Is the Manager the Boss..?

[Lord Pityme]

Cammy Smith has been asked by the manager to play a role he doesnt want to play. As honest as he is in believing he is better playing as he did last season. Is the manager not the person who is charged with setting out his team to what he believes is his best advantage?

whatever you believe/agree/disagree with the fact is we dont have the same players as last season. We have lost thirty odd goals in Morgan & Reilly, along with Davis in defence. Mullen was getting hooked on the hour last season. Now he's the only out we seem to have up front, and he is still blasting it high and wide.

so if the manager thinks we dont have the same personnel, so cant play the same formation, is he right/wrong to ask a player to drop in where he asks??? From what i am understanding that is the crux of Smith's grievance.

[DLBud]

You know absolutely f**k all about Cammy’s “grievance”. Why do you even make this shit up?

Of course Stubbs has the right to decide which formation and personnel he’d like to play (we’ve almost tried them all and it’s not September yet) and if Cammy refuses to play where asked then he should be dropped.

That being said if you don’t have the personnel to play you’re favoured formation (which seems to be 4-4-2, with a diamond mid) then why not play the formation that allows you to get the best from the players you have?

Cammy Smith was many people’s POY last year playing in the No.10 role. Why negate his strengths asking him (or Kyle or Willock) to play wide? Why not just sign a f**king wide player?

[Cornwall_Saint]

15 minutes ago, DLBud said:

That being said if you don’t have the personnel to play you’re favoured formation (which seems to be 4-4-2, with a diamond mid) then why not play the formation that allows you to get the best from the players you have?
 

This reminds me of De Boer at Palace last season. You could see he wanted them to play a certain style, but one transfer window wasn't enough to get the personnel in that was required. At that point he should have played to their strengths and aimed towards his eventual ideas in future. Hodgson immediately had those players playing the style that suited the team and in the end they survived and looked a lot better. 

[Bearsden buddie]

41 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Cammy Smith has been asked by the manager to play a role he doesnt want to play. As honest as he is in believing he is better playing as he did last season. Is the manager not the person who is charged with setting out his team to what he believes is his best advantage?

whatever you believe/agree/disagree with the fact is we dont have the same players as last season. We have lost thirty odd goals in Morgan & Reilly, along with Davis in defence. Mullen was getting hooked on the hour last season. Now he's the only out we seem to have up front, and he is still blasting it high and wide.

so if the manager thinks we dont have the same personnel, so cant play the same formation, is he right/wrong to ask a player to drop in where he asks??? From what i am understanding that is the crux of Smith's grievance.

Of course he can set players out in whatever position he wants, he is the manager, but that does not make it the correct decision. Cammys best position is attacking through the middle and we have seen over the past year or so that he is very effective there. Stubbs can ask him to player wide right, wide left, defence wherever he wants, but that doesn't mean he will be capable of playing these positions just as effectively. We can see that cammy is not a naturally wide playing player, thats clear from the games he has played, but yet Stubbs has continually played him there. This in turn has caused cammy to have poor game causing him to then obviously feel very frustrated by this.

[Hendo]

1 hour ago, DLBud said:

You know absolutely f**k all about Cammy’s “grievance”. Why do you even make this shit up?

Of course Stubbs has the right to decide which formation and personnel he’d like to play (we’ve almost tried them all and it’s not September yet) and if Cammy refuses to play where asked then he should be dropped.

That being said if you don’t have the personnel to play you’re favoured formation (which seems to be 4-4-2, with a diamond mid) then why not play the formation that allows you to get the best from the players you have?

Cammy Smith was many people’s POY last year playing in the No.10 role. Why negate his strengths asking him (or Kyle or Willock) to play wide? Why not just sign a f**king wide player?

Smith of course could play in a diamond midfield, at the top of that diamond, which arguably would be his best position. The problem, of course, with trying to play that formation with the players we have is it leaves the full backs hopelessly exposed, which, with a YTS central defence is asking for trouble.

So Stubbs preferred formation is bollocks. Just like everything else he's done since arriving.

[Bud the Baker]

Managers prerogative, it's a different division with a higher calibre of opponent and we have a different squad composition compared to last year.

It happens everywhere - a new manager arrives and a fans favourite has to shape up or ship out.

There's no guarantee JR would have asked Smith to play the same role this season.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

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Edited August 27, 2018 by Isle Of Bute Saint

[DLBud]

Managers prerogative, it's a different division with a higher calibre of opponent and we have a different squad composition compared to last year.
It happens everywhere - a new manager arrives and a fans favourite has to shape up or ship out.
There's no guarantee JR would have asked Smith to play the same role this season.

Players come and go, we all know that. I think part of the issue here is that we seem to be losing a number of well liked players who have been instrumental in our recent success and those coming in to replace them don’t appear to be very good.

Jack may well have made some of the same personnel decisions as Stubbs but I guess he had earned the trust of players and fans alike over the last 2 years and would likely have been given a bit more latitude if things had gone tits up.

[DLBud]

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Post of the day

[David Mc]

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Not sure if I agree with that point [emoji4]

[Lord Pityme]

11 hours ago, DLBud said:

You know absolutely f**k all about Cammy’s “grievance”. Why do you even make this shit up?

Of course Stubbs has the right to decide which formation and personnel he’d like to play (we’ve almost tried them all and it’s not September yet) and if Cammy refuses to play where asked then he should be dropped.

That being said if you don’t have the personnel to play you’re favoured formation (which seems to be 4-4-2, with a diamond mid) then why not play the formation that allows you to get the best from the players you have?

Cammy Smith was many people’s POY last year playing in the No.10 role. Why negate his strengths asking him (or Kyle or Willock) to play wide? Why not just sign a f**king wide player?

Oh why pray tell fountain of all knowledge then what is Smith's grievance? I listen to a variety of sources, and unless i hear it from a stick on i then say something like "my understanding is" rather than tweet incendiary messages to rally the torch & pitchfork mob. Seems you prefer the latter?

a simple fact of last seasons campaign was that A. Ross had no plan B... and B. When we came up against a physical/disruptive side (Livi, Morton, Dunfermline, Dun Utd, Falkirk and even Brechin..! We struggled at best, and folded at worst. That style and formation with the players that have been retained is not viable!

the opposition is markedly better, and the fact everyone seems to want to ignore is we have lost almost all our goals, and opportunity creators. Stubbs hasnt punted any of them, they left/were released. So we were not only short, but without the quality in key areas. Bottom line Stubbs couldn't/can't play that way. He has gone down the route of bringing in young talented players, rather than sifting through the usual suspects up here.

so far the youngsters lack of actual pro game time has been painfully obvious in some games, and in a few they have clicked and dominated the opposition. stubbs has tried to find among them a competitive line up for all games (not just over running Sons). It is hard to watch when some of the players dont seem to know the script, whilst others show their frustration. But i believe, as has been proven since time immemorial that sticking together to work out your problems, adding the required skill, knowledge and crucial experience will lift the team, and support out of this period.

some think circulating inflammatory tweets from info fed by the club, to destabilise the manager and rally a lynch mob, will they hope persuade the manager to chuck it on the cheap! Lets imagine for a moment that this shitty strategy works... who the f**k worth their salt is going to want to be anywhere near our club, and our board, knowing what tactics the board are prepared to deploy if you lose two league games to Rangers, and Livi..?

they did the same with Rae & Farrell, got away with it in the end when Ross came good, but look at how many times even he tried To jump ship before eventually getting out..!

dont believe everything put in front of you, look, listen, look back and make your own conclusions. #teameck ffs... that on its own should be enough to twig in supporters minds.

[Maboza]

Does anyone really think we're going to have a successful season in the Premier League playing 4-4-2 ? 

 

 

[Mykey]

Does anyone really think we're going to have a successful season in the Premier League playing 4-4-2 ? 
 
 

No

[shull]

6 minutes ago, Maboza said:

Does anyone really think we're going to have a successful season in the Premier League playing 4-4-2 ? 

 

 

I think we will struggle, just playing football. 

[Lord Pityme]

I think Stubbs will find a formation that we can play, with the tools at his disposal. It may be if Smith goes for a fee, or at least freeing up another wage then he can strengthen in the areas we need it? Its a fact we cant play like we did last season because those players have gone, and in this league if we push five/six forward we would get slaughtered every game.

so its back to basics, 4-4-2 etc to find a consistent squad. It is worth noting that weren't overrun in open play by Livi, albeit we looked like a comedy of errors until late in the second half. And although big Cole seems to have thrupenny bits for boots where the ball could cannon off in any direction. It was more young Alfie who got caught out of position at the set pieces. 

Cole will have to become more mobile, and controlled very quickly or be dropped. P Mcginn looks solid enough, as did Hodson albeit a bit rusty. Coulson needs the guy in front to tuck in when he goes for the bye line, and there you have the Cammy Smith issue, as he certainly doesnt want to be 'the guy' to fall in, and drop back.

Stubbs, i think has played, observed and been f**ked around by a much higher calibre style of official than any undermining tactics our board can muster, so i dont see him walking. Which will force the board to back him and maybe, just maybe consider all working together?

[portmahomack saint]

6 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I think Stubbs will find a formation that we can play, with the tools at his disposal. It may be if Smith goes for a fee, or at least freeing up another wage then he can strengthen in the areas we need it? Its a fact we cant play like we did last season because those players have gone, and in this league if we push five/six forward we would get slaughtered every game.

so its back to basics, 4-4-2 etc to find a consistent squad. It is worth noting that weren't overrun in open play by Livi, albeit we looked like a comedy of errors until late in the second half. And although big Cole seems to have thrupenny bits for boots where the ball could cannon off in any direction. It was more young Alfie who got caught out of position at the set pieces. 

Cole will have to become more mobile, and controlled very quickly or be dropped. P Mcginn looks solid enough, as did Hodson albeit a bit rusty. Coulson needs the guy in front to tuck in when he goes for the bye line, and there you have the Cammy Smith issue, as he certainly doesnt want to be 'the guy' to fall in, and drop back.

Stubbs, i think has played, observed and been f**ked around by a much higher calibre style of official than any undermining tactics our board can muster, so i dont see him walking. Which will force the board to back him and maybe, just maybe consider all working together?

The problem is we weren`t pushing forward both goals were lost to set pieces and by far the biggest culprit was big Cole Kpekawa.  and Stubbs would do well { if he really wants to keep his job }  to send him back where he came from,  or at best put him in the reserves for 6months and see if he can get him fit and learn to play a bit, his performace in the Kilmarnock game has fooled us all,

I get where your coming from with Div and his tweets, as they did raise a few eyebrows in my household too. and the feeling that things behind the scenes are not what they should be, but lets face it,  has the manager gave anyone anything so far to be positive about,  his recruitment has been terrible,  has he improved any part of the team, no he hasn`t.  if I was holding the purse strings at the club I`d be shittin ma breeks.

ps  Enlighten me what`s #teameck

[div]

8 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

I get where your coming from with Div and his tweets, as they did raise a few eyebrows in my household too.

What's this about?

[div]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Oh why pray tell fountain of all knowledge then what is Smith's grievance? I listen to a variety of sources, and unless i hear it from a stick on i then say something like "my understanding is" rather than tweet incendiary messages to rally the torch & pitchfork mob. Seems you prefer the latter?

a simple fact of last seasons campaign was that A. Ross had no plan B... and B. When we came up against a physical/disruptive side (Livi, Morton, Dunfermline, Dun Utd, Falkirk and even Brechin..! We struggled at best, and folded at worst. That style and formation with the players that have been retained is not viable!

the opposition is markedly better, and the fact everyone seems to want to ignore is we have lost almost all our goals, and opportunity creators. Stubbs hasnt punted any of them, they left/were released. So we were not only short, but without the quality in key areas. Bottom line Stubbs couldn't/can't play that way. He has gone down the route of bringing in young talented players, rather than sifting through the usual suspects up here.

so far the youngsters lack of actual pro game time has been painfully obvious in some games, and in a few they have clicked and dominated the opposition. stubbs has tried to find among them a competitive line up for all games (not just over running Sons). It is hard to watch when some of the players dont seem to know the script, whilst others show their frustration. But i believe, as has been proven since time immemorial that sticking together to work out your problems, adding the required skill, knowledge and crucial experience will lift the team, and support out of this period.

some think circulating inflammatory tweets from info fed by the club, to destabilise the manager and rally a lynch mob, will they hope persuade the manager to chuck it on the cheap! Lets imagine for a moment that this shitty strategy works... who the f**k worth their salt is going to want to be anywhere near our club, and our board, knowing what tactics the board are prepared to deploy if you lose two league games to Rangers, and Livi..?

they did the same with Rae & Farrell, got away with it in the end when Ross came good, but look at how many times even he tried To jump ship before eventually getting out..!

dont believe everything put in front of you, look, listen, look back and make your own conclusions. #teameck ffs... that on its own should be enough to twig in supporters minds.

Cammy Smith doesn't have a grievance.

The rest of your post, as usual, is utter pish.

[portmahomack saint]

6 minutes ago, div said:

What's this about?

Cant remember the post but something you posted seemed a bit unlike you so early into the managers reign, was pointed out to me by my brother that maybe things were not what they should be, am not saying our thoughts are justified, just saying can see why  lordpityme is making a something out of maybe nothing, if that makes any sense   

[Edinbuddie]

See if we’re in a position of having to move on Cammy Smith to bring in other players, then the management are culpable for having blown their entire budget on a collection of signings and loanees that are well below the required standard.

Morgan went back to Celtic and we let Hippolyte go to Dunfermline weeks ago. Why haven’t we signed someone that can play wide left if he wants to play 4-4-2?

Our best performances seem to have come when we’ve played a 4-2-3-1 - Killie, Dumbarton and Dundee - so why are we fannying about with diamonds in midfield, 4-4-2 and fitting square pegs into round holes?

Stubbs came to a club on the up, and a budget to sign his own players. Recruitment is a key part of any manager’s job and he’s come up woefully short.

If only gorgeous Jack hadn’t left......

[div]

4 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

Cant remember the post but something you posted seemed a bit unlike you so early into the managers reign, was pointed out to me by my brother that maybe things were not what they should be, am not saying our thoughts are justified, just saying can see why  lordpityme is making a something out of maybe nothing, if that makes any sense   

Dunno mate, I didn't tweet a whole lot on Saturday during the game but if there's a particular tweet I posted happy to discuss!

Personally I was disappointed to see Cammy Smith dropped. I was quite clear about that but I did also say;

I got some heat for suggesting that McGinn running 20 yards to high five Cammy Smith on to the park was a telling gesture.

Called it the way I saw it.

And finally at the end of the game;

The manager pretty much confirmed that to be the case in his BT interview.

LPM has the opinion that the board of the club are using me to de-stabilise the manager so that they can sack him.

LPM lives in a fantasy world.

[Lord Pityme]

38 minutes ago, div said:

Cammy Smith doesn't have a grievance.

The rest of your post, as usual, is utter pish.

Laugh... i nearly bought a round!

so he's as happy as a sandboy, and fulling accepting, as you say he isnt going to be played where he wants, isn't guaranteed a place and is free to find another club..? 

I suppose when you put it like that about many fans POTY last season, its hard to see why indeed he would have a grievance? Lol...

[Lord Pityme]

56 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

The problem is we weren`t pushing forward both goals were lost to set pieces and by far the biggest culprit was big Cole Kpekawa.  and Stubbs would do well { if he really wants to keep his job }  to send him back where he came from,  or at best put him in the reserves for 6months and see if he can get him fit and learn to play a bit, his performace in the Kilmarnock game has fooled us all,

I get where your coming from with Div and his tweets, as they did raise a few eyebrows in my household too. and the feeling that things behind the scenes are not what they should be, but lets face it,  has the manager gave anyone anything so far to be positive about,  his recruitment has been terrible,  has he improved any part of the team, no he hasn`t.  if I was holding the purse strings at the club I`d be shittin ma breeks.

ps  Enlighten me what`s #teameck

Yeah like i said, a comedy of errors, especially in the middle of the park where no one seemed to know, who or what they should be playing too! And big Cole either shows up with professional experience he has, or ships out.

#teameck was something Div, and others started to tweet in the wake of someone at the club tweeting as a fan Eckersley was injured, and Eck rightly pulling them up (but unfortunately on twitter) asking in what capacity they were making this public. Then the anti Stubbs stuff came in with people jumping to the conclusion that Stubbs would rather cut his nose off to spite his face, instead of playing Eck, and or McKenzie!

and as a fair few of us knew all along both were injured, with Eck even unable to train, and both have now had ops. #teameck = fake news. 

[portmahomack saint]

 

11 minutes ago, div said:

Dunno mate, I didn't tweet a whole lot on Saturday during the game but if there's a particular tweet I posted happy to discuss!

Personally I was disappointed to see Cammy Smith dropped. I was quite clear about that but I did also say;

I got some heat for suggesting that McGinn running 20 yards to high five Cammy Smith on to the park was a telling gesture.

Called it the way I saw it.

And finally at the end of the game;

The manager pretty much confirmed that to be the case in his BT interview.

LPM has the opinion that the board of the club are using me to de-stabilise the manager so that they can sack him.

LPM lives in a fantasy world.

 Am not criticising any of your post or tweets div was just saying they raised a few eyebrows that thing are not right with our club behind the scenes. don't read to much into that post,  Maybe am just overestimating your inside info and knowledge of all things St Mirren, 

[div]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Laugh... i nearly bought a round!

so he's as happy as a sandboy, and fulling accepting, as you say he isnt going to be played where he wants, isn't guaranteed a place and is free to find another club..? 

I suppose when you put it like that about many fans POTY last season, its hard to see why indeed he would have a grievance? Lol...

He doesn't have a grievance.

He didn't ask to leave.