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Catch 22 - or can we hold on to OK?


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5 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Sometimes the truth hursts correct ? Am i wrong in what i wrote if i am i will admit it if you prove me wrong.

Your the one that flies the intellect flag ( i am a scientist ) me but a simple worker not up to your standard in your words.

So the fact you now deny that food banks, soup kitchens, charity shops are needed all  over the country i ask  you admit to getting it wrong ?

If so i admire the fact you now realise your wrong ?

Good for you even though you see yourself above all in your mind of intellect intelligence . 

We are in different places intellectually. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

If I was a professional footballer, a surgeon or an athlete we wouldn't be having this discussion but because my specialty is science you feel we should be on an equal footing. We are not. Live with it. You wouldn't expect to get in the ring with a professional boxer so why would you think I would want to waste my time debating difficult issues with a guy who spends a lot of time chucking personal abuse at folk on here in general and at myself in particular? You can barely express a coherent thought as evidenced by this thread to name just one!

I am interested in discussing the subtlety about why opening more foodbanks creates demand. Your response is to chuck personal abuse. I would get more sense out of my f**king dog. We are in totally different leagues when it comes to understanding things like this and we are in totally different leagues when it comes to having a civilised debate where two sides LISTEN to each other.

Why does this bother you anyway? You presumably have a set of skills which I couldn't dream of matching but you don't see me calling you names over it.

Chill the f**k out.

 

Edited by oaksoft
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6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

We are in different places intellectually. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

If I was a professional footballer, a surgeon or an athlete we wouldn't be having this discussion but because my specialty is science you feel we should be on an equal footing. We are not. Live with it. You wouldn't expect to get in the ring with a professional boxer so why would you think I would want to waste my time debating difficult issues with a guy who spends a lot of time chucking personal abuse at folk on here in general and at myself in particular? You can barely express a coherent thought as evidenced by this thread to name just one!

I am interested in discussing the subtlety about why opening more foodbanks creates demand. Your response is to chuck personal abuse. I would get more sense out of my f**king dog. We are in totally different leagues when it comes to understanding things like this and we are in totally different leagues when it comes to having a civilised debate where two sides LISTEN to each other.

Why does this bother you anyway? You presumably have a set of skills which I couldn't dream of matching but you don't see me calling you names over it.

Chill the f**k out.

 

There is no personal abuse thrown at you all I have done is point out the use of your  ( We are in different places intellectually )  This is something you throw around the forum not just at me.

It does not bother me In your own words you are way above us all and myself intellectually. Well good for you though I feel sad that you have to keep telling the forum of your superiority intellectually. I have went to the top of my field which has taken me around the world and payed handsomely leading teams of up to 40 personal.  Have been sent to the other-side of the world to carry out an audit. Now I stand on my own feet with a growing business. You don't have to be intellectual to be successful sadly many self proclaimed intellectual snobs look down on others as you do often. 

Oaksoft you have a lot of learning to do. 

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12 hours ago, Paisleyporridge said:

I think this the problem you identify is St Mirren’s opportunity.  Let people attracted to the Old Firm do what they do. We can offer an alternative for people who can’t be bothered with it. 

While I agree we offer an alternative away from the nonsense that is part of the OF the thing we can't offer, and is one of the key reasons people "support" the OF, is winning lots of games and trophies.

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13 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Makes you wonder what people would do without all these "essential" foodbanks. :rolleyes:

We didn't have anywhere near this number in the 80's and we didn't have anywhere near the same level of welfare available to people either and yet I don't recall stepping over piles of bodies to get around the town.

What we are seeing is symptomatic of a culture of dependency and the mass of foodbanks is creating demand. That is where left wing policies takes you.

What we are seeing is the demand rising due to the fact we have a right wing government in Downing Street with, until recently, a cap on public service workers wages meaning they were, in real terms, becoming increasingly poorer. But you don't see that with the blinkers on. No use debating with someone so far up their own **** that they don't even need the blinkers not to see.

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1 minute ago, stlucifer said:

What we are seeing is the demand rising due to the fact we have a right wing government in Downing Street with, until recently, a cap on public service workers wages meaning they were, in real terms, becoming increasingly poorer. But you don't see that with the blinkers on. No use debating with someone so far up their own **** that they don't even need the blinkers not to see.

Don't respond to his abuse, Oaky.

He'll have you on IGNORE as soon as. 

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Not all , I grant you but there are a few.

After they have spent money on Buckie, Ciggies, Dope, Home deliveries, Wait & Return Cabs to various places including McDonald's, Valium Tabs , Heroin and many other non essentials ...........

They have the need of Foodbanks.

Some of these dudes tell me they are on a Benefit called PIP ( never heard of it )

And they can receive up to £1000 per month ( I think their Rent, etc is already paid before )

Anyway, I would rather work.

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What we are seeing is the demand rising due to the fact we have a right wing government in Downing Street with, until recently, a cap on public service workers wages meaning they were, in real terms, becoming increasingly poorer. But you don't see that with the blinkers on. No use debating with someone so far up their own **** that they don't even need the blinkers not to see.

 

Granted, they are very right wing, but Isn’t it the SNP government who are responsible for the public sector pay cap in Scotland?

 

And

 

Are public sector workers typically the type of people who use a food bank?

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3 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Granted, they are very right wing, but Isn’t it the SNP government who are responsible for the public sector pay cap in Scotland?

 

And

 

Are public sector workers typically the type of people who use a food bank?

Yes. But you could say, sort of. Hollyrood has only recently been given tax raising powers. Previously they relied on the moneys given back from GB government and had to live within those means. They would be taking from Peter to pay Paul. I have many concerns about the Scottish Government. Ridiculous blanket cover and interference in our lives. But that's for another day.

And

I am making an educated guess that those "normal" workers being payed by the public purse were getting poorer. Unless they had another source of income. Obviously there are far more than just those in that sector who are in dire need. For someone to try to brush it under the carpet smacks of typical right wing I'm all right Jack, and those  who aren't are to blame entirely for not having the opportunity to be more prosperous. There are many reasons why it's not the case. There is merit in saying some are in a situation of their own doing but I believe that to be a minority.

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Yes. But you could say, sort of. Hollyrood has only recently been given tax raising powers. Previously they relied on the moneys given back from GB government and had to live within those means. They would be taking from Peter to pay Paul. I have many concerns about the Scottish Government. Ridiculous blanket cover and interference in our lives. But that's for another day.
And
I am making an educated guess that those "normal" workers being payed by the public purse were getting poorer. Unless they had another source of income. Obviously there are far more than just those in that sector who are in dire need. For someone to try to brush it under the carpet smacks of typical right wing I'm all right Jack, and those  who aren't are to blame entirely for not having the opportunity to be more prosperous. There are many reasons why it's not the case. There is merit in saying some are in a situation of their own doing but I believe that to be a minority.


The Scottish Goverment have had tax raising powers for over 20 years.

My question was, do public sector sector workers use food banks in general? Does the fact that their wages, in real terms, have gone down mean that they would have to start using food banks?

How do you know that they are in fact poorer? Many have mortgages and with mortgage rates over the past decade being way below what they were previously, they will have bigger disposable incomes than ever before. Factor in house price rises and their final salary pensions, they are probably richer than ever.

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28 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 


The Scottish Goverment have had tax raising powers for over 20 years.

My question was, do public sector sector workers use food banks in general? Does the fact that their wages, in real terms, have gone down mean that they would have to start using food banks?

How do you know that they are in fact poorer? Many have mortgages and with mortgage rates over the past decade being way below what they were previously, they will have bigger disposable incomes than ever before. Factor in house price rises and their final salary pensions, they are probably richer than ever.
 

 

I'm sorry for digressing and deviating from the topic so I promise this will be my last off topic post on here.

The Scottish Government's tax raising powers were in addition to the UK taxes. An added burden on the poorer. They have only recently been given the power to adjust the level that the rates kick in therefore being able to target the rates for a more fair tax policy.  It's still not complete. 

You're working on the premise that those who bought their homes, and remember there are lots who weren't able to do so, are benefitting as much from the interest as to offset any reduction in real term salary.  Also. The price of their property only comes into play when, 1. They are moving their mortgage so that the % of their mortgage is less in comparison to the estimated value of their home or, 2. They are selling their home and not buying another or downsizing. Selling the family silver so to speak. (As an aside, a trend a certain disgusting PM did for the nation). As for disposable income. What about the hikes in fuel for heating and travel? Your probability is as likely as mine but it is only working on an assumption for one part of the population. It still doesn't take away from the fact there are many who rely heavily on this charity.

And, even if a percentage of them have managed to offset the squeeze in salary their would still be many in poverty. Final salary pensions are at the end of their working life. I didn't mention pensioners but I'm sure there are many in that demographic have the need for the foodbanks.

At the end of the day. I concede that there will be some who use foodbanks as a crutch but there are many, IMO, who NEED them, This is what I dispute with the super intelligent gentleman.

Edited by stlucifer
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11 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I'm sorry for digressing and deviating from the topic so I promise this will be my last off topic post on here.

The Scottish Government's tax raising powers were in addition to the UK taxes. An added burden on the poorer. They have only recently been given the power to adjust the level that the rates kick in therefore being able to target the rates for a more fair tax policy.  It's still not complete. 

You're working on the premise that those who bought their homes, and remember there are lots who weren't able to do so, are benefitting as much from the interest as to offset any reduction in real term salary.  Also. The price of their property only comes into play when, 1. They are moving their mortgage so that the % of their mortgage is less in comparison to the estimated value of their home or, 2. They are selling their home and not buying another or downsizing. Selling the family silver so to speak. (As an aside, a trend a certain disgusting PM did for the nation). As for disposable income. What about the hikes in fuel for heating and travel? Your probability is as likely as mine but it is only working on an assumption for one part of the population. It still doesn't take away from the fact there are many who rely heavily on this charity.

And, even if a percentage of them have managed to offset the squeeze in salary their would still be many in poverty. Final salary pensions are at the end of their working life. I didn't mention pensioners but I'm sure there are many in that demographic have the need for the foodbanks.

At the end of the day. I concede that there will be some who use foodbanks as a crutch but there are many, IMO, who NEED them, This is what I dispute with the super intelligent gentleman.

Just need to adjust their household budget and stop purchasing shite and unnecessary items. 

Purchasing Supermarket own brand beans etc instead of Heinz can save loads. 

You get my drift. 

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18 hours ago, northstbuddie said:

No doubt most managers move on at some stage in their careers.

However we do not compare favourably with most other teams currently in the SPFL in terms of holding on to a reasonably successful manager.

We held onto MacPherson for approaching 7 years and to Lennon for 4 - in the end both left at the club's behest.

Managers have a shelflife and if they haven't been poached by about 4/5 years they generally fall victim to "the grass is greener" syndrome - something which is not unique to our club

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I'm sorry for digressing and deviating from the topic so I promise this will be my last off topic post on here.
The Scottish Government's tax raising powers were in addition to the UK taxes. An added burden on the poorer. They have only recently been given the power to adjust the level that the rates kick in therefore being able to target the rates for a more fair tax policy.  It's still not complete. 
You're working on the premise that those who bought their homes, and remember there are lots who weren't able to do so, are benefitting as much from the interest as to offset any reduction in real term salary.  Also. The price of their property only comes into play when, 1. They are moving their mortgage so that the % of their mortgage is less in comparison to the estimated value of their home or, 2. They are selling their home and not buying another or downsizing. Selling the family silver so to speak. (As an aside, a trend a certain disgusting PM did for the nation). As for disposable income. What about the hikes in fuel for heating and travel? Your probability is as likely as mine but it is only working on an assumption for one part of the population. It still doesn't take away from the fact there are many who rely heavily on this charity.
And, even if a percentage of them have managed to offset the squeeze in salary their would still be many in poverty. Final salary pensions are at the end of their working life. I didn't mention pensioners but I'm sure there are many in that demographic have the need for the foodbanks.
At the end of the day. I concede that there will be some who use foodbanks as a crutch but there are many, IMO, who NEED them, This is what I dispute with the super intelligent gentleman.


So you were wrong and the Scottish Government have had tax raising powers for over 20 years?

The Scottish Government also had other ways of affecting tax. For example, they froze council tax for many years, effectively paying for it by imposing a cap on public sector workers pay increases.

How many income tax payers in Scotland use food banks?

I’ll also ask again, are there many public sector workers using food banks? Interested in why you brought them into this subject?

My girlfriend is a private sector worker and hasn’t had a pay rise in over 10 years. Until last year she didn’t even have a pension. Your average public sector worker has far superior benefits to her.
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9 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 


So you were wrong and the Scottish Government have had tax raising powers for over 20 years?

The Scottish Government also had other ways of affecting tax. For example, they froze council tax for many years, effectively paying for it by imposing a cap on public sector workers pay increases.

How many income tax payers in Scotland use food banks?

I’ll also ask again, are there many public sector workers using food banks? Interested in why you brought them into this subject?

My girlfriend is a private sector worker and hasn’t had a pay rise in over 10 years. Until last year she didn’t even have a pension. Your average public sector worker has far superior benefits to her.

 

I did say that was my last but I feel it would be ignorant to ignore you.

Wrong in as much as I meant FAIR. Yes. 

Are you really suggesting that council tax rises are a fair way to raise revenue? If it were up to me it would be scrapped and replaced with a local income tax system which would mean a fairer distribution of responsibility.

The very fact they are used by many in work is enough. The exact %s are difficult to gauge but it is widely agreed that there are a fair number.

I know personally some folk who need them and they ARE public service workers. They don't own their own homes and have a private landlord. I wouldn't imagine they are an isolated case.

Again. The pension is another red herring as it doesn't benefit the worker until AFTER they finish working. Perhaps then they won't need the foodbanks.

 

ETA. Your girlfriend is none of my concern and I don't see the significance in bringing her into the conversation. Unless you're just bragging you could attract one. I too work in the public sector but have no need for foodbanks. And my pension will be sh!t as I only began working for them a coule of years ago and I'm an auld yin.

Edited by stlucifer
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12 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 


So you were wrong and the Scottish Government have had tax raising powers for over 20 years?

The Scottish Government also had other ways of affecting tax. For example, they froze council tax for many years, effectively paying for it by imposing a cap on public sector workers pay increases.

How many income tax payers in Scotland use food banks?

I’ll also ask again, are there many public sector workers using food banks? Interested in why you brought them into this subject?

My girlfriend is a private sector worker and hasn’t had a pay rise in over 10 years. Until last year she didn’t even have a pension. Your average public sector worker has far superior benefits to her.

 

Wow we’re way off-topic here and to think it all came from IOBSs spelling mistake - Mmmmmm-Bop! :jerrry 

Once again you are totally correct that the middle classes have little to fear from the economic "policies" of the SNP - do they actually have any besides being 1% more generous than the Tories?

Of course your girlfriend’s real enemies are the banking fatcats who are fatter than ever just 7 days short of 10 years since the collapse of Lehman Brothers.

There is only one solution - Eat The Rich!

Eat-the-Rich_1_.jpeg?1454548991

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I did say that was my last but I feel it would be ignorant to ignore you. Wrong in as much as I meant FAIR. Yes.  Are you really suggesting that council tax rises are a fair way to raise revenue? If it were up to me it would be scrapped and replaced with a local income tax system which would mean a fairer distribution of responsibility. The very fact they are used by many in work is enough. The exact %s are difficult to gauge but it is widely agreed that there are a fair number.

I know personally some folk who need them and they ARE public service workers. They don't own their own homes and have a private landlord. I wouldn't imagine they are an isolated case.

Again. The pension is another red herring as it doesn't benefit the worker until AFTER they finish working. Perhaps then they won't need the foodbanks.

 

ETA. Your girlfriend is none of my concern and I don't see the significance in bringing her into the conversation. Unless you're just bragging you could attract one. I too work in the public sector but have no need for foodbanks. And my pension will be sh!t as I only began working for them a coule of years ago and I'm an auld yin.

 

 

 

 Not really sure what your comment on council tax has to do with the point I raised about the SNP choosing to pay for the council tax freeze (which mainly benefits those who don’t use food banks) by capping public sector wage increases. I could also have mentioned other SNP middle class subsidies such as no tuition fees, no prescription charges and no bridge tolls. 

Regarding your second paragraph, again, not really sure of the relevance? You made an issue out of public service workers. You’ve still to make clear why?

 

You don’t understand the relevance of me using someone I know as an example yet you go ahead and use people that you know as examples? Are they any more relevant than someone I know?

 

Why would I be bragging about having a girlfriend? The vast majority of people have a partner don’t they? Why would it be something to brag about? She could be a munter for all you know anyway!

 

Anyway, my point regarding my girlfriend is that she has become much poorer over the past 10 years compared with a public sector worker. You brought public sector workers into the discussion specifically, and I’m assuming it’s because you think they have become poorer over the past 10 years compared with private sector workers and are more likely to have to use food banks? It was you who mentioned the cap on wage increases. Just wanted to point out that many in the private sector didn’t get any pay increases and have no pensions.

 

I could have mentioned my old mother in law who lived on disability benefits most of her life, despite not having any disabilities. Are public sector workers more likely to need food banks than those on disability benefits? Are they poorer?

 

In summary, the specific reason you gave for the increase in food banks was the cap on public sector wage increases. Can you provide some evidence of this?

 

Regarding pensions, you can take then benefits from age 55 onwards, whether working or not.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

There is no personal abuse thrown at you all I have done is point out the use of your  ( We are in different places intellectually )  This is something you throw around the forum not just at me.

It does not bother me In your own words you are way above us all and myself intellectually. Well good for you though I feel sad that you have to keep telling the forum of your superiority intellectually. I have went to the top of my field which has taken me around the world and payed handsomely leading teams of up to 40 personal.  Have been sent to the other-side of the world to carry out an audit. Now I stand on my own feet with a growing business. You don't have to be intellectual to be successful sadly many self proclaimed intellectual snobs look down on others as you do often. 

Oaksoft you have a lot of learning to do. 

Have you two every heard of the messaging function. Just an idea for the superior intellect :king

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Wow we’re way off-topic here and to think it all came from IOBSs spelling mistake - Mmmmmm-Bop! default_jerry.gif 

Once again you are totally correct that the middle classes have little to fear from the economic "policies" of the SNP - do they actually have any besides being 1% more generous than the Tories?

Of course your girlfriend’s real enemies are the banking fatcats who are fatter than ever just 7 days short of 10 years since the collapse of Lehman Brothers.

There is only one solution - Eat The Rich!

Eat-the-Rich_1_.jpeg?1454548991&key=64d7d2b05c784176bc9b048c0bbbfddd56d4bddf4c6e0ac3d2211c2bcd4d5781

 

Don’t dispute any of this.

 

Indeed, the financial services fat cats should be round up and shot.

 

This a much bigger factor in the rise of food banks than a cap on public sector wage increases!

 

 

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