Club statement please on police activity in W7

[Sonny]

20 minutes ago, Suggestion said:

Not my proposal to do the banner I proposed a silent protest with everyone with there mouths shut. 

But yes we did decide as a group to do this banner and then after the club said not to do it we decided as a group to display it together. 

Not me the group. 

 

Were not out to get the support from other supporters. 

 

We want to support the team without being treated as criminals when you’ve done nothing wrong. 

is that such a hard thing to do? 

I get that you feel aggrieved but unfortunately that's life - it isn't fair. We all feel injustice on occasion but the question is how to deal with it.

You appear to have two grievances - one with the Police coming to your home (understandable) which you can only take up with the Police. And secondly you appear to believe that SMFC gave out confidential details (again understandable). This is something you can take up with the Club. Separate issues.

But what did you hope to gain by displaying a banner you had been told not to? Many years ago I was given sound advice 'Do you want to vent your feelings and possibly make matters worse and achieve little? Or do you want a result and concentrate on not inflaming the situation and focus on what you want out of the situation?' Having a tantrum only pisses people off.

Practically the banner has only made things worse and achieved nothing except making a few people feel better to the detriment of legitimate concerns.

Fans love what W7 is doing however some responsibility comes with the role like observing the Club's directives. Some calmness and a willingness to keep a dialogue going is the only way to resolve issues. I sincerely hope this is resolved soon.

[Desperately Seeking Susans]

14 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

In my house you might be asked to leave if you kept banging on about Palestine and destroying the state of Israel if other guests in the room were Jewish. 

Excuse me everyone while I reply to this off topic post. 

Simply put; you know nothing about the issue as our last exchange demonstrated some years ago which shows how much you are still hurting since you bring it up now and to imply anti-Semitism you are on thin ice.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Desperately Seeking Susans

[Iamhammer]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yes, I don't understand this unwillingness to help the Police with legitimate concerns over hooliganism and anti social behaviour which still exists in the game. I certainly don't understand anyone seeing this as criminalising them in any way. He could have told the Police he wasn't free at that time. 9am is hardly early. Most people are up for work at 6 or 7.

Well if they turned up at my door at that time out of the blue my first thoughts would be that somthing had happened to one of my kids.  Also loads of people like me work from home

[linwood-bud]

I sense this discussion is about to go off topic and result in petty arguing and point scoring, time for me to make a swift exit.

Hopefully this issue can be resolved and Gordon and Josh can shake hands, neither is obliged to, but it would be nice to move on.

[Sonny]

11 minutes ago, Desperately Seeking Susans said:

I don't think, as far as I'm aware that the fans were urinating outside the toilets or spraying graffiti on the walls.  Likewise, if you came into my house  my rules don't stipulate a prohibition against expressing a political opinion when watching Question Time.

Great stuff - you decide what is acceptable in your house. You have rules for your venue and SMFC has rules for it's venue. So if I go to your house I am subject to your rules and if I go to Greenhill Rd I are subject to SMFC's rules. Likewise I cannot display a banner at the cinema or at Braehead unless I seek and get approval.

[Iamhammer]

18 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Doesn't the Aberdeen game count?

Typical simple minded post, detracting from the issue.

Grow up. 

 

No not detracting from the issue at all, I have an objection to you having a go at a group that travel the country supporting the team at great expense, when you barely attend a game.  I've been in pubs pre game they have been in and on buses and trains they have been on and never seen any criminal activies at all from any of them. 

[HSS]

5 hours ago, div said:

A small but relevant point. St.Mirren FC is not fan owned. Yet.

I know from reading various articles that Celtic's Green Brigade have to have every banner they plan to display pre-approved. Obviously they have also ignored the club in the past which led to their area being closed for a couple of matches as a result.

The displaying of football related banners is not under question here. There have been dozens of great displays that the group in W7 have carried off without any incident.

I've no idea what information the police asked the club for but I can't really imagine a scenario where the club would be allowed to tell them to f**k off.

Similarly I doubt the cops would really have a hard time working out where individuals live. It's kind of their job.

I'd certainly be pissed off if the police visited me at home and I had done absolutely nothing wrong, but my gripe would be with the police, not the club.

 

Div,can you find out why the Sellic "Shagger" was allowed to stay?

I've been told that it was because the Polis feared trouble if the banner was removed.If that's true then it's  disgraceful.

[Suggestion]

Going to try my best to not reply to this. 

A meeting is in the process of being set up between the slo and the police and George Adam to see why we are being policed like this in the first place. 

After this we can speak with the club and see where it goes from there. 

See you all at Hamilton

[stlucifer]

I get the animosity directed at the posters who are complaining about the club because of their confrontational rhetoric but it doesn't detract from the fact they have legitimate concerns.

FWIW I agree with those such as Oaksoft as to questioning HOW those affected are voicing those concerns but not the fact they ARE voicing it.

[BuddieinEK]

Going to try my best to not reply to this. 
A meeting is in the process of being set up between the slo and the police and George Adam to see why we are being policed like this in the first place. 
After this we can speak with the club and see where it goes from there. 
See you all at Hamilton

In the meantime, if the club says any banner is unacceptable in their opinion, are you prepared to respect that?

Also... If your real beef is with the Police, what would a silent protest achieve?

[StMurnBois]

16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yes, we know that. Nobody is questioning that. We are all questioning your method for getting what you want. It is aggressive and confrontational and absolutely doomed to failure. Adults don't respond well to schoolyard behaviour from others.

Really no need in how patronising you have been throughout this thread. 

Attitudes like that only help to further form a wedge between the fans. 

[faraway saint]

58 minutes ago, Iamhammer said:

No not detracting from the issue at all, I have an objection to you having a go at a group that travel the country supporting the team at great expense, when you barely attend a game.  I've been in pubs pre game they have been in and on buses and trains they have been on and never seen any criminal activies at all from any of them. 

So, you can't comment on a club issue unless you attend games?

Better get a list of people and games attended to let everybody know when they can and can't comment.

See where I'm going with this? 

Edited September 18, 2018 by faraway saint

[StMurnBois]

Just now, BuddieinEK said:

In the meantime, if the club says any banner is unacceptable in their opinion, are you prepared to respect that?

Also... If your real beef is with the Police, what would a silent protest achieve?

If the club deem a banner to be unacceptable, and this is due to legitimate, reasonable rules stated within the clubs policies, then I think we can all agree that said banner would not be brought into SMP.

[Bud the Baker]

I reckon the banner in question was pretty innocuous.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[stlucifer]

1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

I reckon the banner in question was pretty innocuous.

 

ABSOLUTELY. 

[Lord Pityme]

14 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

In the meantime, if the club says any banner is unacceptable in their opinion, are you prepared to respect that?

Also... If your real beef is with the Police, what would a silent protest achieve?

Here's the answer ".............................."

[St.Ricky]

22 minutes ago, Iamhammer said:

No not detracting from the issue at all, I have an objection to you having a go at a group that travel the country supporting the team at great expense, when you barely attend a game.  I've been in pubs pre game they have been in and on buses and trains they have been on and never seen any criminal activies at all from any of them. 

I pull Faraway's leg mercilessly about his not attending games but he is entitled to an opinion.  I've travelled by train.  Behaviour was loud and upset some travellers who hadn't bargained for it.  Also upset Rail Staff who considered reporting the guys to Transport Police but were  persuaded not to do so on the basis that the guys were noisy,  used sweary words but would settle down which they did.  Just a reminder to enjoy ourselves but consider other people too.  

Edited September 18, 2018 by St.Ricky

[StMurnBois]

Wish people would understand that there is more to what they see posted online. 

I feel a lot of fans jump to the conclusion that those who sit in W7 just take to the internet every time something doesn't go their way (acting like petulant children, spitting dummy out pram etc as what people have posted on this thread).

This is simply not the case.

Taking to Social Media is a last resort for the boys involved and before every post there is a significant of back and forth with all parties involved (W7/Northbank, the club, GS, SLO etc) and the recurring theme is that when disagreements are had, the club shut the door and close the discussion. If they cannot come to an agreement and solve any issues via email then this is when the conversation is usually taken to social media, this then usually reopens to door to discussion once the club/anyone involved have realised that the issue won't just go away if they ignore it.

 

The people in W7 have put in a tremendous amount of effort, time and money into supporting the team over the past 2 years, and it seems like they have had to jump through some very unreasonable hoops just to be allowed to bring some colour and noise to SMP, how many of you fans would continue to push for this after being told no at every opportunity?

[E=Mc2]

1 hour ago, Eric Arthur Blair said:

The plural of fanny is fannies not fannys.

I stand corrected by a ménage à trois specialist.

[Geordie Saint]

1 hour ago, linwood-bud said:

It’s clear that only one person will come out on top between a young disgruntled fan and highly respected businessman with years of legally drafted communication experience. Especially on a open social media format such as Facebook.

Maybe Josh is making things worse now, but I’d hope that Gordon would look to reach out privately and sort this matter out.

Well said. Josh isn't a solicitor or the likes. He's an ordinary fan typing in the heat of the moment, feeling angry and in his opinion, let down by the club after a visit from the police.

[E=Mc2]

My advice..........................

Stick to drumming..............................you're very good at that.

 

[St.Ricky]

2 minutes ago, john scott said:

Well said. Josh isn't a solicitor or the likes. He's an ordinary fan typing in the heat of the moment, feeling angry and in his opinion, let down by the club after a visit from the police.

Then he needs to learn that the world wasn't created specially to meet any of our individual wants.  He has chosen this path,  is embarrassing himself and W7 and in the process making public police action designed,  I believe,  to ensure fan safety. Not a spectacular success so far.  On the other hand I love what W7 do when they stick to supporting the team. 

The procedure is clear W7 - SLO - Board - Decision - SLO - W7. I would be concerned if the board sidelined the SLO and if I were the SLO and thus happened,  I would resign. 

Respect decisions made please.  Keep personal grievances private. 

[djchapsticks]

57 minutes ago, Suggestion said:

Well do you go to games to gain the support from other fans? 

 

I personally don't, no.

Surely though, as the head of a fans group, gaining support and backing from other fans is one of your main objectives?

[Sonny]

4 minutes ago, StMurnBois said:

Wish people would understand that there is more to what they see posted online. 

I feel a lot of fans jump to the conclusion that those who sit in W7 just take to the internet every time something doesn't go their way (acting like petulant children, spitting dummy out pram etc as what people have posted on this thread).

This is simply not the case.

Taking to Social Media is a last resort for the boys involved and before every post there is a significant of back and forth with all parties involved (W7/Northbank, the club, GS, SLO etc) and the recurring theme is that when disagreements are had, the club shut the door and close the discussion. If they cannot come to an agreement and solve any issues via email then this is when the conversation is usually taken to social media, this then usually reopens to door to discussion once the club/anyone involved have realised that the issue won't just go away if they ignore it.

 

The people in W7 have put in a tremendous amount of effort, time and money into supporting the team over the past 2 years, and it seems like they have had to jump through some very unreasonable hoops just to be allowed to bring some colour and noise to SMP, how many of you fans would continue to push for this after being told no at every opportunity?

The thing is the Club have the final say as they have the responsibility of running the Club. Bitching on social media harms your case and does not help it. Debate calmly and reasonably with the Club to achieve your aims but they will always have the final say taking into account the law, other supporters (Home and Away), and the Club's image. Washing dirty linen in public is a retrograde step to your ambitions.

And I think it is unfair to criticise the Club for giving you a hard time. GLS is always praising W7. Allocated the group to that part of the stadium. He allows standing (contravening the law) and engages with W7.  But he has responsibilities which he has the final say on.

[stlucifer]

4 minutes ago, Sonny said:

The thing is the Club have the final say as they have the responsibility of running the Club. Bitching on social media harms your case and does not help it. Debate calmly and reasonably with the Club to achieve your aims but they will always have the final say taking into account the law, other supporters (Home and Away), and the Club's image. Washing dirty linen in public is a retrograde step to your ambitions.

And I think it is unfair to criticise the Club for giving you a hard time. GLS is always praising W7. Allocated the group to that part of the stadium. He allows standing (contravening the law) and engages with W7.  But he has responsibilities which he has the final say on.

But would it not be reasonable in this instance to publicly declare what was so offensive about the banner while allowing a far more offensive one to continue being displayed in the away end?

ETA. this is a strange way of showing support for W7 lads. Mixed messages at best.

Edited September 18, 2018 by stlucifer