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Lord Pityme

Oran's pick v The Board's man?

Oran v The Board  

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5 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

I don’t get that though Div. Why does creating a TD role provide continuity? What if the TD is doing a shite job and needs to get sacked? Why are we assuming that it will be the manager who would be getting the tin tack?

In fact if Oran is in as Manager and Gus comes in as TD, I know who my cash would be on (if any) for doing the shite job.

If we take the "man" away and look at the role the hope would be that the role would be filled by someone who was here for the long term. If the role is that important they will keep going until they get the "man" in place that will bring the continuity to the position. It's probably true for every new position in every business environment.

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7 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

If we take the "man" away and look at the role the hope would be that the role would be filled by someone who was here for the long term. If the role is that important they will keep going until they get the "man" in place that will bring the continuity to the position. It's probably true for every new position in every business environment.

So it’s the role that’s providing the continuity, not the person in it? OK I get that, but Aren’t they two completely different roles? In which case, why would the incumbent TD (whoever that me be) necessarily have the skills to take over a managers job?

I guess the reason I don’t know the answer to that question, is because I don’t think there’s been a single person yet who’s been able to articulate clearly what the role of a TD is!

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1 minute ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

So it’s the role that’s providing the continuity, not the person in it? OK I get that, but Aren’t they two completely different roles? In which case, why would the incumbent TD (whoever that me be) necessarily have the skills to take over a managers job?

I guess the reason I don’t know the answer to that question, is because I don’t think there’s been a single person yet who’s been able to articulate clearly what the role of a TD is!

I think the second part is the bit in a nutshell......I haven't at any point thought the TD was there to take over from the manager if he didn't work out, certainly not on a permanent basis anyway!!

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2 hours ago, div said:

I'd guess, since the Chairman has already stated that his reason for looking at a Technical Director role was to have some form of constant going forward, that it would therefore not make a whole lot of sense to have the manager alone choose the person who takes up that position?

The board will almost certainly be here longer than the manager.

No St.Mirren manager since the war has lasted any longer than the 7 year stint that, ironically, Gus MacPherson managed between 2003 and 2010.

If it is for continuity it means this Technical director is going to be heavily involved in scouting and bringing in players as well as looking after the academy to see what we have and what we need.

As far as I'm concerned this alone should count Wee Angry out. What has he done recently to merit even being considered for such a pivotal role which will see past a managers contract?

Jobs for the mates I think, and, given it's being paid for with the clubs coffers, without it costing Scott anything. GS should hang his head in shame.

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WHAT IS A DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL?

Former Leicester director of football Dave Bassett said: "You're a buffer. The director of football is answerable to the board but there to assist the manager. He's experienced in football and there to help the board members who don't have that experience.

 

Micky Adams (left) and Dave Bassett
Adams and Bassett had their ups and downs with Leicester

"It means the manager is left to look after all the professionals at the club, the teamwork, tactics, fitness, medical side and picking the team.

 

"The director is responsible for the budget to be spent on wages and makes sure it is adhered to. He should be above the academy level to ensure that the money on youth level is not being overspent.

"Secondly the director of football has to be involved in the selection of the manager so that when the manager gets the job he knows the director of football is fully supportive because he selected him.

"That means to some extent the director of football's head is on the line because it was his decision."

 

If it's anything like above, then we will be doing it arse from elbow.

 

Edited by pod

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Gordon Scott has already stated the role is being created to help avoid the utter shite transfer window we have just suffered.....which was a repeat of pretty much every other window that Jack Ross wasn't involved in. 

I can't believe the amount of posters here that don't see this as a priority for the club.

The role would surely be focused on  long-term planning in relation to squad building, budgets, and generating revenue from player sales.  As an example, young Ethan Erhanon is expected to break in to the team during the time that Kearney is in charge.  History would suggest Kearney will be away in the next two to three seasons and therefore Ethan will be sold during the start of the next managers time. A TD should be scouting now for players that could replace Ethan, get them in our academy if possible or just keep tabs on them so we have 9 or 10 targets in mind when he moves on.  A full time TD should provide us with an in-depth knowledge of all players we could realistically approach across the UK and Ireland and stop the panic signing of the likes of Allan Gow.  With that in mind, it is without a doubt worth trying!

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11 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Gordon Scott has already stated the role is being created to help avoid the utter shite transfer window we have just suffered.....which was a repeat of pretty much every other window that Jack Ross wasn't involved in. 

 

Quote
On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 12:58 PM, Drew said:

Wouldn't you rather any new manager can immediately bring in his own choice of players?

No, if he goes the time it'll take to appoint a new manager will leave us in limbo at the most critical time of the season - unless it's JF which would be the best option if JR does go IMO.

 

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22 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Gordon Scott has already stated the role is being created to help avoid the utter shite transfer window we have just suffered.....which was a repeat of pretty much every other window that Jack Ross wasn't involved in. 

I can't believe the amount of posters here that don't see this as a priority for the club.

The role would surely be focused on  long-term planning in relation to squad building, budgets, and generating revenue from player sales.  As an example, young Ethan Erhanon is expected to break in to the team during the time that Kearney is in charge.  History would suggest Kearney will be away in the next two to three seasons and therefore Ethan will be sold during the start of the next managers time. A TD should be scouting now for players that could replace Ethan, get them in our academy if possible or just keep tabs on them so we have 9 or 10 targets in mind when he moves on.  A full time TD should provide us with an in-depth knowledge of all players we could realistically approach across the UK and Ireland and stop the panic signing of the likes of Allan Gow.  With that in mind, it is without a doubt worth trying!

IF it is a necessity then one thing is for sure.

If Bassett is even remotely close to highlighting the duties it only cements my view the wee angry is the LAST person that should be in the position. Utter madness to have a man who felt the youth academy was secondary to bringing in has beens and never were. A manager who had open disdain for the support. A man who thought football should be bland boring and monotonous. 

God only knows who we'll end up with in the playing squad.

If he doesn't have the authority to pick the newbies then where is the continuity if a manager leaves? If he doesn't have the authority to decide what is good in the academy then how could he decide what is needed to be brought in?

Nope

Wee angry shouldn't be anywhere near getting this sort of responsibility...… Unless he was MY mate!

Edited by stlucifer

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1 hour ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

I don’t think there’s been a single person yet who’s been able to articulate clearly what the role of a TD is!

It’s six points, awarded when the ball gets into the endzone, either carried in, or caught when thrown. The opportunity then exists for the extra point kick to be scored. Or, if the situation merits it, a two-point conversion can be attempted instead.

Articulate enough for you? Do I win a prize?

Edited by pozbaird

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The role would be perfect for Tony Fitzpatrick , though Jimmy Nicholl would be an excellent choice , its a part time job , and both should be able to fit it in nicely with their current remit . 

It would be an absolute waste of money to  make Gus McPherson an offer to tempt from Queens Park , then  make him an acceptable salary offer . 

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6 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

It’s six points, awarded when the ball gets into the endzone, either carried in, or caught when thrown. The opportunity then exists for the extra point kick to be scored. Or, if the situation merits it, a two-point conversion can be attempted instead.

Articulate enough for you? Do I win a prize?

Aye, "Unfunny as Feck" award, yet again ,well done. 

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4 hours ago, waldorf34 said:

This is going to cost serious money, will we be stuck with this staffing level if we go down,?

All the diddies Stubbs brought in is going to cost us serious money.

The purpose of this role is to add continuity and prevent what happened this summer from happening again.

I think its a great decision and proves we are moving in the right direction with people in charge who are trying to take this club onto a new level.

Edited by LargsBud

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9 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Your jumping the gun LPM. Quote directly from Oran copy and paste it does not exist. It was paper talk. Not like you to go against the board. 

Whit?

You spend the whole of yesterday criticising me for wanting proper evidence for stuff you posted which you had picked up from newspapers and conspiracy theory websites and now you are criticising LPM for doing the exact opposite!

Unbelievable :lol:

 

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1 minute ago, St.Ricky said:

OK.  if there is to be a TD then why not Tony Fitz. No disrespect to Tony but would let a new General Manager be appointed to run all non football aspects of the club. 

Gus MacPherson was a successful manager, Tony Fitzpatrick wasn't. We would probably end up signing Ricky Gillies for 1 million quid.

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12 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

All the diddies Stubbs brought in is going to cost us serious money.

The purpose of this role is to add continuity and prevent what happened this summer from happening again.

I think its a great decision and proves we are moving in the right direction with people in charge who are trying to take this club onto a new level.

Could somebody please explain HOW this is going to add continuity IF the manager is allowed to say what he needs and who is best suited to HIS style? Is he being marginalised inasmuch as choosing what, and more importantly, WHO he needs to succeed? TD goes out and gets 13 goalkeepers and says to the manager, "Right OK. Make me a successful team". "Oh, and by the way, if you fail, You're sacked but don't worry. I'LL STILL BE HERE"!

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9 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Whit...............the same as you done when Oran was bringing a forward in January? :lol:

 

8 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Whit?

You spend the whole of yesterday criticising me for wanting proper evidence for stuff you posted which you had picked up from newspapers and conspiracy theory websites and now you are criticising LPM for doing the exact opposite!

Unbelievable :lol:

 

Do keep up ya trumpet. :byebye

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11 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Gus MacPherson was a successful manager, Tony Fitzpatrick wasn't. We would probably end up signing Ricky Gillies for 1 million quid.

second time round Tony was actually quite a good manager  , he constantly had to sell his best players and managed to keep us up with a very young squad.

First time round Tony was a bit wasteful , not unlike we are being just now.

Edited by MenstrieSaint
spelling

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2 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Could somebody please explain HOW this is going to add continuity IF the manager is allowed to say what he needs and who is best suited to HIS style? Is he being marginalised inasmuch as choosing what, and more importantly, WHO he needs to succeed? TD goes out and gets 13 goalkeepers and says to the manager, "Right OK. Make me a successful team". "Oh, and by the way, if you fail, You're sacked but don't worry. I'LL STILL BE HERE"!

We're not pioneers for the concept of a Director of football. Hundreds of clubs accross Europe operate this way.

A managers job is to get the best out of the players they have. They aren't expected to be solely responsible for bringing in every single player to the club.

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1 hour ago, Kemp said:

Gordon Scott has already stated the role is being created to help avoid the utter shite transfer window we have just suffered.....which was a repeat of pretty much every other window that Jack Ross wasn't involved in. 

I can't believe the amount of posters here that don't see this as a priority for the club.

The role would surely be focused on  long-term planning in relation to squad building, budgets, and generating revenue from player sales.  As an example, young Ethan Erhanon is expected to break in to the team during the time that Kearney is in charge.  History would suggest Kearney will be away in the next two to three seasons and therefore Ethan will be sold during the start of the next managers time. A TD should be scouting now for players that could replace Ethan, get them in our academy if possible or just keep tabs on them so we have 9 or 10 targets in mind when he moves on.  A full time TD should provide us with an in-depth knowledge of all players we could realistically approach across the UK and Ireland and stop the panic signing of the likes of Allan Gow.  With that in mind, it is without a doubt worth trying!

I'm all for forward planning, but should we already be planning to replace someone who isn't even in the team yet?

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14 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Could somebody please explain HOW this is going to add continuity IF the manager is allowed to say what he needs and who is best suited to HIS style? Is he being marginalised inasmuch as choosing what, and more importantly, WHO he needs to succeed? TD goes out and gets 13 goalkeepers and says to the manager, "Right OK. Make me a successful team". "Oh, and by the way, if you fail, You're sacked but don't worry. I'LL STILL BE HERE"!

Somehow if the TD signs 13 goalkeepers at once I imagine GS would decide he's not fit for the role...

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15 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

We're not pioneers for the concept of a Director of football. Hundreds of clubs accross Europe operate this way.

A managers job is to get the best out of the players they have. They aren't expected to be solely responsible for bringing in every single player to the club.

A manager in football terms relies wholly on the footballers on the park to play the way he envisages the game should be played. He needs to be involved wholly in the recruitment process.

If you accept this then, unless we, as a club, have continuity in the style of management, there will ALWAYS be a lack of cohesion between one appointment  and the next.

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