truesaint Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 19 hours ago, proudtobeabuddy said: No problems with OK's assessment of the game and i think he knows that the squad isn't good enough. Apart from the comment that the reaction of the "KILMARNOCK" players coming off at half time, with regards to the Mullen penalty claim. Slip of the tongue but still not too clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, truesaint said: Apart from the comment that the reaction of the "KILMARNOCK" players coming off at half time, with regards to the Mullen penalty claim. Slip of the tongue but still not too clever. Can you imagine is Stubbs had made a similar "slip of the tongue".............................fecking carnage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 It's pretty clear that he feels the key problem is that the players are a bit broken psychologically. There is no silver bullet for that I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfellow Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 20 hours ago, buddies1877 said: Robbie Nielsen has a huge squad that’s more than good enough to challenge for winning the championship. Ok had got a squad that probably even isn’t good enough for competing in the premiership never mind staying up. They are managers not magicians they can’t only work with what they have. Quality of squad is irrelevant. Neilson got his motivated. OK hasn't yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 On 10/18/2018 at 2:08 PM, FTOF said: Aye,so we did. Walked back into teaching and will now be collecting his very healthy teacher's pension. That's a very simplistic view, not necessarily supported by facts. My understanding is that TH had to re-start his career as a supply teacher which would have been no bed of roses especially after being a Principal at a large school. A teacher's pension will most likely be a local authority one and he lost at least 2, maybe 3 years service and he would have to work on in order to recoup his losses or accept a lower pension based on length of service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddies1877 Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 Quality of squad is irrelevant. Neilson got his motivated. OK hasn't yetIrrelevant are you for real [emoji15] Strange why east Stirling aren’t in the premiership if only they had a manager that could motivate their players.What utter bullshit the quality of a squad you have and level they play at is irrelevant [emoji23] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 Quality of squad is irrelevant. Neilson got his motivated. OK hasn't yetReally ? Quality of squad is irrelevant? Are you for real ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfellow Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 13 hours ago, buddies1877 said: Irrelevant are you for real Strange why east Stirling aren’t in the premiership if only they had a manager that could motivate their players. What utter bullshit the quality of a squad you have and level they play at is irrelevant My apogies for not making myself clear. Point I was trying to make albeit not very well was that Neilson got a demotivated squad working well. Oran has not got a demotivated squad working well. Of course the quality of the squad matters probably more than anything. My assumption is that given the same squad if Neilson was in charge he would get them motivated and organised quicker than Oran would ie I would have liked Neilson to have been appointed by us but Tony screwed that up. January will confirm whether Oran has the ability to strengthen the squad as well as motivate it and organise it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Oldfellow said: My apogies for not making myself clear. Point I was trying to make albeit not very well was that Neilson got a demotivated squad working well. Oran has not got a demotivated squad working well. Of course the quality of the squad matters probably more than anything. My assumption is that given the same squad if Neilson was in charge he would get them motivated and organised quicker than Oran would ie I would have liked Neilson to have been appointed by us but Tony screwed that up. January will confirm whether Oran has the ability to strengthen the squad as well as motivate it and organise it You don't know the reasons why Neilson knocked us back Also how do you know he would have done any better than Oran with this squad The main problem is midfield and the main energy of it was down to Magennis No real surprise he has been out we have never looked like winning the engine room Too many pretty players no grafters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 25 minutes ago, windae cleaner said: You don't know the reasons why Neilson knocked us back Also how do you know he would have done any better than Oran with this squad The main problem is midfield and the main energy of it was down to Magennis No real surprise he has been out we have never looked like winning the engine room Too many pretty players no grafters We don't "know" albeit widely reported Neilson indicated he felt our expectations were unrealistic, but, like all these things, only a few really know. You have to wonder why he would knock us back as, on paper, we look a decent bet. In fact if you remember Div posted that we would have a queue of prospective managers applying, suggesting we were a nice club. Feck, I nearly applied myself after reading that. Yes, we don't know if he would done any better but one things for sure, it would be hard to do much worse. Agree McGennis is a big miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 14 hours ago, Oldfellow said: Quality of squad is irrelevant. Neilson got his motivated. OK hasn't yet He knocked us back so don't see the point of the discussion. For me Oran is here for the long term . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) Need to move onwards and upwards now. We can beat Motherwell, Sevco 2012 and Dundee. Mullen hopefully cutting out the cheating and scoring a few winners while Sammy starts to create a new Clean Sheet record. Saints 2 Motherwell 0 Saints 1 Sevco (2012) 0 Dundee 0 Saints 1 Hopefully the top teams will drop points as we climb the Table towards the glory end. COME ON THE SAINTS Edited October 29, 2018 by shull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Oldfellow said: My apogies for not making myself clear. Point I was trying to make albeit not very well was that Neilson got a demotivated squad working well. Oran has not got a demotivated squad working well. Of course the quality of the squad matters probably more than anything. My assumption is that given the same squad if Neilson was in charge he would get them motivated and organised quicker than Oran would ie I would have liked Neilson to have been appointed by us but Tony screwed that up. January will confirm whether Oran has the ability to strengthen the squad as well as motivate it and organise it Neilson has managed to get a squad who are possibly the highest paid in their division to play to their standard. There really isn't any valid comparison to make with us in the Premiership. He wasn't interested in a job at a club with one of the smallest budgets in the division. Edited October 29, 2018 by Soctty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 15 hours ago, oaksoft said: It's pretty clear that he feels the key problem is that the players are a bit broken psychologically. There is no silver bullet for that I'm afraid. Correct. Morale and team spirit can't be fixed overnight. Patience and support from the fans can help, but more likely a big turnover of players in January will give us a better chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 15 hours ago, truesaint said: Apart from the comment that the reaction of the "KILMARNOCK" players coming off at half time, with regards to the Mullen penalty claim. Slip of the tongue but still not too clever. I really couldn't care less about a slip of the tongue. Completely irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 12 minutes ago, Soctty said: Correct. Morale and team spirit can't be fixed overnight. Patience and support from the fans can help, but more likely a big turnover of players in January will give us a better chance. Much as I'm pinning my hopes on that , it would be no surprise if there's no improvement at all after January. JR was lucky that things improved in such a short space of time , and if lightning was to strike twice allowing us to make great escape 2 ,then that would be truly remarkable ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, billyg said: Much as I'm pinning my hopes on that , it would be no surprise if there's no improvement at all after January. JR was lucky that things improved in such a short space of time , and if lightning was to strike twice allowing us to make great escape 2 ,then that would be truly remarkable ! I think one of the things which is holding us back is the attitude of the players. Not that their attitude is bad, more the poor morale, almost expecting to lose every week. Team spirit is almost non existent as well. Getting a good number of new players in could give the squad a lift, and improving the areas which are most needed would improve the potential performance levels. We do need more in midfield, more physicality, and also another central defender as we may not be able to count on Ferdinand being fit every week at his age. A bit more pace up front/on the wings would also help us to counter attack more dangerously. Main thing is that the manager needs to be given the time and resources to enable him to have a chance of turning it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 hour ago, windae cleaner said: You don't know the reasons why Neilson knocked us back Also how do you know he would have done any better than Oran with this squad The main problem is midfield and the main energy of it was down to Magennis No real surprise he has been out we have never looked like winning the engine room Too many pretty players no grafters Neilson was quite candid in public, and private that the smfc board were living in cloud cuckoo land regarding their expectations of the new manager - v - budget he would have to work with to achieve said expectations. Stubbs thought he could match it by hoovering up some non league and young loanee talent. Saw it wasnt working, started bringing in pro's with premiership level pedigree (Hodson, Edwards and reportedly made the first contact with Anton). Oran obviously felt he could match the boards crazy expectations on budget available, and has so far been found wanting in putting out a competitive side each week. Again he's turned to higher earning pros like Hammill & Jackson. In essence the board have already made available more budget to him, than they planned! the hard facts of our predicament make uncomfortable reading, that a fair few fans seem unwilling to acknowledge. We have in our side Ferdinand, Hammill, Jackson who have all played in the EPL, one in the Bundesleague. In addition to that we have Hodson, an internationalist who has played in the english championship as well as the Our premiership , Edwards who has played in the premiership. then we have S McGinn (English championship), P McGinn (Premiership), Samson (Premiership), Flynn (played in cup semi finals at wembley, beat EPL sides) Willock (Man utd loanee, played in Holland and Premiership) the point I am making is when was the last time we had at our disposal a group of players who have played at the highest level, or well beyond our normal level, and yet another manager cant get a performance out of them??? our achilles heel are the likes of Baird, Smith, Mullen, McShane, Eckersley, Mackenzie etc who are all well below par, injury prone or both. It is the remnants of Ross's squad that is holding us back now! We won the championship with them, they were on their way out though as Ross realised in those final games we were going backwards. Then Stubbs saw they werent up to it as well and told some they could go, and shipped a few out. Oran is basically repeating the errors Ross made, and that Stubbs tried not to, by going back through these guys and giving them game time in the hope that, for some unknown reason they will suddenly be up to Premiership standard. It hasnt, and it wont work! he is more likely to get performances out of Heaton, Cooke, King and Kwepenka than he is out of a group that Ross didnt fully believe in anymore. Oran is going to have to bite the bullet imo, and play guys who might have a future, rather than the ones who only have yesterday to look back on. He will get absolute pelters for it, but he'll get that anyway as people try to blame him next for "Tearing up the championship winning side" when in reality even Ross knew they were collectively and for a fair few individually a spent force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 53 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Neilson was quite candid in public, and private that the smfc board were living in cloud cuckoo land regarding their expectations of the new manager - v - budget he would have to work with to achieve said expectations. Stubbs thought he could match it by hoovering up some non league and young loanee talent. Saw it wasnt working, started bringing in pro's with premiership level pedigree (Hodson, Edwards and reportedly made the first contact with Anton). Oran obviously felt he could match the boards crazy expectations on budget available, and has so far been found wanting in putting out a competitive side each week. Again he's turned to higher earning pros like Hammill & Jackson. In essence the board have already made available more budget to him, than they planned! the hard facts of our predicament make uncomfortable reading, that a fair few fans seem unwilling to acknowledge. We have in our side Ferdinand, Hammill, Jackson who have all played in the EPL, one in the Bundesleague. In addition to that we have Hodson, an internationalist who has played in the english championship as well as the Our premiership , Edwards who has played in the premiership. then we have S McGinn (English championship), P McGinn (Premiership), Samson (Premiership), Flynn (played in cup semi finals at wembley, beat EPL sides) Willock (Man utd loanee, played in Holland and Premiership) the point I am making is when was the last time we had at our disposal a group of players who have played at the highest level, or well beyond our normal level, and yet another manager cant get a performance out of them??? our achilles heel are the likes of Baird, Smith, Mullen, McShane, Eckersley, Mackenzie etc who are all well below par, injury prone or both. It is the remnants of Ross's squad that is holding us back now! We won the championship with them, they were on their way out though as Ross realised in those final games we were going backwards. Then Stubbs saw they werent up to it as well and told some they could go, and shipped a few out. Oran is basically repeating the errors Ross made, and that Stubbs tried not to, by going back through these guys and giving them game time in the hope that, for some unknown reason they will suddenly be up to Premiership standard. It hasnt, and it wont work! he is more likely to get performances out of Heaton, Cooke, King and Kwepenka than he is out of a group that Ross didnt fully believe in anymore. Oran is going to have to bite the bullet imo, and play guys who might have a future, rather than the ones who only have yesterday to look back on. He will get absolute pelters for it, but he'll get that anyway as people try to blame him next for "Tearing up the championship winning side" when in reality even Ross knew they were collectively and for a fair few individually a spent force. I shouldn't bite BUT Baird has played in the Scottish Premiership previously and has been in the team every time this season I believe - so not injury prone either. He has also been one of the most capable, consistent and hard working players in many of the games. He is human and has made a few mistakes or things that have not worked out at times, but I would hate to imagine what the scores would have been with KP or the very injury prone Heaton at the heart of our defence. KP is as slow as a sloth....Heaton has managed to get on the bench twice I think.. Cooke and King are not good enough for the Scottish 2nd division... The underlying issue is the squad overall is not good enough and the number of players who are injured has left us thin on the ground. I think the subs on Saturday apart from the Goalie were all really midfielders. (I know some say Smith is a forward, but he works in midfield and pushes on to support the strikers more than an all out striker.) No manager would want that kind of balance - so why would he have it - these were the fittest.best guys he had available. Stubbs and injuries left OK a bad hand - given time more of the Jackson, Ferdinand and Hammill quality and more fit players will definitely help... Give this manager your support - what a difficult task he has taken on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginthepast Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 I watched a Northern Ireland league match on Sky the other night. It was like watching the Juniors. I see that East Fife had won 8 games on the trot until they came up against Dumbarton and their new manager Jim Duffy at the weekend, and got cuffed 4 nil by the Sons. You've got to wonder what qualifications Gordon Scott and the rest of his so called Board have for recruitment and selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said: I watched a Northern Ireland league match on Sky the other night. It was like watching the Juniors. I see that East Fife had won 8 games on the trot until they came up against Dumbarton and their new manager Jim Duffy at the weekend, and got cuffed 4 nil by the Sons. You've got to wonder what qualifications Gordon Scott and the rest of his so called Board have for recruitment and selection. So much negativity Give him a chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Sweeper07 said: I shouldn't bite BUT Baird has played in the Scottish Premiership previously and has been in the team every time this season I believe - so not injury prone either. He has also been one of the most capable, consistent and hard working players in many of the games. He is human and has made a few mistakes or things that have not worked out at times, but I would hate to imagine what the scores would have been with KP or the very injury prone Heaton at the heart of our defence. KP is as slow as a sloth....Heaton has managed to get on the bench twice I think.. Cooke and King are not good enough for the Scottish 2nd division... The underlying issue is the squad overall is not good enough and the number of players who are injured has left us thin on the ground. I think the subs on Saturday apart from the Goalie were all really midfielders. (I know some say Smith is a forward, but he works in midfield and pushes on to support the strikers more than an all out striker.) No manager would want that kind of balance - so why would he have it - these were the fittest.best guys he had available. Stubbs and injuries left OK a bad hand - given time more of the Jackson, Ferdinand and Hammill quality and more fit players will definitely help... Give this manager your support - what a difficult task he has taken on.... I hear all this, and I will support Saints , but OK knew perfectly well what he was taking on.................. My problem is not the personnel, we all lnow recruitment under Stubbs was poor. Its tactics. On paper we have a better team than Livi and Accies, yet especially in Livis case, a change of manager is seemless, they just all know their jobs and do them highly effectively. We had a 1-0 lead v Killie and we prepare for backlash We are drawing 0-0 with 10 man Celtic- 2nd half we park the bus We are drawing against Fakes 0-0, 2nd half we simply dont turn up..... Look I get we have injuries, I get we have some players that just take a wage................... We have just lost matches against our closest rivals. Fakes should have beat us by 5 or 6............... I will go with hope on Wednesday, that we will show 90 mins not 45 mins ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 34 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said: I watched a Northern Ireland league match on Sky the other night. It was like watching the Juniors. I see that East Fife had won 8 games on the trot until they came up against Dumbarton and their new manager Jim Duffy at the weekend, and got cuffed 4 nil by the Sons. You've got to wonder what qualifications Gordon Scott and the rest of his so called Board have for recruitment and selection. What a bizarre post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, DougJamie said: I hear all this, and I will support Saints , but OK knew perfectly well what he was taking on.................. My problem is not the personnel, we all lnow recruitment under Stubbs was poor. Its tactics. On paper we have a better team than Livi and Accies, yet especially in Livis case, a change of manager is seemless, they just all know their jobs and do them highly effectively. We had a 1-0 lead v Killie and we prepare for backlash We are drawing 0-0 with 10 man Celtic- 2nd half we park the bus We are drawing against Fakes 0-0, 2nd half we simply dont turn up..... Look I get we have injuries, I get we have some players that just take a wage................... We have just lost matches against our closest rivals. Fakes should have beat us by 5 or 6............... I will go with hope on Wednesday, that we will show 90 mins not 45 mins ....... Kearney knew what he was taking on, and so did we. Seems some of us have shorter memories than others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Soctty said: Kearney knew what he was taking on, and so did we. Seems some of us have shorter memories than others... As above, I am not questioning that However I am questioning that disgraceful display v Fakes................. that was embarrassing , think others have said, the very least we expect is the players to give 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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