Bud the Baker Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: It was the manner in which we lost the games clearly players were not trying or did not understand orders. Now our away games are just as bad under Oran however we do play much better at home keep that up then hopfully we start to see wins. So, in effect, you're justifying Stubbsy's sacking on one home game - the defeat against Livi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 So, in effect, you're justifying Stubbsy's sacking on one home game - the defeat against Livi. Personally, I'd justify his sacking on the players he signed, squad he assembled, losing the dressing room in around 2 months in addition to how the team performed and results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 8 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: Whereas your solution was to keep the first underperforming manager unperforming all the way through until December? Kpekawa, Coulson, Jones, and Brock-Madsen would still be starting every game and we wouldn't have signed Ferdinand, Hammil or Jackson. Do you think we would have taken a point off Celtic at home if you-know-who was still manager? Dear oh dear, the thing is we'll never know what we might have done or who we might have signed. Both these points are subjective and not a certainty, as you suggest. What we DID do was draw with Killie away and some are getting a semi because we lost at home to them. What we HAVE done is get embarrassed at Hamilton, Aberdeen and St Johnstone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 I'm genuinely perplexed by the apparent negativity that LPM and BtheB show for our present Manager. Yes the results aren't good, and in some cases it is apparent that we are being overwhelmed by the opposition, but other than going 7-2-1 and "parking the so-called bus" he can only go with what he has to try and turn it around. If you have ever been in management of any kind, there is one simple rule, don't come in and alienate the staff that you have to work with. If they are poor at what they do, you have to find a way to get the best out of them, encourage and support and yet at the same time gain respect and try to inspire them. The tone of your posts tend to suggest that OK shouldn't be given the time nor the courtesy of patience to try and work a minor miracle, and even then if he fails, be given much further time to re-build and give our supporters what they crave, a team that can survive at this level. We can not as a club continue to keep turning managers over like a vegetable patch that needs renewal every year, and the only solution to this is to appoint someone who can work within our financial and management constraints and at the same time has built up some kind of reputation for developing players and getting the best out of the men in front of him. JR had that and it is apparent OK also has that, if any of the positive comments made by his previous charges and supporters are anything to go by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: 30 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: So, in effect, you're justifying Stubbsy's sacking on one home game - the defeat against Livi. Personally, I'd justify his sacking on the players he signed, squad he assembled, losing the dressing room in around 2 months in addition to how the team performed and results. IOBS was! I was far from being uncritical of Stubbsy but it's clear there was more to his sacking than results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 8 hours ago, DougJamie said: Just one other point our present manager was passed on by our BOD... 5 months ago. Just a fact A mistake they rectified within 3 months, some would say. Also a mistake which has led to us being the position we are in, with a squad belonging to the previous manager, and the new manager doing what he can with it until he can make any real changes to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 8 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: Whereas your solution was to keep the first underperforming manager unperforming all the way through until December? Kpekawa, Coulson, Jones, and Brock-Madsen would still be starting every game and we wouldn't have signed Ferdinand, Hammil or Jackson. Do you think we would have taken a point off Celtic at home if you-know-who was still manager? And you have no clue to what may have happened either? Facts are that Stubbs treatment by our club was a joke, openly riduculed by players who in my opinion should have been sacked. McGinn is a waste of space and if he is playing injured then what does that say abour present management team. Eckesley hasnt even played yet shouts his mouth . The BOD appointed Stubbs, they gave him complete free reign on recruitment, he got it wrong but he isnt this monster that some are making out Fact is- Jack leaving messed up our club, there is clearly no plan b, and whilst I am on the warpath , Fitz blabbing his silly mouth off about winning the league, Leicester, top 4 when the club is up in the air has not helped. There is never one reason why a team that used to win loads goes to losing loads, Accies arent that much better than Caley and we took 10 points off them last season. One thing I do know is we have to pick up points before the Jan window, and Oran and the team needs to step up to the plate now................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, The Original 59er said: I'm genuinely perplexed by the apparent negativity that LPM and BtheB show for our present Manager. Yes the results aren't good, and in some cases it is apparent that we are being overwhelmed by the opposition, but other than going 7-2-1 and "parking the so-called bus" he can only go with what he has to try and turn it around. If you have ever been in management of any kind, there is one simple rule, don't come in and alienate the staff that you have to work with. If they are poor at what they do, you have to find a way to get the best out of them, encourage and support and yet at the same time gain respect and try to inspire them. The tone of your posts tend to suggest that OK shouldn't be given the time nor the courtesy of patience to try and work a minor miracle, and even then if he fails, be given much further time to re-build and give our supporters what they crave, a team that can survive at this level. We can not as a club continue to keep turning managers over like a vegetable patch that needs renewal every year, and the only solution to this is to appoint someone who can work within our financial and management constraints and at the same time has built up some kind of reputation for developing players and getting the best out of the men in front of him. JR had that and it is apparent OK also has that, if any of the positive comments made by his previous charges and supporters are anything to go by. What's negative about stating the facts, i.e. that results haven't improved since OK arrived? After the Livi game when AS was effectively a dead man walking we only signed one player before the transfer window closed - OK has inherited a poisoned chalice and I have mucho, mucho sympathy for him. What I disagree with is the exaggeration of how bad things were under AS and the "monstering" of him. Edited October 31, 2018 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: So, in effect, you're justifying Stubbsy's sacking on one home game - the defeat against Livi. Picking up ( what you want ) from what I wrote , carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said: What about the subsequent 5 defeats - like I said bizarre logic! Yeah I would gave got Stubbsy & the senior players together and told them both to grow up and do the job they were being paid to do. PS - I was sceptical about Stubbsy's signing policy in terms of urgency and experience while many of the "sackers" on here were still saying he was the man, I just don't think September was the correct time to sack a newly appointed manager, even earlier if you accept he was a "dead man walking" after the Livi game. I was not in favour of sacking Stubbs when we did, just as I wasn't in favour of appointing him. What I am in favour of is giving a manager a fair chance, and since Kearney is the man in possession of the job at the moment, I'll give him what I consider to be fair backing in the circumstances. Kearney has had us competitive at home and insipid away from home. He knows this has to improve, either by us picking up the points our home form possibly deserves, or by improving our competitiveness away from home - preferably both. I can see progress in terms of the players OK has brought in, and the home performances. A win would make a huge difference to both the morale of the players and the pressure they are under. The longer we go without a win, the more pressure the manager will be under, but we need to be patient and give him time imo, as getting into another cycle of quickfire sackings will only weaken us both financially and on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: IOBS was! I was far from being uncritical of Stubbsy but it's clear there was more to his sacking than results! Aye yet getting there will give you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: What's negative about stating the facts, i.e. that results haven't improved since OK arrived? After the Livi game when AS was effectively a dead man walking we only signed one player before the transfer window closed - OK as inherited a poisoned chalice and I have mucho, mucho sympathy for him. What I disagree with is the exaggeration of how bad things were under AS and the "monstering" of him. Which started as soon as he became the manager. In fact, didn't someone start a thread stating he was this dead man WAY before the Livi game? Edited October 31, 2018 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Original 59er said: I'm genuinely perplexed by the apparent negativity that LPM and BtheB show for our present Manager. Yes the results aren't good, and in some cases it is apparent that we are being overwhelmed by the opposition, but other than going 7-2-1 and "parking the so-called bus" he can only go with what he has to try and turn it around. If you have ever been in management of any kind, there is one simple rule, don't come in and alienate the staff that you have to work with. If they are poor at what they do, you have to find a way to get the best out of them, encourage and support and yet at the same time gain respect and try to inspire them. The tone of your posts tend to suggest that OK shouldn't be given the time nor the courtesy of patience to try and work a minor miracle, and even then if he fails, be given much further time to re-build and give our supporters what they crave, a team that can survive at this level. We can not as a club continue to keep turning managers over like a vegetable patch that needs renewal every year, and the only solution to this is to appoint someone who can work within our financial and management constraints and at the same time has built up some kind of reputation for developing players and getting the best out of the men in front of him. JR had that and it is apparent OK also has that, if any of the positive comments made by his previous charges and supporters are anything to go by. You are missing my point which is not showing negativity towards Oran. my point is this, we know Stubbs cocked up by recruiting too much inexperience. He did however as everyone seems to agree have several weeks to review the players he inherited, and told a fair few of them some home truths regarding how they were performing against premiership opposition, and who wouldnt get game time! its alleged he told some of them to "send the championship medals to Lewis Morgan" as he effectively won the league for them. Now looking at the results and individual performances of those players outspoken against Stubbs... can anyone say he called it wrong? Oran is dropping the self same players, but for some reason thats OK (pardon the pun). It is the players that Stubbs, and now Oran have inherited that are draghing us down. My only criticisms of Oran is not replacing like for like when Anton went off against Killie, and also not immediately sticking a midfielder on for a forward to stuff them out and see the game out. And giving those players he inherited from last season another run through to see if they have somehow improved. its the time for him to be hung for a sheep, than a lamb and pick the younger, pacey players to support the quality of Anton, Hammill and Jackson. And yes park the bus until he's got a drivable route to goal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, Soctty said: I was not in favour of sacking Stubbs when we did, just as I wasn't in favour of appointing him. What I am in favour of is giving a manager a fair chance, and since Kearney is the man in possession of the job at the moment, I'll give him what I consider to be fair backing in the circumstances. Kearney has had us competitive at home and insipid away from home. He knows this has to improve, either by us picking up the points our home form possibly deserves, or by improving our competitiveness away from home - preferably both. I can see progress in terms of the players OK has brought in, and the home performances. A win would make a huge difference to both the morale of the players and the pressure they are under. The longer we go without a win, the more pressure the manager will be under, but we need to be patient and give him time imo, as getting into another cycle of quickfire sackings will only weaken us both financially and on the pitch. Reasonable and balanced post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Observation: the only people talking about "not sacking Oran so soon" are the ones who say "we shouldnt be sacking Oran so soon".. go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Picking up ( what you want ) from what I wrote , carry on. You discount away games and Stubbsy was only in charge for one home defeat - what else was I supposed to pick up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Lord Pityme said: Observation: the only people talking about "not sacking Oran so soon" are the ones who say "we shouldnt be sacking Oran so soon".. go figure! Indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: You discount away games and Stubbsy was only in charge for one home defeat - what else was I supposed to pick up? The reason why we now play better at home ? We all know Stubbs was not sacked just because of results it is well documented something I'm not going to go into it has been more than covered. We dust ourselves down give Oran as much time as he needs even if it's relegation stability is the name of the game for St Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 And you have no clue to what may have happened either? Facts are that Stubbs treatment by our club was a joke, openly riduculed by players who in my opinion should have been sacked. McGinn is a waste of space and if he is playing injured then what does that say abour present management team. Eckesley hasnt even played yet shouts his mouth . The BOD appointed Stubbs, they gave him complete free reign on recruitment, he got it wrong but he isnt this monster that some are making out Fact is- Jack leaving messed up our club, there is clearly no plan b, and whilst I am on the warpath , Fitz blabbing his silly mouth off about winning the league, Leicester, top 4 when the club is up in the air has not helped. There is never one reason why a team that used to win loads goes to losing loads, Accies arent that much better than Caley and we took 10 points off them last season. One thing I do know is we have to pick up points before the Jan window, and Oran and the team needs to step up to the plate now................. Opinions aren't fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: The reason why we now play better at home ? We all know Stubbs was not sacked just because of results it is well documented something I'm not going to go into it has been more than covered. We dust ourselves down give Oran as much time as he needs even if it's relegation stability is the name of the game for St Mirren. I really don't get this. We were in the diddy league for years, we, finally, get out when it was well documented the top league is where we want to be, and your quite happy we go down to keep a manager? Going by your logic we would have been better keeping the previous manager. Edited October 31, 2018 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 27 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Reasonable and balanced post. THIS: from an unreasonable and unbalanced poster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: 33 minutes ago, DougJamie said: And you have no clue to what may have happened either? Facts are that Stubbs treatment by our club was a joke, openly riduculed by players who in my opinion should have been sacked. McGinn is a waste of space and if he is playing injured then what does that say abour present management team. Eckesley hasnt even played yet shouts his mouth . The BOD appointed Stubbs, they gave him complete free reign on recruitment, he got it wrong but he isnt this monster that some are making out Fact is- Jack leaving messed up our club, there is clearly no plan b, and whilst I am on the warpath , Fitz blabbing his silly mouth off about winning the league, Leicester, top 4 when the club is up in the air has not helped. There is never one reason why a team that used to win loads goes to losing loads, Accies arent that much better than Caley and we took 10 points off them last season. One thing I do know is we have to pick up points before the Jan window, and Oran and the team needs to step up to the plate now................. Opinions aren't fact Of course they are ..... Opinion was Stubbs was crap that opinion got him sacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 12 hours ago, Lord Pityme said: Hasnt McLeish called him up yet? ffs... Baird is better than Ferdinand..? Over the season so far BAIRD has contributed more - Ferdinand was useless on Saturday.... let's judge it over the season... Ferdinand is an experienced and astute pro...but he is at the twilight of his career and a bit slower these days... Baird is still improving and getting stronger every season... I'm confident that Baird will score more goals for us and play more games for us this season - and playing is the primary way of contributing to results... Not many St Mirren players get senior call ups until they join the old firm or other bigger teams … its sad but true.. and McLeish being Scotland Manager, not sure for how much longer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: The reason why we now play better at home ? We all know Stubbs was not sacked just because of results it is well documented something I'm not going to go into it has been more than covered. We dust ourselves down give Oran as much time as he needs even if it's relegation stability is the name of the game for St Mirren. Stability would've been sorting the dispute between Stubbs & the "senior players". Instead we took ourselves out of the transfer market at a crucial time and ended up paying compo to Stubbs, Jackson, Coleraine & Queens Park and now it seems an extra non-playing wage to Jimmy Nicoll shortly. You're one of the biggest swingers (sic) in the sacking stakes - I fully expect you to be calling for OKs head before me! Edited October 31, 2018 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 You have to wonder why anyone with any sanity would want to become a football manager of St Mirren! In this day of the armchair warrior criticism can fly in at any moment and get public notice. Yet that doesn't seem to be necessarily the catalyst for the replacement of a manager! Since 1970, a period of 48 years (long before anyone had real access to a keyboard), we have turned over a total of 23 managers - an average of roughly 2 years and one month of residency. The odd exception has been Gus McPherson (6.66 years), Jimmy Bone (6.25 yrs), Danny Lennon (3yrs and 11 months), which if you take these three out of the equation the average time for a Saints Manager to work miracles is basically 1.5 years. We desperately need stability and someone who we place our trust in and stop the constant merry-go-round approach of sacking the manager if the results are bad. Why don't we stop the moaning and just accept we are a provincial club that is an ideal stepping stone for players and managers. Yes the person in charge has to have the basic credentials, but they also need to get the best out of a random bunch of individuals and blend them into a team, and then perpetuate that on an on-going basis. You only achieve that by firstly appointing someone who meets the criteria, then give them time and resources to bring the project to fruition. We must be near to being the laughing stock of Scottish football in terms of some of the appointments made and the turnover of management. The above stats suggest that the decision making process in a number of the appointments has been woefully poor and misguided. I don't get the impression at all that Oran Kearney isn't the right kind of person to fit our jumbled up jigsaw of a club. He says the right things, he comes with an educated background and a history of getting the best out of limited resources. Give the man a good chance for Pete's sake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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