff has been said. 

Gordon replied to one of the group on Facebook which was a bit strange. This really needs to be resolved ASAP. Getting embarassing for everyone. I’ve suggested to the group that because I’m mainly only responsible for a twitter page promoting active support... I might be in a good position to provide a middle ground between W7 and the club. 

Whether that can happen I don’t know. Would like to avoid a further shit show if possible

if anyone from the club is reading this and wants to contact me, [email protected]

Thanks for the clarification Doakes, as I said there are some who would/could use their interpretation as fact when it isn't what you meant.

I think getting round the table is probably the best way to go ………… having now read your second paragraph I wonder that "the group" hasn't got exactly what they were after. The SLO is a go-between and although an influencer certainly not a decision maker. If permission was denied and "the group" knowingly went against the wishes of the club then the banner would obviously be removed and therefore create a stooshie. 

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Regardless of the rights and wrongs, this whole episode is an absolute embarrassment to all the hard work everybody involved has put in to create this feel good atmosphere.

I cannot believe our chairman is arguing with a fan on the official club Facebook account...

I’d like to see our club addressing IRA singing and ‘inappropriate’ banners in our home stadium before ripping into our own on social media (although they were right to remove the banner).

 

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Guest TPAFKATS
Are there any other clubs in Britain that have to pre approve small banners being shown during a game?
Even worse are there any fan owned clubs that insist on this?
What if I want to bring a flag into the ground with “Saints” written on it, where do I apply for permission?
Do I have to complete a disclosure Scotland before I can enter into the region known as W7?
The club isn't fan owned... yet.

Gordon Scott is the majority shareholder and chairman and as such what he says goes.
If fans aren't happy they could always protest as they have with previous boards and managers.
Obvioysly any painted bedsheets would need to be pre approved [emoji6]
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1 hour ago, LargsBud said:

What a mess this has ended up. 

Ultimately this is first time the club has ever had to deal with any form of "ultras" group with banners smoke bombs etc. 

They club arent going to get their reaction correct straight away and there will be teething problems but they should look to get it right over time. They are making a bit of an arse of it at the moment and behaving like we are a tiny wee club. 

They should look at the way Celtic handle the GB and take lessons from that. They need to let more go and not shite themselves every time a banner goes a bit close to the bone. 

Really?

We should be taking lessons and allow the filth to pour?

FFS, I thought i'd heard it all. 

Edited by faraway saint
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What conspiracy theory is this meant to be? [emoji38] 
What is it you think the boys in W7 are plotting? Can’t wait to hear this. 
It's okay Doakes, I have more legal knowledge in my little finger than he has or ever will have in his lifetime. And that's fact, not opinion. I've also been a company secretary in the past and have a pretty good idea of obligations. That's why I feel utterly comfortable with what I originally said, and stand by it.
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16 minutes ago, Doakes said:

I’m saying that the SLO said the banner “should be fine”. After that we got a no from the club. 

We made a group decision to display the banner anyway, knowing that it wasn’t breaking any club policies. It’s more the aftermath that’s been the issue - obviously a lot of stuff has been said. 

Gordon replied to one of the group on Facebook which was a bit strange. This really needs to be resolved ASAP. Getting embarassing for everyone. I’ve suggested to the group that because I’m mainly only responsible for a twitter page promoting active support... I might be in a good position to provide a middle ground between W7 and the club. 

Whether that can happen I don’t know. Would like to avoid a further shit show if possible

if anyone from the club is reading this and wants to contact me, [email protected]

Doakes.  You know that I have and still do support the noise and colour provided by the folks in W7. I even contributed cash to the crowd funding appeal as did others. In return all that I would ask is that the group liase with and accept the rulings of the board..whether or not they like them. 

Rather than causing the club embarrassment,  this event has (rightly or wrongly) embarrassed those in W7 who can see things clearly.

The SLO did not and could not give assent. That lies with the Board. They rejected your request and I feel sure gave their reasons. W7, as you have said, decided to proceed. Now that worries me.

I won't be contributing to any further crowd funding activities until I see some discipline restored within the group. The banner at Ibrox and the one on Friday were embarrassing. 

There is an already established route for dialogue that should continue. It appears to be W7 or their Spokesperson speaks with the SLO who then speaks with the board and reports back. You seem to be suggesting that you sit with the board so bypassing the SLO. Not on for me.

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3 hours ago, Sonny said:

What Human Rights violations?

As I am bored repeating there are rule on what you can do at a venue. The owners make the rules and those entering must abide by them. W7 were told beforehand not to display the banner but they went ahead anyway so the banner was taken down and trust went down the pan.

At no time , when entering Saint Mirren Park or Love St , did I ever see a notice that said that by entering the stadium you were waiving your Human Rights. .

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Just now, TPAFKATS said:

The club isn't fan owned... yet.

Gordon Scott is the majority shareholder and chairman and as such what he says goes.
If fans aren't happy they could always protest as they have with previous boards and managers.
Obvioysly any painted bedsheets would need to be pre approved emoji6.png

I recall Hearts fans being asked to either hand over a banner or leave the precincts of the ground around 5-ish years ago.  It's not a new policy.

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Guest TPAFKATS
There is a framework. Banners should be in support of the team or permission should be sought. Pretty simple IMHO.
Mibees the fans were trying to make the point that they are supporters of the team and do not wish to be criminalised for this, particularly when they have done nothing illegal.
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This is the fall out we get for the Ugly sisters, we had kids with no scarfs Friday singing IRA guff in the Celtic End , I was pretty appalled. Yes we have had an internal incident and we are being plenty Vocal, but Celtic have no interest in the GB, just as Sevco have no interest in sanctioning their fans.

Lets see what UEFA make of their "support" this week.....

Image result for GREEN  BRIGADE DISGUSTING BANNER  Wonder if the Celtic BOD got approached on these

    

Edited by DougJamie
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Guest TPAFKATS
I recall Hearts fans being asked to either hand over a banner or leave the precincts of the ground around 5-ish years ago.  It's not a new policy.
I'm not sure what this reply has to do with my post?
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I’m saying that the SLO said the banner “should be fine”. After that we got a no from the club. 
We made a group decision to display the banner anyway, knowing that it wasn’t breaking any club policies. It’s more the aftermath that’s been the issue - obviously a lot of stuff has been said. 
Gordon replied to one of the group on Facebook which was a bit strange. This really needs to be resolved ASAP. Getting embarassing for everyone. I’ve suggested to the group that because I’m mainly only responsible for a twitter page promoting active support... I might be in a good position to provide a middle ground between W7 and the club. 
Whether that can happen I don’t know. Would like to avoid a further shit show if possible
if anyone from the club is reading this and wants to contact me, [email protected]
Might be a bit radical... But here's a wee suggestion...

If the club says "no", then simply respect that! Problem solved!

You say people feel as if they are being treated like naughty schoolchildren... well maybe if they didn't behave in that way they wouldn't be treated in that way.

What is the point of consultation if you (plural) are just going to do your own thing anyway?
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8 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Doakes.  You know that I have and still do support the noise and colour provided by the folks in W7. I even contributed cash to the crowd funding appeal as did others. In return all that I would ask is that the group liase with and accept the rulings of the board..whether or not they like them. 

Rather than causing the club embarrassment,  this event has (rightly or wrongly) embarrassed those in W7 who can see things clearly.

The SLO did not and could not give assent. That lies with the Board. They rejected your request and I feel sure gave their reasons. W7, as you have said, decided to proceed. Now that worries me.

I won't be contributing to any further crowd funding activities until I see some discipline restored within the group. The banner at Ibrox and the one on Friday were embarrassing. 

There is an already established route for dialogue that should continue. It appears to be W7 or their Spokesperson speaks with the SLO who then speaks with the board and reports back. You seem to be suggesting that you sit with the board so bypassing the SLO. Not on for me.

I can see where you're coming from. There's points that could be debated in what you're saying but as I said before - my aim is to resolve this in private, with the club. Whether that's the SLO, Gordon or anyone else, it seems necessary to avoid this escalating any further than it already has...

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3 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:
52 minutes ago, Sonny said:
There is a framework. Banners should be in support of the team or permission should be sought. Pretty simple IMHO.

Mibees the fans were trying to make the point that they are supporters of the team and do not wish to be criminalised for this, particularly when they have done nothing illegal.

I get that. The point is however the Club said they could not display that banner. And they did.

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2 minutes ago, Doakes said:

I can see where you're coming from. There's points that could be debated in what you're saying but as I said before - my aim is to resolve this in private, with the club. Whether that's the SLO, Gordon or anyone else, it seems necessary to avoid this escalating any further than it already has...

My advice, should you wish to take it is to speak with and through the SLO.  Unless your aim is to circumvent the process,  this should be adequate 

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11 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said:

At no time , when entering Saint Mirren Park or Love St , did I ever see a notice that said that by entering the stadium you were waiving your Human Rights. .

I am sure if I enter your home I have to abide by your house rules ie don't piss on the carpet or write on the walls. Are you depriving me of my Human Rights? No. It's your venue and you make the rules. Just like a cinema, shopping mall, museum and football stadium. St Mirren have all their behaviour policies displayed on their web site.

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4 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Might be a bit radical... But here's a wee suggestion...

If the club says "no", then simply respect that! Problem solved!

You say people feel as if they are being treated like naughty schoolchildren... well maybe if they didn't behave in that way they wouldn't be treated in that way.

What is the point of consultation if you (plural) are just going to do your own thing anyway?

Anyone in the group will confirm that I disagreed with the banner, but was a majority decision and I know why they made that decision. 

In Gordon's statement he mentioned that they cannot stop free speech, but also said that the banner was rejected. As far as I'm aware, there's never been any clear guidelines or rules about what banners they'll decline or accept. That's something I would like to discuss in private. Needs to be some level of trust built back up. At the moment, it's not there from either side.

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