Stubbs' Signings

[buddies1877]

1. NOT TRUE - Jack played in more games than Davis or MacK and almost as many as both of them put together - in our very successful year. When MacK returned to fitness he was on the bench for about 15 games while Jack kept his place in the team. Once Davis was benched during that spell, but Jack remained in the 1st team. Once Jack signed a contract extension, and while the other 2 had not, JR dropped Jack - (a) was it because Jack had lost his place OR ( JR was trying to persuade the other two to sign a contract extension? - none of us knows for sure...He was 1st or 2nd  choice more than he was 3rd choice - MacK was 3rd choice more than he was 1st or 2nd Choice and he was unfit more often than not -....

2. Our defence is terrible - Coulson has cost us the most goals this year than any other defender. KP has been dreadful mostly, Alfie has been poor mostly and both Hodson and P McGinn cost us goals in games I have been at - so I agree - BUT our midfield has been poor too - Willock got beaten by his man for 1 of the Gers goals, S McGinn lost his markers loads, and Magennis, who I rate has not really been on form at all - if opposition midfielders and fullbacks can walk right through us, it is no surprise that the "Defence" has been terrible. We have been disjointed and guys have not gelled or had enough ability at this level - the problem is certainly not Baird, though he is not perfect - no one is...

3. We were always going to be playing better opposition this year - a good manager would have signed players who could cope, and have built them into a team to suit this situation. We struggled against Spartans, & QP -so the writing was on the wall from early doors - the Kilmarnock game gave us false hope that Stubbs was setting us up well - but quickly we saw how wrong that was.

4. Fan's love a scape goat - When Jack or any player makes mistakes, fans will criticise - Cole has been completely out of his depth - against Hearts he lost every aerial battle and 2 of them led to goals - at times he looks ok - but he is neither quick enough, good enough at reading a game or winning nearly enough challenges at this level. It is not about age, it is about ability. Jack has played more games at this level than most of the rest of the squad we have, and now he is more mature.. Playing in a makeshift defence creates a loss in confidence to 1 or 2 decent defenders, who are trying to do their own job and cover for the mistakes of others too.. SO Let's sign a quality CB to play along side Jack (We should have signed Halkett for 2 reasons and He was willing to come) and we need better full backs than who we are playing at the moment.. BUT the midfield seriously needs to work better as a defensive unit, as part of the team too..

Rather than signing 9 hopefuls or a couple of has-beens at this level - we really needed 5 or 6 better players than we had in last years squad... there was a clear breakdown is setting this as a clear objective... Good luck to whoever comes in - they need to know this...

Davis was never named on the bench for us.

Mackenzie started the season then got injured missed a long spell was slowly introduced back into the team before starting again then getting injured again at the end of the season.

 

Don’t think jack was injured at all so of course he’d start a lot more games than 2 players with large spells injured with us.

 

A new cb pairing would be better imo.

 

All the defence has cost just as much goals as the other you seem to want to just ignore jacks and blame everyone else lol

 

If jack is our best cb which he prob is atm on current evidence then we are always going to be in big trouble at this level.

 

 

[buddies1877]

Compare that to the 3 goals Coulson was at fault in in the Aberdeen game

What 3 goals was that?

Geez and your having ago at people for giving jack unfair criticism...


From what I remember 1 was sammy’s mistake and another was Cammy Smith lost his man at the back post so that’s 2 of the 4 or was it his fault sammy passed the ball to Aberdeen player and Cammy Smith lost Andrew shinnie at the back post.

You seem to only like selective criticism.

[JJ McG]

3 hours ago, W6Saint said:

One I wouldn’t write off yet is Josh Heaton, I think the boy will be Stubbs’ legacy at the club (providing he’s given the chance on return from injury). Here’s hoping...

 

I have a feeling he will turn out to be decent as well.

[Sweeper07]

1 hour ago, buddies1877 said:

Davis was never named on the bench for us.

Mackenzie started the season then got injured missed a long spell was slowly introduced back into the team before starting again then getting injured again at the end of the season.

 

Don’t think jack was injured at all so of course he’d start a lot more games than 2 players with large spells injured with us.

 

A new cb pairing would be better imo.

 

All the defence has cost just as much goals as the other you seem to want to just ignore jacks and blame everyone else lol

 

If jack is our best cb which he prob is atm on current evidence then we are always going to be in big trouble at this level.

 

 

Correct Davis did not play at QOS because it was Astro and he was not on the bench either. Buchanan was 3rd choice that week...

MacK started the season and had a howler against Ton and got injured. He was fully fit and on the bench for about 15 games - he came on a sub from the earliest one of these in many of the games, but never got back in the team until after Baird signed his contract extension....and he had not... like it or lump it this is a fact...

The point is you said he was 3rd choice - He was 1st or 2nd choice more than both the others 2 for all the reasons that involved.... OR if you want me to spell it out in another way, Davis and MacK were 3rd choice or not even 3rd choice far more than Baird was...

I have said Jack is not perfect either - no one is - BUT it is the unbalanced and unfair abuse and blame Baird gets... Samson had a howler and gave away a goal etc. etc. I have given examples of Baird's faults and showed that he only played a part in the goals they cost - others have been much more culpable and have had little or less criticism.

We both have different opinions, but pick 3 other good players to play with Baird and we could have a really good defence - Stick Boyata in place of Baird in our defence with any of the other 3 we have been playing and I think you would see us still leaking far too many goals, although, with a better manager and better tactics, especially defensively in midfield, it could well improve a bit... JAck is our best and most reliable CB currently. MAcK played in less games and gave away at least as many goals as Baird last season...

[Drew]

Whoever spoke of a clean slate is spot on.

It is time to stop referring to Stubbs' signings. These guys are St Mirren players, and deserve the same support as the rest of their colleagues. We are relying on them to do us a turn, so should offer them our full support. Their association with Stubbs is now history.

[buddies1877]

Correct Davis did not play at QOS because it was Astro and he was not on the bench either. Buchanan was 3rd choice that week...
MacK started the season and had a howler against Ton and got injured. He was fully fit and on the bench for about 15 games - he came on a sub from the earliest one of these in many of the games, but never got back in the team until after Baird signed his contract extension....and he had not... like it or lump it this is a fact...
The point is you said he was 3rd choice - He was 1st or 2nd choice more than both the others 2 for all the reasons that involved.... OR if you want me to spell it out in another way, Davis and MacK were 3rd choice or not even 3rd choice far more than Baird was...
I have said Jack is not perfect either - no one is - BUT it is the unbalanced and unfair abuse and blame Baird gets... Samson had a howler and gave away a goal etc. etc. I have given examples of Baird's faults and showed that he only played a part in the goals they cost - others have been much more culpable and have had little or less criticism.
We both have different opinions, but pick 3 other good players to play with Baird and we could have a really good defence - Stick Boyata in place of Baird in our defence with any of the other 3 we have been playing and I think you would see us still leaking far too many goals, although, with a better manager and better tactics, especially defensively in midfield, it could well improve a bit... JAck is our best and most reliable CB currently. MAcK played in less games and gave away at least as many goals as Baird last season...

Wrong he suffered a concussion in the 1st game then played the Morton game when he shouldn’t have only for him to miss a long spell after due to it.

He started the 2nd game back from injury because it was on Astro turf where Davis then missed out then slowly was introduced back in before getting injured again.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gary-mackenzie/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/29004/plus/0/saison/2017/wettbewerb/SC2/verein/465

15 games lol behave yourself half that and your closer.

When Mackenzie and Davis we’re both fully fit finally towards the end of the season they both featured more often than not.

Had Davis and Mackenzie been fit for the full season jack wouldn’t of started anywhere near the amount he did but they weren’t they both missed out for long spell last season.

[Sweeper07]

1 hour ago, buddies1877 said:

 

What 3 goals was that?

Geez and your having ago at people for giving jack unfair criticism...


From what I remember 1 was sammy’s mistake and another was Cammy Smith lost his man at the back post so that’s 2 of the 4 or was it his fault sammy passed the ball to Aberdeen player and Cammy Smith lost Andrew shinnie at the back post.

You seem to only like selective criticism.

 

1st goal - GMS (right winger unmarked scores the 1st  Coulson should be marking him but has left him with a free shot at the goal).

2nd goal - GMS again runs past and faces no challenge from Coulson,  crosses in for Shinnie who gets in front of his marker who  is posted missing too.

3rd Goal - SAMSON HOWLER

4th Goal - Coulson brought down GMS for the penalty and GMS scored it

 

I don't like selective criticism - I think fair and proportional criticism is BEST

[buddies1877]

1st goal - GMS (right winger unmarked scores the 1st  Coulson should be marking him but has left him with a free shot at the goal).
2nd goal - GMS again runs past and faces no challenge from Coulson,  crosses in for Shinnie who gets in front of his marker who  is posted missing too.
3rd Goal - SAMSON HOWLER
4th Goal - Coulson brought down GMS for the penalty and GMS scored it
 
I don't like selective criticism - I think fair and proportional criticism is BEST

Oh right so hes at fault for not stopping the cross at the 2nd goal but no ones at fault for not stopping the cross on the 1st goal.

[emoji106] you cleared that up

[Sweeper07]

1 minute ago, buddies1877 said:

Wrong he suffered a concussion in the 1st game then played the Morton game when he shouldn’t have only for him to miss a long spell after due to it.

He started the 2nd game back from injury because it was on Astro turf where Davis then missed out then slowly was introduced back in before getting injured again.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gary-mackenzie/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/29004/plus/0/saison/2017/wettbewerb/SC2/verein/465

15 games lol behave yourself half that and your closer.

When Mackenzie and Davis we’re both fully fit finally towards the end of the season they both featured more often than not.

Had Davis and Mackenzie been fit for the full season jack wouldn’t of started anywhere near the amount he did but they weren’t they both missed out for long spell last season.

OK this is my last go at this with you - for we can have different opinions but your arguments don't hold water.

IF MacK started the 2nd game back from injury with Davis missing, and played for 90 minutes, how come it took him nearly 3 months to finally get fully fit - and finally get in before Baird?

Try the St Mirren website and look up the match reports - not some wrong website....

In the last 4 games BAIRD , DAVIS and MAcK all played in 2 games each ….

Had they been fit - this is a supposition - they were not for the most part and reliable Jack Baird was and contributed more than the other 2 combined, to our best season in many years....

Come back all you like - I am done with this one..

[Sweeper07]

3 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:

Oh right so hes at fault for not stopping the cross at the 2nd goal but no ones at fault for not stopping the cross on the 1st goal.

you cleared that up

So he should not be marking his man who ran a mock???

In the 1st goal you are correct in part - whoever got the cross to the unmarked GSM should have shut it down as well...

[faraway saint]

FFS, EVERY goal, in theory, is avoidable.

Some more than others.

Then there are goals that are down to the movement and quality of the opposite team.

It's always easy to criticise, if it was that easy every game would be 0-0. 

[Big Yards]

All Stubbs signings apart from Coulson, willock and Hodson should be shown the door as soon as possible. No messing around! Players like Cody Cooke, Jeff King and kpekawa will never be good enough

[Hambud]

Be interesting to see what happens if new guy comes in and Stubbys guys are all flying in training and get picked ahead of old favourites......and pick up points.

[jaybee]

31 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

We both have different opinions, but pick 3 other good players to play with Baird and we could have a really good defence - Stick Boyata in place of Baird in our defence with any of the other 3 we have been playing and I think you would see us still leaking far too many goals, although, with a better manager and better tactics, especially defensively in midfield, it could well improve a bit... JAck is our best and most reliable CB currently. MAcK played in less games and gave away at least as many goals as Baird last season...

I think this interpretation of Bairds potential is far fairer than all the other knicker-wetters, give him some quality players to help him and he will improve , good post

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, Big Yards said:

All Stubbs signings apart from Coulson, willock and Hodson should be shown the door as soon as possible. No messing around! Players like Cody Cooke, Jeff King and kpekawa will never be good enough

Says the guy who thinks we should sign every nobody in Scottish football? 

 

[St.Ricky]

2 minutes ago, Hambud said:

Be interesting to see what happens if new guy comes in and Stubbys guys are all flying in training and get picked ahead of old favourites......and pick up points.

Players should be and I hope will be picked on merit... Which is I think your point. 

Don't care personally if they were signed  by Alan Stubbs or not but can see the irony in what you write. 

[buddies1877]

OK this is my last go at this with you - for we can have different opinions but your arguments don't hold water. IF MacK started the 2nd game back from injury with Davis missing, and played for 90 minutes, how come it took him nearly 3 months to finally get fully fit - and finally get in before Baird?

Try the St Mirren website and look up the match reports - not some wrong website....

In the last 4 games BAIRD , DAVIS and MAcK all played in 2 games each ….

Had they been fit - this is a supposition - they were not for the most part and reliable Jack Baird was and contributed more than the other 2 combined, to our best season in many years....

Come back all you like - I am done with this one..

 

 

Think you’ll find that’s actually a good site.

 

 

The last 11 games since the 4-1 defeat at Livy jack started only 3 games 1 was away at qots on Astro turf so Davis was left out the other 2 was after the league was settled.

 

Is that not crazy for jack Ross leaving his 1st choice cb out who was fit all season for the run in to win the title?

 

Your talking rubbish and saying Mackenzie had a howler and was injured in the Morton game proves so he had a howler because he shouldn’t have been playing.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/st-mirren-defender-gary-mackenzie-11656010

 

Have a read of that yet more facts to stand upto your nonsense ramblings

 

[buddies1877]

So he should not be marking his man who ran a mock???
In the 1st goal you are correct in part - whoever got the cross to the unmarked GSM should have shut it down as well...

Did I say that?

Your the one piling the blame on him for 3 goals plenty more at fault than just him.

Your a hypocrite moaning at people for giving jack unfair criticism when they don’t criticise others for a similar mistake your doing the exact same for coulson.

[Cornwall_Saint]

Regarding the Jack Baird debate, I think all of Baird/Kpekawa/Jones could use an experienced head next to them. Baird had the experience of Mack and the leadership of Davis last season. This season with Mack injured we've got Baird and Kpekawa as the most "experienced" CBs and that isn't helping matters. Helped even less by adding a younger player in Jones who hasn't played first team football before. I reckon all 3 would benefit from having a Davis or Mack next to them. 

[linwood buddie]

7 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Regarding the Jack Baird debate, I think all of Baird/Kpekawa/Jones could use an experienced head next to them. Baird had the experience of Mack and the leadership of Davis last season. This season with Mack injured we've got Baird and Kpekawa as the most "experienced" CBs and that isn't helping matters. Helped even less by adding a younger player in Jones who hasn't played first team football before. I reckon all 3 would benefit from having a Davis or Mack next to them. 

Maybe the new boss will bring in a couple of experienced Free Agents , whenever he's appointed.

[jaybee]

14 hours ago, faraway saint said:

14 hours ago, Big Yards said:

All Stubbs signings apart from Coulson, willock and Hodson should be shown the door as soon as possible. No messing around! Players like Cody Cooke, Jeff King and kpekawa will never be good enough

Says the guy who thinks we should sign every nobody in Scottish football? 

 

And:  by the way how do you just 'show the door' to players on a contract?  It is hardly their fault that Stubbs signed them and in most cases they will have relocated to Paisley, so now we just say sorry you are no use; sod off.  I wouldn't want to be employed by you.  Hang on! perhaps I would, im sure my solicitor could take a pretty penny from you in court.  

[pod]

14 hours ago, Hambud said:

Be interesting to see what happens if new guy comes in and Stubbys guys are all flying in training and get picked ahead of old favourites......and pick up points.

I'll believe in miracles. 

[pod]

9 minutes ago, jaybee said:

And:  by the way how do you just 'show the door' to players on a contract?  It is hardly their fault that Stubbs signed them and in most cases they will have relocated to Paisley, so now we just say sorry you are no use; sod off.  I wouldn't want to be employed by you.  Hang on! perhaps I would, im sure my solicitor could take a pretty penny from you in court.  

Well, that would explains it all.  

[Paisley brazilians]

Can any of stubbs signings take decent  free kicks and deliver corners.  and any others that are an aerial threat. That is what we are desperately lacking. 

[Paisley brazilians]

15 hours ago, Hambud said:

Be interesting to see what happens if new guy comes in and Stubbys guys are all flying in training and get picked ahead of old favourites......and pick up points.

Is Jesus in for the job aswell!!!!