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Club statement please on police activity in W7


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4 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said:

There isn't one about pissing on the carpet or writing on walls. .

Article 1 Right to Equality
Article 2 Freedom from Discrimination
Article 3 Right to Life, Liberty, Personal Security
Article 4 Freedom from Slavery
Article 5 Freedom from Torture and Degrading Treatment
Article 6 Right to Recognition as a Person before the Law
Article 7 Right to Equality before the Law
Article 8 Right to Remedy by Competent Tribunal
Article 9 Freedom from Arbitrary Arrest and Exile
Article 10 Right to Fair Public Hearing
Article 11 Right to be Considered Innocent until Proven Guilty
Article 12 Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
Article 13 Right to Free Movement in and out of the Country
Article 14 Right to Asylum in other Countries from Persecution
Article 15 Right to a Nationality and the Freedom to Change It
Article 16 Right to Marriage and Family
Article 17 Right to Own Property
Article 18 Freedom of Belief and Religion
Article 19 Freedom of Opinion and Information
Article 20 Right of Peaceful Assembly and Association
Article 21 Right to Participate in Government and in Free Elections
Article 22 Right to Social Security
Article 23 Right to Desirable Work and to Join Trade Unions
Article 24 Right to Rest and Leisure
Article 25 Right to Adequate Living Standard
Article 26 Right to Education
Article 27 Right to Participate in the Cultural Life of Community
Article 28 Right to a Social Order that Articulates this Document
Article 29 Community Duties Essential to Free and Full Development
Article 30 Freedom from State or Personal Interference in the above Rights

Nah... theres only three!

 

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1 hour ago, WeeBud said:

I disagree here linwood-bud…..it can't be in support of "the club" if "the club" have refused permission for the banner to be displayed. I have agreed with some of your other points but not this one!!

I understand where you’re coming from, but to me the fans are the club.

The club will continue to exist after all board members and chairman have left.

If the fans leave the club will cease to exist.

I know we are not quite fan owned yet, but when the fans own the club will we be allowed to show banners supporting the owners ( the fans)?

 

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Felt sorry for the guys in w7 but if they were told not to use the banner then they are at fault here can’t really complain when told not to show it then still do it anyway.

 

I get where the board are coming from as it saves us money on policing.

 

Could have just saved it for an away day.

 

They can’t really complain if the board decide to ban all future banners if this is the childish way they choose to act.

 

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If only we hadn't got promoted. Imagine...............

Jack Ross would probably still be in charge
Stubbsgate would never have happened
We wouldn't have agreed to give the family stand to the ugly sisters
Oran would still be at Coleraine
The St.Mirren Active lads wouldn't be getting home visits from the rozzers
No naughty banners would be getting flown
Gus would still be at Queens Park

It was all so EASY in the Championship. It was fun.

Maybe we're better off  being a diddy club :(
 

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How can Gordon say about saving money with Policing after agreeing with the police at the start of the season we need 2 officers at each game?? 

For what reason. 

This was the full reason this thread was created so the saving money bit is a load of nonsense just covering up the fact they have no back bone.

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6 minutes ago, div said:

If only we hadn't got promoted. Imagine...............

Jack Ross would probably still be in charge
Stubbsgate would never have happened
We wouldn't have agreed to give the family stand to the ugly sisters
Oran would still be at Coleraine
The St.Mirren Active lads wouldn't be getting home visits from the rozzers
No naughty banners would be getting flown
Gus would still be at Queens Park

It was all so EASY in the Championship. It was fun.

Maybe we're better off  being a diddy club :(
 

I think naughty banners were about in the Championship tbf.

Edited by magnus
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28 minutes ago, linwood-bud said:

I understand where you’re coming from, but to me the fans are the club.

The club will continue to exist after all board members and chairman have left.

If the fans leave the club will cease to exist.

I know we are not quite fan owned yet, but when the fans own the club will we be allowed to show banners supporting the owners ( the fans)?

 

Interesting points linwood-bud...my take on it is that the club is the club and we, the fans, support the club.

The club has existed for over 140 years and has lost many fans in that time as well as board members and chairmen, in the meantime we have had new fans, new board members and chairmen and will continue to do so. We are also talking about a couple of people in particular and a smallish group in W7, I think they are doing some things really well but are being a bit ham-fisted in this particular area......they do not represent "all" the fans in this particular issue although I don't think the club should take any fans lightly.

When we are "fan-owned" I would hope that the club would have similar rules re banners etc as are currently in place....the gripe is with the police and not the  club, the group has decided to throw a deaf ear to the club's board and I would hope that if the same thing happened after the buy-out the club's board would still act within the best interests of the club

Edited by WeeBud
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5 minutes ago, Suggestion said:

How can Gordon say about saving money with Policing after agreeing with the police at the start of the season we need 2 officers at each game?? 

For what reason. 

This was the full reason this thread was created so the saving money bit is a load of nonsense just covering up the fact they have no back bone.

What would have happened if the club had disagreed with the police and said we didn't need 2 officers at each game??

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Of course the fans are the club, that's absolutely spot on.

The fans don't typically send messages to themselves via banners though. The previous displays and banners that I remember have all been to do with encouraging the team and showing their support for either the players or the management.

The time, effort and expense that goes into making those happen is massive and I'm sure the vast majority of St.Mirren fans really appreciate that and what it has brought to the stadium which used to be a bit of a soulless experience if we are honest. The ground now has a wee bit history behind it, it's got some atmosphere at last and with the work that has taken place here and there it's looking better than it ever has. It's beginning to feel a wee bit like home now after nearly 10 years :thumbsup

This banner was a dig at the police, and possibly at the club for passing information to the police too. I don't think anyone doubts that is what the message was.

Maybe the club are too sensitive about the relationship with the police, I've no idea, but if they said no, which they did, then the group knew there were going to be consequences in their actions. They've decided, perhaps rightly so, that the consequences were worth the publicity that they've got about an issue they obviously feel very strongly about.

As I've said before, if a copper turned up at my house purely because I've been involved in a fans group that (to my knowledge anyway) has not been involved in any bother, I'd be pissed off but I'd be taking up my grievance with the police rather than the club.

Just seems the club are caught between the two at the moment, and it's not going to end well unless the relevant people get round a table and sort it out.

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11 minutes ago, Suggestion said:

How can Gordon say about saving money with Policing after agreeing with the police at the start of the season we need 2 officers at each game?? 

For what reason. 

This was the full reason this thread was created so the saving money bit is a load of nonsense just covering up the fact they have no back bone.

If we are getting away with only having two coppers at each game outside the ugly sisters then we're doing very well IMO.

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1 minute ago, div said:

 

As I've said before, if a copper turned up at my house purely because I've been involved in a fans group that (to my knowledge anyway) has not been involved in any bother, I'd be pissed off but I'd be taking up my grievance with the police rather than the club.

Just seems the club are caught between the two at the moment, and it's not going to end well unless the relevant people get round a table and sort it out.

Do we know this for certain? 

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2 hours ago, pozbaird said:

If the displaying of football related banners is not under question, then surely, if I wanted to, I could hold up a ‘Stubbs Out’ card or banner fron my W3 seat, every bit as much as I could hold up one saying ‘Give Stubbsy More Time’. The W7 crew, as some sort of loose collective, fans group, singing section, or whatever they are, as a condition of them being allowed to congregate there, would require permission.

I am, however, merely an individual supporter. So would my ‘negative’ card have been confiscated, and any ‘positive’ one let go, should a director spot them from the main stand?

If my banner said ‘Get to f**k Stubbs, you Scouse caaant, and take that weasel Jackson with you’, then fine, here come the stewards, but something of a non-offensive nature?

Part of the St. Mirren policies reads..........

"the size of flags/banners anything above 8ft by 4 ft should be referred to the club."

You would need awfy long arms to hold that up by yourself.

 

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1 hour ago, zurich_allan said:
21 hours ago, Doakes said:
What conspiracy theory is this meant to be? emoji38.png 
What is it you think the boys in W7 are plotting? Can’t wait to hear this. 

It's okay Doakes, I have more legal knowledge in my little finger than he has or ever will have in his lifetime. And that's fact, not opinion. I've also been a company secretary in the past and have a pretty good idea of obligations. That's why I feel utterly comfortable with what I originally said, and stand by it.

I should clarify. You speak like someone who has never held a director's position in a company which hosts customers and as such has some responsibility over their behaviour on your premises. I made and continue to make no judgement on your legal ability so it's not clear why you are bragging on that point. I'm not even sure why you made that statement as a fact. You have no way of knowing my background.

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43 minutes ago, linwood-bud said:

I understand where you’re coming from, but to me the fans are the club.

The club will continue to exist after all board members and chairman have left.

If the fans leave the club will cease to exist.

I know we are not quite fan owned yet, but when the fans own the club will we be allowed to show banners supporting the owners ( the fans)?

 

You are correct about the club ceasing to exist without fans but your conclusion that the fans are the club is wrong.

The club is owned by the shareholders and Gordon is the majority shareholder. It's his ballgame, his name is on the ownership papers and what he says goes. End of story.

When the club is in the shit financially it is the directors and not the fans who have the responsibility to step in and provide funding. That tells you everything you need to know about who really owns the club.

On a side note, this sort of issue is going to be a joy to deal with when we become fan owned.

Edited by oaksoft
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22 minutes ago, Doakes said:

100% true 

Fair enough but given that you deliberately withheld crucial information from us that the club had already said No to the banner prior to the match, you can surely understand people being cautious about believing we are getting the full truth from you now.

Trust is a two way street. The W7 boys might just be learning that lesson right now.

Edited by oaksoft
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Guest TPAFKATS
Here's the chat from the clubs official facebook link to the latest statement;
stmirren-facebook.thumb.JPG.cd1f457ffabbac98c716e72f93f45e66.JPG
stmirren-facebook-02.JPG.98928583c1e5bd809826626f51a2e91b.JPG
The police are one of St. Mirren's governing bodies?
Oh dear, I think they might want to review that statement.
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13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You are correct about the club ceasing to exist without fans but your conclusion that the fans are the club is wrong.

The club is owned by the shareholders and Gordon is the majority shareholder. It's his ballgame, his name is on the ownership papers and what he says goes. End of story.

When the club is in the shit financially it is the directors and not the fans who have the responsibility to step in and provide funding. That tells you everything you need to know about who really owns the club.

On a side note, this sort of issue is going to be a joy to deal with when we become fan owned.

When I state that the fans are the club I don’t mean that the fans run the club.

If Gordon decides next season we are going to start wearing strips that are Blue/Green because bigger teams have success wearing them, it would be a business decision. However I would predict that the fans would revolt and there would only be one winner.

At the end of the day we are lucky that Gordon is also a fan and I personally think we are very lucky to have him in charge and I wouldn’t swap him for a Chinese consortium promising us Champions League football.

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