Revenue Earning Investment by St Mirren

[HSS]

5 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Get the paisley tigers back, might bring back 80s success 

It was the Paisley Lions......Glasgow and Coatbridge had the Tigers.

Good idea about bringing it back...... tho we may have to limit it to 2 bikes per race.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Just spotted this after my last post.

This is clearly your area of expertise. How big would the pot be likely to be in year 20? You'll save me a bit of time tomorrow if you already have the formula.

No what I meant was that a 20 year investment in let’s say a mainstream equity portfolio would not have a club like St. Mirren competing with the best in the country.

In terms of the types of Funds I lend to, an exceptional return would maybe be a 3x equity multiple over maybe a 10 year cycle.  So obviously 300% (obvs 30% pa)  is a big number but these are institutional investments with massively risky strategies.  Don’t get me wrong, back the right fund manager with a good track record and it should be fairly safe, but you can’t rock up with £50k and say I’ll have a bit of that. 

I guess what I’m trying to say is that this sort of investment generally is probably not suitable for a football club!

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Don't be too quick to slam dunk me that you casually dismissive this idea. 

If you stick £100k every year into a ring fenced account with 0% interest you would still have £2million in the bank after 20 years.

I would need to figure out how to calculate what would we have with a modest 5% return and compound interest taken into account but I would estimate it would be many times that amount. I will figure out a formula tomorrow and come back. You may have that formula though so let's hear it.

Does anyone have a better idea for how to raise anywhere near that sort of sum?

This idea is innovative and exactly the sort of thing the club should be considering IMO.

Also in my opinion I wouldn’t say 5% was a modest return in a mainstream, not cautious not aggressive scheme, I’d say it was possibly average or in some cases above average. 

[oaksoft]

6 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Also in my opinion I wouldn’t say 5% was a modest return in a mainstream, not cautious not aggressive scheme, I’d say it was possibly average or in some cases above average. 

That's a pretty close definition of the word modest 

[oaksoft]

6 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

No what I meant was that a 20 year investment in let’s say a mainstream equity portfolio would not have a club like St. Mirren competing with the best in the country.

In terms of the types of Funds I lend to, an exceptional return would maybe be a 3x equity multiple over maybe a 10 year cycle.  So obviously 300% (obvs 30% pa)  is a big number but these are institutional investments with massively risky strategies.  Don’t get me wrong, back the right fund manager with a good track record and it should be fairly safe, but you can’t rock up with £50k and say I’ll have a bit of that. 

I guess what I’m trying to say is that this sort of investment generally is probably not suitable for a football club!

I must be missing something here. How does 30% p.a. return over 10 years give you a 3x equity multiple over 10 years when you include compound interest?

Ignoring the annual topup of a further £100k, I am working from the formula A = S(1+r)^n (A is the total amount in your account, S is the initial investment, r is the annual interest rate as a fraction of 1 and n is the number of years saved and I am assuming a single interest payment per year).

If I put 100k (S) into one of those accounts and r is 0.3 (for 30%) for 10 (n) years and leave it there, then A becomes just short of £1.4 million. In fact I seem to recall a rule of thmb that 14% interest approximately doubles your investment every 5 years so 30% will be well in excess of that.

Have I missed something?

[ALBIONSAINT]

7 hours ago, HSS said:

It was the Paisley Lions......Glasgow and Coatbridge had the Tigers.

Good idea about bringing it back...... tho we may have to limit it to 2 bikes per race.

Long term investments, compound interest rates, boring. The fans would love both teams mascots race each other on bikes at half time. 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

7 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

No what I meant was that a 20 year investment in let’s say a mainstream equity portfolio would not have a club like St. Mirren competing with the best in the country.

In terms of the types of Funds I lend to, an exceptional return would maybe be a 3x equity multiple over maybe a 10 year cycle.  So obviously 300% (obvs 30% pa)  is a big number but these are institutional investments with massively risky strategies.  Don’t get me wrong, back the right fund manager with a good track record and it should be fairly safe, but you can’t rock up with £50k and say I’ll have a bit of that. 

I guess what I’m trying to say is that this sort of investment generally is probably not suitable for a football club!

Hope you are right I have been in one for the past five years it's went down more than it's went up. 

[Doakes]

Insist that any money we get for players is transferred to us in Bitcoin. 

Once the value skyrockets, cash out 

 

[TediousTom]

I know of a Nigerian prince who cannot spell particularly well. Anyway for some reason he cannot quite explain he is unable to get his substantial wealth out of the country but for some other reason that he also hasn't explained we can get that wealth if someone from this country send's him £1000.  Its over a ten million quid apparently and he will send us over a million of that!!!!!!

 

Unfortunately I think someone from Hamilton may have beaten us to it but I am sure GLS could always e-mail the chap and ask!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[Callum Gilhooley]

So the rest of the ideas are better than Oaky's then?

Mine is.

[Callum Gilhooley]

It was the Paisley Lions......Glasgow and Coatbridge had the Tigers.
Good idea about bringing it back...... tho we may have to limit it to 2 bikes per race.

I’ve always said we should bring back speedway and to spice it up a bit I’d have hurdles for them

[TediousTom]

Right I have another one.

 

We could sign James Braxton.  We could then buy him an old car, something from the 1950's.  We could then send him off round the country wearing an extravagant scarf in his old car with a wad of money.  James Braxton could then use his charm to buy utter shit for peanuts, you know like lamps form old railway carriages and snuff boxes that sort of rubbish.  But then......here is the clever bit......we send him to auction the shit off for much more than he paid for it thus making cash.

 

In fact we could employ a second person, preferably a female like Kate Bliss, yes Kate Bliss (the odd looking blonde one).  Anyway we send her off in the same old car as James Braxton and she and James Braxton compete every week to see who makes the most money.  The winner gets a free pie and a seat in the stand, the loser gets to work as a ball boy (or woman).  That little spark of competition will make them work harder whilst doubling our profits!!!!

 

 

[Callum Gilhooley]

Right I have another one.
 
We could sign James Braxton.  We could then buy him an old car, something from the 1950's.  We could then send him off round the country wearing an extravagant scarf in his old car with a wad of money.  James Braxton could then use his charm to buy utter shit for peanuts, you know like lamps form old railway carriages and snuff boxes that sort of rubbish.  But then......here is the clever bit......we send him to auction the shit off for much more than he paid for it thus making cash.
 
In fact we could employ a second person, preferably a female like Kate Bliss, yes Kate Bliss (the odd looking blonde one).  Anyway we send her off in the same old car as James Braxton and she and James Braxton compete every week to see who makes the most money.  The winner gets a free pie and a seat in the stand, the loser gets to work as a ball boy (or woman).  That little spark of competition will make them work harder whilst doubling our profits!!!!
 
 

Stupid idea. The whole thing is doomed to failure without Anita Manning .
You’re not taking this seriously

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

That's a pretty close definition of the word modest 

I read modest as “the least you could expect” or a “conservative estimate”.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I must be missing something here. How does 30% p.a. return over 10 years give you a 3x equity multiple over 10 years when you include compound interest?

Ignoring the annual topup of a further £100k, I am working from the formula A = S(1+r)^n (A is the total amount in your account, S is the initial investment, r is the annual interest rate as a fraction of 1 and n is the number of years saved and I am assuming a single interest payment per year).

If I put 100k (S) into one of those accounts and r is 0.3 (for 30%) for 10 (n) years and leave it there, then A becomes just short of £1.4 million. In fact I seem to recall a rule of thmb that 14% interest approximately doubles your investment every 5 years so 30% will be well in excess of that.

Have I missed something?

No mate. The types of funds I deal with have two main measures of performance. Equity Multiple and IRR (internal rate of return). Equity multiple is just a straight calculation of “how much did I put in versus how much did I get back”, regardless of timescale. So in other words in the example I gave, the investor would have invested say £1m and got £3m back. IRR is a much more complicated calculation which incorporates the period of time that the investors money has been tied up for. At the outset investors only make a commitment to the Fund Manager for a certain amount. No money changes hands at that point in time. The FM will only drawdown that capital from investors in tranches as and when he sources investments. Those assets are then worked and sold off with the proceeds being distributed back to investors there an then. The length of time it takes to flip an asset varies massively and that’s what drives IRR.

The type of investment I think you are talking about, more of a retail type investment plan based on a portfolio of equities,  wouldn’t pay “interest” as such as it would be more geared towards capital growth than income. It would probably pay a modest dividend which the investor could choose to reinvest in the way you suggest. That say 5% growth that we were talking about though would mainly be capital growth and therefore wouldn’t be compounded. It would just simply be growth of your initial stake, and of course that 5% could just as easily be lost the following year, depending on the track record of the fund manager. The only portion that would be compounded would be the dividend portion and that would typically be a lot less than 5%. If equities oaid a dividend of 5% we’d all be investing in them. 

[Ayrshire Saints]

13 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Keeping it realistic 500K but you can raise further funding. 

Invest 500k in players, get a winning team on the park and the bums on seats increase along with the match day turnover and merchandise. We are a football team and what fans of any team want to see is a winning team on the park.  500k into some non football scheme, a plastic pitch or spend it on getting a team on the park more folk would pay to see. Simple business really.  

[Kemp]

I'd employ Gus MacPherson as technical director to look for young talent we could sell on for a fee.

[Kemp]

As Div pointed out on twitter, the dome seems to done! It is down any time there is a bit of wind and could well be costing a fortune to maintain (I believe there is only one company able to do significant repairs to it). Time to get a few covered pitches built instead and gym (and pool?) like we had back at Love Street. Possibly office space with it if there is the demand, although I am not sure there is.

If we are serious about catering for events we can't have people showing up and eating the muck that is served at hospitality. The deal with the University to do it on the cheap needs to be cancelled. While it is not exactly Heathrow, there must be some demand for a corporate event space 5 minutes drive from Glasgow Airport. 

 

[melmac]

4 hours ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

 

 

Stupid idea. The whole thing is doomed to failure without Anita Manning .
You’re not taking this seriously

 

Go for Chelsea Manning, that would generate some revenue.

[Kemp]

Probably a pipe dream but I would love to see St Mirren park and the land around it used around it developed as a sports hub for Renfrewshire. Some multipurpose halls for indoor sports, tennis, running track, modern pool, top quality gym etc all under the banner of St Mirren. Similarly, a St Mirren basketball team, athletics club, cycling club, rugby team etc with all members signed up and part of the "St Mirren club".

The area obviously isn't the best but something like that could revitalise it and its just off the motorway meaning easy access for a wide catchment area.

[HSS]

3 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Probably a pipe dream but I would love to see St Mirren park and the land around it used around it developed as a sports hub for Renfrewshire. Some multipurpose halls for indoor sports, tennis, running track, modern pool, top quality gym etc all under the banner of St Mirren. Similarly, a St Mirren basketball team, athletics club, cycling club, rugby team etc with all members signed up and part of the "St Mirren club".

The area obviously isn't the best but something like that could revitalise it and its just off the motorway meaning easy access for a wide catchment area.

Great idea........wonder why no one has thought of it before?

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/article/2260/15m-sports-village-could-be-game-changer-for-Ferguslie

[Kemp]

4 minutes ago, HSS said:

Great idea........wonder why no one has thought of it before?

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/article/2260/15m-sports-village-could-be-game-changer-for-Ferguslie

Is anything happening with that?

[Kemp]

Having looked it up it seems there is f**k all happening with it and no money invested by the council.

Anyone spoke to Gordon Scott about this? Surely a project like that would be right up his ally. Should be pushing relentlessly for funding on this and pushing for it to be under the management of St Mirren. 

[Wendy Saintss]

14 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Just spotted this after my last post.

This is clearly your area of expertise. How big would the pot be likely to be in year 20? You'll save me a bit of time tomorrow if you already have the formula.

£3,395,482

[Wendy Saintss]

13 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Quick calculation tells me that putting away 200k every year at a modest (for stocks investment) 5% interest would have us at £10 million gross after 20 years but this is not my area of expertise.

Investing £200k per year at 5% compound interest would give £6,943,850 after 20 years, assuming the £200k was paid in advance.

It would be a bit less if paid monthly equivalent (as I assumed in my previous post)