So what now for SMFC?

[Magic Monkey]

4 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Took a step back last night when the confirmation came through our manager had been sacked after four league games. It seems the co-ordinated campaign to de-stabilise him with leak, after leak from players, directors and staff got the result they wanted? And please, dont insult either your, or my intelligence sugesting this wasnt a club endorsed approach to build up an Anti Stubbs mob, so the board could make it look like they were getting it right by eventually sacking him.

this shit-strewn type of dirty campaign has been run by clubs before, including ours, and always comes with a much higher cost than those who endorsed and encouraged it ever conceive. So what now? Whats the club strategy now they have succeeded in smearing their own employee?

 

Either he's a good manager, and was taking the club forward, or he's not (spoiler alert: he wasn't). Nobody wants to lose, nobody wants him (and Jackson) to be poisonous. There wouldn't be any need for a campaign of any sort if he was half-way competent at the job he claimed he could do.

Yes, the board made a mistake in recruiting a horrendous manager, and now they've acted to repair the error. You're saying they're not accepting responsibility for their error, but I'd argue that by binning him, that's exactly what they've done, and I really don't see what the big deal is.

We were in a similar situation after the summer of 2014 - we could see it was going wrong, but no action was taken. And then Teale was sort-of given the job, but not confirmed for ages, and then we sold McLean and we were f**ked. That is negligent running of a football club.

Owners of clubs don't fall on their sword every time they appoint a dud, you daft sod 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Magic Monkey

[div]

28 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Still interesting to note that no one is saying the club werent running a smear campaign. Maybe these posters approve of any method the board use to cover up their mess?

On the contrary, I think the only person who seriously thinks the board of directors hired a guy on a 3 year contract then crafted some sort of campaign to then get rid of him after 3 months, is you!

They got rid of him because he was absolutely fucking hopeless. No campaign required. Everyone apart from you could see that with their own two eyes.

 

[Iamhammer]

I've no idea where we go other than back to the championship.  Interesting to see Eckersley tweet about all the supportive messages he received after the sacking was announced, do people really think he is the answer in this league?  My concern now is what happens if the players Stubbs signed decided to spit the dummy out at the new manager the same way established players from last season had done with Stubbs? During the penalty shootout at Rugby Park, there was a photo taken and posted on the forum that showed the team split in two, although it was posted with a jokey comment, I fear it might well have been the case that it was no joke

[Wilbur]

12 minutes ago, Iamhammer said:

 My concern now is what happens if the players Stubbs signed decided to spit the dummy out at the new manager ……………...

How will we spot the difference to their performances for Stubbs ?

[St.Ricky]

41 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

I'm not sure about the internal politics of the club but it has been clear something hasn't been right since  JR made it clear he was leaving.. I don't imagine football is all that different from any other roles where "power plays" are made but when they are backstabbing, ruthless, decisive, failure or underhand are usually the types of words being bandied about.

When he was appointed I wasn't overly excited but I was happy to back Stubbs as manager. TF billed him as the outstanding candidate but looking back now that looks like a PR cover up because all the other candidates had knocked us back.

Stubbs first signings were unusual and no preseason games meant we were all in the dark as to their quality until our first match. By that time Tales from La Manga about player release had already started and talk of him doing a Terry Butcher when he put Hibs into freefall, by releasing half his team , were already causing a bit of apprehension in the support.

And what about that first team selection. I never saw that coming. McPherson and Kirkpatrick in the starting lineup and no places for Cooke, King or Heaton. Fair play it all looked good even big Kpekawa looked like he might be a player that night but sadly that was the last spark of enthusiasm and effort we saw from an Alan Stubbs team. It hasn't exactly been a joy to watch after that.

Dead pigeons and a Steven McGinn rally cry were the only talking points of the league cup campaign and just when it all comes good against Dumbarton the talk in the pub was already of a bust up between McGinn and Stubbs. 

McGinn was Dire at the Aberdeen game but so was the team. Fair do's to Stubbs you can't legislate for the individual errors but I didn't see any fight or any sign they had a plan that day. At Ibrox again it was moment of madness that put us behind but it was more of the same. The Livi game was awful and the lack of desire in the team was evident to everyone. The Ross's players v Stubbs interaction between McGinn and Smith was enough to highlight no one was playing for Stubbs.

At Tyncastle Smith was fighting with Jackson during the Warm up, Players were making the usual expected individual errors and costing us goals. Rumours were rife at half time about Stubbs out by Monday and McIntyre in for the celtic game.  I have no idea of the reasoning behind the leaks, Gilmours tweets or Board room agendas but this so called inside info from fans at the game maybe gives some credence to the conspiracy theory.

You LPM know much more about these shenanigans than I do and you probably have your own Agenda. I don't know and don't care.

What I think though is that Stubbs wasn't taking the club anywhere good and he had to go. I actually felt sorry for him in the end but tough I was glad to see the back of him.

Where go now I have no idea but hopefully into a period of unity where the team turn up on a Matchday and Board room matters disappear back into the background.

Unfortunately the "Whoever is appointed" must go thread will probably start 2 minutes after his appointment but hopefully not because anyone has an agenda.

I hope we go back to enjoying the football

 

Well said

[The Original 59er]

9 minutes ago, Magic Monkey said:

Either he's a good manager, and was taking the club forward, or he's not (spoiler alert: he wasn't). Nobody wants to lose, nobody wants him (and Jackson) to be poisonous. There wouldn't be any need for a campaign of any sort if he was half-way competent at the job he claimed he could do.

Yes, the board made a mistake in recruiting a horrendous manager, and now they've acted to repair the error. You're saying they're not accepting responsibility for their error, but I'd argue that by binning him, that's exactly what they've done, and I really don't see what the big deal is.

We were in a similar situation after the summer of 2014 - we could see it was going wrong, but no action was taken. And then Teale was sort-of given the job, but not confirmed for ages, and then we sold McLean and we were f**ked. That is negligent running of a football club.

Owners of clubs don't fall on their sword every time they appoint a dud, you daft sod 

Yes the BoD's have reacted much more quickly than in TC's reign, but that doesn't get away from the fact that they have hardly shown themselves up to be prudent custodians of the club!

I repeat the question:"what good self-respecting person would want to take this gig"?!

I'm not convinced that the mistakes the Board have made and the rumblings coming from the way that all this has been handled make us a likely target for any aspiring manager who sees us as a step up and provides them with any form of job stability any longer than 1 year (near enough our average length of time through 7 managers since 2010) 

[Magic Monkey]

2 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

Yes the BoD's have reacted much more quickly than in TC's reign, but that doesn't get away from the fact that they have hardly shown themselves up to be prudent custodians of the club!

I repeat the question:"what good self-respecting person would want to take this gig"?!

I'm not convinced that the mistakes the Board have made and the rumblings coming from the way that all this has been handled make us a likely target for any aspiring manager who sees us as a step up and provides them with any form of job stability any longer than 1 year (near enough our average length of time through 7 managers since 2010) 

Well, not many wanted it in the summer. In fact, we seem to be working from largely the same shortlist, if you ignore the Guti/Kluivert circus.

So I don't think it's changed anything, tbh.

[pod]

28 minutes ago, Iamhammer said:

  My concern now is what happens if the players Stubbs signed decided to spit the dummy out 

Send them packing.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

40 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Sigh, you "forgot" drawing with the team that were 5th in the top league last season.

What world beaters didn't we not my beat to "not qualify" last season? 

Your getting better at this an actual post about football 

[pod]

14 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

 but that doesn't get away from the fact that they have hardly shown themselves up to be prudent custodians of the club!

Wait until the supporters take over. They'll show them how to be prudent custodians.  

First thing  to replace is  the crystal ball.

Edited September 4, 2018 by pod

[Tommy]

58 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

So your bigging up Stubbs for being the first saints manager to navigate the league cup group! I dont think you'll have many joining that bandwagon.

I bigging nobody up. Just pointing out your lies.

[Lord Pityme]

47 minutes ago, div said:

On the contrary, I think the only person who seriously thinks the board of directors hired a guy on a 3 year contract then crafted some sort of campaign to then get rid of him after 3 months, is you!

They got rid of him because he was absolutely f**king hopeless. No campaign required. Everyone apart from you could see that with their own two eyes.

 

And yet, so few see it all that way.

[div]

3 minutes ago, renfrew said:

I bigging nobody up. Just pointing out your lies.

Careful. You call him a liar, you'll need to do it to his face. Looking straight into his eyes.

Seat row and number please and we'll add you to the queue.

[div]

Just now, Lord Pityme said:

And yet, so few see it all that way.

Only in the wildest realms of your imagination.

[Soctty]

Let's look at the squad left behind.

We have, I think, 10 members of the squad who won the league last season - Samson, Eckersley, Mackenzie, Baird, McGinn, Magennis, McShane, Smith, Mullen, Flynn, plus fringe players like Erhahon, McPherson and Kirkpatrick.

Of the signings, Coulson looked a great prospect when he signed, but his confidence has been sapped over time. Similarly Kpekawa looked good on his debut, before becoming a jitter big lump who looked terrified of making a mistake. A new manager who can restore their confidence could have two very decent players,

Hodson is an experienced international full back who should definitely do a job for us in this league, while Edwards is an experienced midfielder with nearly 100 premiership games under his belt. Brock-Madsen is surely able to be a useful player in the Premiership having scored a few goals in the Eredivisie. Paul McGinn has a lot of Premiership experience as well.

The fellas from down south, the non-league players and loans, are more difficult to predict what impact they could have with proper direction and tactical training.

Don't write off the season just yet.

[MenstrieSaint]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Good post.

my agenda? Supporting SMFC... end of. 

Did i want Stubbs, no. I thought the board should have shown ambition and gone for Guti, who its said Athletico Madrid see as a potential future manager. Of the options left, Stubbs seemed the best, at least profile wise.

has he done well, no. He has gambled too much on his signing/loan policy, instead of balancing it early doors with a few quality seasoned pro's. Maybe it was a trial he thought worth pursuing given our budget?

the pressure on the next guy is immense, he's git the same players, board, support that done in his predecessor to impress. With the same, or indeed less to work with.

my fear is we will plummet like Sunderland now, continually finding reasons to sack and appoint, rather than find out why our strategy and structure dint work?

Very much my feeling , I think this seasons challenge is to get the team playing together as a team , to get Stubbs signings playing alongside Ross,s signings . I am concerned as much about senior players not giving their all as I am about the quality of Stubbs,s signings , who actually might be not bad if they had the support of their team mates .

[Lord Pityme]

1 minute ago, div said:

Only in the wildest realms of your imagination.

No, its in people's posts. The chapter and verse round Tynecastle on Saturday about, "he's getting sacked, only £40 k to pay him off, McIntyre already primed, he told the team to throw last years medals in the bin" and the bit I, and seemingly 500 odd saints fans missed"Jackson FIGHTING with Cammy Smith in the warm up".

its poor, poor form and will affect bringing in, what should be a 'better' replacement.

they could simply have called him in, told thats it,there's your compo, thanks for having a go.

[MenstrieSaint]

2 minutes ago, Soctty said:

Let's look at the squad left behind.

We have, I think, 10 members of the squad who won the league last season - Samson, Eckersley, Mackenzie, Baird, McGinn, Magennis, McShane, Smith, Mullen, Flynn, plus fringe players like Erhahon, McPherson and Kirkpatrick.

Of the signings, Coulson looked a great prospect when he signed, but his confidence has been sapped over time. Similarly Kpekawa looked good on his debut, before becoming a jitter big lump who looked terrified of making a mistake. A new manager who can restore their confidence could have two very decent players,

Hodson is an experienced international full back who should definitely do a job for us in this league, while Edwards is an experienced midfielder with nearly 100 premiership games under his belt. Brock-Madsen is surely able to be a useful player in the Premiership having scored a few goals in the Eredivisie. Paul McGinn has a lot of Premiership experience as well.

The fellas from down south, the non-league players and loans, are more difficult to predict what impact they could have with proper direction and tactical training.

Don't write off the season just yet.

I like a bit of positivity , let's hope a new signing or two brings the best out of the squad .

[Lord Pityme]

FWIW given Scott's assessment of Gus, before he appointed Ross. I cant see how he could now square that circle, and bring him back after stating he thought he could only take us so far?

so realistically I think Goody will, or would be advised to bodyswerve the hospital pass that is our managers job this time round, which leaves McIntyre.... unless Dundee bag McCann and like everyone else we go for, get him on a better deal first.

[div]

2 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

No, its in people's posts. The chapter and verse round Tynecastle on Saturday about, "he's getting sacked, only £40 k to pay him off, McIntyre already primed, he told the team to throw last years medals in the bin" and the bit I, and seemingly 500 odd saints fans missed"Jackson FIGHTING with Cammy Smith in the warm up".

its poor, poor form and will affect bringing in, what should be a 'better' replacement.

they could simply have called him in, told thats it,there's your compo, thanks for having a go.

Rumours exist around all clubs at all times. Most of the time they are absolutely pish.

Only the players themselves know what has happened at training and in the dressing room over the past few weeks, and likewise only the Staff and Directors at the club truly know what has went on to lead them to the decision that was taken yesterday.

You are speculating that nothing at all happened, and that actually the board just fancied binning him, just for the shits.

I'd say that it utter and complete bollocks. And I'll tell you that to your face if you like.

[Lord Pityme]

Just now, div said:

Rumours exist around all clubs at all times. Most of the time they are absolutely pish.

Only the players themselves know what has happened at training and in the dressing room over the past few weeks, and likewise only the Staff and Directors at the club truly know what has went on to lead them to the decision that was taken yesterday.

You are speculating that nothing at all happened, and that actually the board just fancied binning him, just for the shits.

I'd say that it utter and complete bollocks. And I'll tell you that to your face if you like.

You owe me a pint anyway so you can pay for the privilege. I am not cheap... but i can be bought!

[jaybee]

5 hours ago, shull said:

5 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Took a step back last night when the confirmation came through our manager had been sacked after four league games. It seems the co-ordinated campaign to de-stabilise him with leak, after leak from players, directors and staff got the result they wanted? And please, dont insult either your, or my intelligence sugesting this wasnt a club endorsed approach to build up an Anti Stubbs mob, so the board could make it look like they were getting it right by eventually sacking him.

this shit-strewn type of dirty campaign has been run by clubs before, including ours, and always comes with a much higher cost than those who endorsed and encouraged it ever conceive. So what now? Whats the club strategy now they have succeeded in smearing their own employee?

looking for a new manager? Well yes someone will always take the job, its a job at the end of the day. Question is..? What manager worth their salt will be really interested now? So far names bandied about are Gus Mc Pherson who has just had his team relegated to league two. Then their is club legend Jim Goodwin whose recently promoted Alloa are no better off than us, in a lower league (i wonder if his bosses& players are trying to oust him?). And the other name mentioned is Jim McIntyre, who in his last job won just TWO of his first NINETEEN games in this very league..!

honest opinions, does anyone see either of those three gents being able to lead us to the promised land of Premiership survival given, they will have to work with the self same group of players their predecessor did? I mean if the players dont like the next guy, (Gus and McIntyre suffered this at our club and county) will he be gone after three, four, five defeats..?

and what of this squad? The 'DownToolers'... not exactly covered themselves in glory with their attitudes, whining, performances and finger-pointing. We've had the captain no less, in the media blaming all the new recruits for our poor performances..! Nice to see, like his former manager he's got his teammates backs..! What i think may now be taken out of the club, and players hands is one or more of the loaning clubs taking their players back, as the set up the originally agreed to loan into has changed drastically with the departure of the high level coach (Stubbs) they intrusted their player to.

it was interesting to read on here last night, after the confirmation of Stubbs departure, a more considered group of posters showing genuine concern as to where the club, under this board is heading. Their is a growing concern the board are non-functioning, reactive, poor decision makers and completely lacking in self-belief. How else do you explain the circus around Ross trying almost all of last season to get another job? Feck me he was never off the motorways of the UK taking interviews. Then the drawn out process to replace him, with the board assuring us that in Stubbs... they had found their man. They said;

Stubbs was the "standout candidate".

"He fits in perfectly with the philosophy of the club of promoting young players throughout the team,". "Our youth policy is vital to us and he'll be able to bring those players on.

"He's a fantastic coach, great man manager. He's also got a great presence and I think he will be successful here.

"He's someone the fans will take to and they will get a real lift. He's a well known name and he's a really good person. It's a fantastic fit for the football club."

this after interviewing McIntyre, Caldwell and Kearney...

how could they get it all so completely wrong? Did Stubbs have Mourinho do the interviews for him?

this board need hunting, i dont think its a coincidence that David Nicol the Smisa rep is standing down early. If he's seen through their collective failings, and smear tactics i wouldnt blame him for letting some other poor bugger have to keep their mouths shut for fearnof swallowing the shit they are shoulder deep in.

Excellent post, Sir.

Excellent post my arse! LPM on occasions comes up with some eminently reasonable thoughts and opinions, this occasion is NOT one of them.  LPM chooses his quotes with care as does anyone who are using other people's words to support their own usually 'unsupportable' ideas.  Do you or anyone else with a modicum of intelligence; seriously believe that someone;  as astute as GLS is; would simply wait till things get so bad that they become irrecoverable.  YES, it has only been four league games but the other games were just as bad if not worse and yes he has not had long to attempt to turn it round; correct, but he doesn't seem to want to do that he seems more intent on passing the buck.  His attitude, demeanour and shambolick man-management style are certainly not conducive to him garnering any support within the club and at the end of the day whether it is the BOD or simply GLS who has pulled the plug I think it was definitely the correct decision.  Now these are simply MY opinions which by the way have just as much validity as the crap written by LPM, only I do not need huge capital letters and other peoples quotations to support what I think.  I think St Mirren football club is owned by GLS who having decided that he or the BOD and himself had made a mistake, have now attempted to rectify it before it gets worse, what they do next is up to them.  I think they will try and do the best for the club they all support which by the way is what the likes of LPM and other 'supposed' supporters should also be doing . NOT stirring shit.

[Tommy]

18 minutes ago, div said:

Careful. You call him a liar, you'll need to do it to his face. Looking straight into his eyes.

Seat row and number please and we'll add you to the queue.

 

19 minutes ago, div said:

Careful. You call him a liar, you'll need to do it to his face. Looking straight into his eyes.

Seat row and number please and we'll add you to the queue.

Well it is West stand seat L1  

[linwood buddie]

6 minutes ago, div said:

Rumours exist around all clubs at all times. Most of the time they are absolutely pish.

Only the players themselves know what has happened at training and in the dressing room over the past few weeks, and likewise only the Staff and Directors at the club truly know what has went on to lead them to the decision that was taken yesterday.

You are speculating that nothing at all happened, and that actually the board just fancied binning him, just for the shits.

I'd say that it utter and complete bollocks. And I'll tell you that to your face if you like.

This site is becoming very intimidating , it's getting that you can't disagree with anyone about anything or its a call out

[jaybee]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Still interesting to note that no one is saying the club werent running a smear campaign. Maybe these posters approve of any method the board use to cover up their mess?

You: my friend need to take some lessons on how things work in the real world not the fantasy one that you live in.  Why would a business man who has accumulated millions in deals (one assumes by being nice and polite and considerate to everyone he was doing business with and of course being careful not to upset them and to be equally considerate of all and any sensitivities) be particularly worried about how it looks when he wants to sack someone who really didn't deliver what their interview promised?  And far more importantly: why would anyone consider what you think as being worthy of debate.