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Oaky’s reasons for turning Quisling :-)


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My reason for turning Quisling is as follows. Brace yourself.

Whilst I don't trust any politician, it's an understanding of what will be required of the population to really make independence work which concerns me.

It will require a lot of positivity, ambition, team work, personal responsibility and an attitude of "f**k it let's do this" from a substantial part of the population. We need an entrepeneurial citizenship. These are right wing characteristics.

Does that sound remotely like Scottish people to you?

We still have vast swathes of the country still bleating on about Thatcher, almost 30 years after she left power. That is embarassing. We are renowned across the world for having a chip on our shoulders over everything.

Now we can discuss whether independence will cure the nation of it's Scottish Disease or whether we need to cure that first before seeking independence. I reckon it's the latter. I want to see some evidence that we are properly geared up to make this work first.  Right now, I can't shake the belief that too many people want this in order to achieve some mythical socialist utopia and that at the first sign of difficulty they will turn into a vast army of LPM types carping endlessly about how shite things are whilst contributing the square root of f**k all to the common cause.

In short, I don't trust our population to make independence work at this moment in time. I am certain that we would be looking at 40 to 50 years of serious problems until we became right wing enough to do what needed to be done.

 

Edited by oaksoft
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40 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

Agree to an extent but the country is nowhere near as left wing as people think. This is a common misconception as people tend to underestimate the silent majority. Hence why we didn't actually vote for independence. 

The truth is that more people vote for left wing or centrist parties than right wing parties but you are correct that we are not as left wing as most think.

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5 hours ago, LargsBud said:

Agree to an extent but the country is nowhere near as left wing as people think. This is a common misconception as people tend to underestimate the silent majority. Hence why we didn't actually vote for independence. 

I agree with that second part as well.

It was a massive shock to find that the massive queues to register and vote were down to people rushing to save the union. Silent majority as you say.

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The truth is that more people vote for left wing or centrist parties than right wing parties but you are correct that we are not as left wing as most think.


If you were to classify the SNP as a centrist party then you could say that more people vote for right wing or centrist parties than left wing parties though.

It was the SNP’s right wing policies like the Council Tax freeze, no tuition fees, no bridge tolls, no prescription charges, etc, which effectively redistribute wealth from the poor to the middle class, that won the SNP the trust of a large part of the silent majority.

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Yeah sad to say the extent of NSs radicalism is to be 1% less austere than the Conservatives.

 

Even sadder to think that after the Govt. was so complacent it lost the EU Referendum (membership of the EU being a central argument against Independence two years previously), their leader, their parliamentary majority (going back to the 17th Century to form an alliance with the DUP) and finally in the Brexit negotiations essentially any semblance of competence coupled with an opposition that comprises an equally divided Labour Party and the Lib-Dems who have yet to be forgiven for selling out their principles, support for Independence seems stalled at 45%. 

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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Yeah sad to say the extent of NSs radicalism is to be 1% less austere than the Conservatives.

 

Even sadder to think that after the Govt. was so complacent it lost the EU Referendum (membership of the EU being a central argument against Independence two years previously), their leader, their parliamentary majority (going back to the 17th Century to form an alliance with the DUP) and finally in the Brexit negotiations essentially any semblance of competence coupled with an opposition that comprises an equally divided Labour Party and the Lib-Dems who have yet to be forgiven for selling out their principles, support for Independence seems stalled at 45%. 

Was support for independence not up past 50% last month?

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Just now, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Indeed Cameron created Berxit taking us out of Europe which will end up Scotland leaving the UK. 

This has certainly created a Constitutional Crisis. Interesting and more than a little Ironic that the European Court will rule on a judgement on whether or not the UK Government requires the permission of the Scottish Government to take Scotland out of the European Union. Oh that the Northern Ireland Assembly had been up and running in this period too, rather than being run by UK Civil Servants. 

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1 minute ago, St.Ricky said:

This has certainly created a Constitutional Crisis. Interesting and more than a little Ironic that the European Court will rule on a judgement on whether or not the UK Government requires the permission of the Scottish Government to take Scotland out of the European Union. Oh that the Northern Ireland Assembly had been up and running in this period too, rather than being run by UK Civil Servants. 

It's an interesting move. 

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19 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

One of those polls which suggested Yes might win a 2nd referendum which strangely never got much media coverage when there was Alex Salmond to talk about instead

The law is all wrong the media should not be aloud to drag peoples reputations through the mud until proven guilty.  The guy accused of the common green murder was hounded for years it runid his life and there are simlour case's. 

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11 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Whilst I don't trust any politician, it's an understanding of what will be required of the population to really make independence work which concerns me.

It will require a lot of positivity, ambition, team work, personal responsibility and an attitude of "f**k it let's do this" from a substantial part of the population. We need an entrepeneurial citizenship. These are right wing characteristics.Does that sound remotely like Scottish people to you?We still have vast swathes of the country still bleating on about Thatcher, almost 30 years after she left power. That is embarassing. We are renowned across the world for having a chip on our shoulders over everything.

Now we can discuss whether independence will cure the nation of it's Scottish Disease or whether we need to cure that first before seeking independence. I reckon it's the latter. I want to see some evidence that we are properly geared up to make this work first.  Right now, I can't shake the belief that too many people want this in order to achieve some mythical socialist utopia and that at the first sign of difficulty they will turn into a vast army of LPM types carping endlessly about how shite things are whilst contributing the square root of f**k all to the common cause.

In short, I don't trust our population to make independence work at this moment in time. I am certain that we would be looking at 40 to 50 years of serious problems until we became right wing enough to do what needed to be done.

 

The First Question is Could we be a Successful Independent Nation?

I think yes but with certain caveats attached. 

Some of what Oaksoft writes chimes with my own views on a dependency/entitlement culture but I try not to think of in terms of right or left as this ties us in to thinking of the past and the Thatcher v Socialism argument rather than looking for pragmatic solutions. I prefer the Scandinavian approaches of higher productivity, higher taxes and higher standards of education, care and support. Attitudes and laws relating to business and personal risk need to change. Greater access to risk capital / soft loans and changes to bankruptcy laws will be needed to fuel a change to a truly entrepreneurial society.

The Second Question is Should we be an Independent Nation?

I spent some time researching the Globalisation v Localisation issue some 20 years ago at a Business School. People throughout the world have increasingly sought a greater say in their future . I prefer a model which gives more decision making power to local people than centralised governments of any political hue.  I do prefer the Scandanavian approaches to building a country where people are much more involved in decision making and therefore take on board more responsibility.  

Where do I stand?

In 1979 I was very much for Independence. Conditions were right and we could see a pathway to the Norwegian Model where a substantial oil fund would be built. What did we get - a last minute change put forward by a Scots MP from an English Constitunency which introduced an ammendment which in the event "Saved" the Union.

We then were "granted" Devolution. The settlement involved agreeing to move the sea border substantially north of the land border and in the process ensure that oil revenues from this area went direct to the treasury and therefore weaken any future case for independence. 

So - Do I trust Politicians ? No.

But - I am now an Undecided given our current conditions.

Scotland inside Europe - A Yes.

 

 

Edited by St.Ricky
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11 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

It will require a lot of positivity, ambition, team work, personal responsibility and an attitude of "f**k it let's do this" from a substantial part of the population. We need an entrepeneurial citizenship. These are right wing characteristics.

Does that sound remotely like Scottish people to you?

 

 

Yes, although admittedly not the w*nkbags in academia

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14 minutes ago, insaintee said:

Yes, although admittedly not the w*nkbags in academia

I'm not normally an apologist for academia but to be fair to the Scottish Government they have commissioned some good work which has yet to bear fruit. This includes work on Collaboration and work on New Types of Engagement and Stakeholder Management.  The weakness is in taking these into Implementation so they can either on the vine.  I was peripherally involved in discussions which have resulted in the project to fast track bringing unused land back into use which was spearheaded by SEPA.  Things are happening.

Edited by St.Ricky
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12 hours ago, oaksoft said:

My reason for turning Quisling is as follows. Brace yourself.

Whilst I don't trust any politician, it's an understanding of what will be required of the population to really make independence work which concerns me.

It will require a lot of positivity, ambition, team work, personal responsibility and an attitude of "f**k it let's do this" from a substantial part of the population. We need an entrepeneurial citizenship. These are right wing characteristics.

Does that sound remotely like Scottish people to you?

We still have vast swathes of the country still bleating on about Thatcher, almost 30 years after she left power. That is embarassing. We are renowned across the world for having a chip on our shoulders over everything.

Now we can discuss whether independence will cure the nation of it's Scottish Disease or whether we need to cure that first before seeking independence. I reckon it's the latter. I want to see some evidence that we are properly geared up to make this work first.  Right now, I can't shake the belief that too many people want this in order to achieve some mythical socialist utopia and that at the first sign of difficulty they will turn into a vast army of LPM types carping endlessly about how shite things are whilst contributing the square root of f**k all to the common cause.

In short, I don't trust our population to make independence work at this moment in time. I am certain that we would be looking at 40 to 50 years of serious problems until we became right wing enough to do what needed to be done.

 

Ah, I see, because looking round this country at the moment, being right wing works does it? Massive levels of homelessness, NHS underfunded, everything set up for those wanting to make a fast buck and not to meet need, and you want more of that? Jeezo.

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34 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Ah, I see, because looking round this country at the moment, being right wing works does it? Massive levels of homelessness(not true), NHS underfunded (true), everything set up for those wanting to make a fast buck and not to meet need(nonsensical statement), and you want more of that? Jeezo.

1/3. These things are nothing to do with "right wing". The NHS issue is poor management and distribution of funds.

Edited by LargsBud
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2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

I'm not normally an apologist for academia but to be fair to the Scottish Government they have commissioned some good work which has yet to bear fruit. This includes work on Collaboration and work on New Types of Engagement and Stakeholder Management.  The weakness is in taking these into Implementation so they can either on the vine.  I was peripherally involved in discussions which have resulted in the project to fast track bringing unused land back into use which was spearheaded by SEPA.  Things are happening.

Academia is a microcosm of Scottish society. That culture would need to change as well. A better functioning academic research sector could also play an important role in driving technical innovation in partnership with industry. There have been some efforts to do this but it's not good enough. For example, if I wanted to discuss providing funding from my company to a university for them to provide some  cross disciplinary research, it's not obvious who to contact in the first place. I believe I would have to start contacting individual researchers and build that team myself.

Edited by oaksoft
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