The Fecking Naany State

[saintnextlifetime]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Isn't it time for your evening pills?

I don't take drugs of any description and by the soounds you would do well to do the same.  .

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

Love it. Isn't predictive text just wonderful.  Thanks for pointing this one out. One of my best, if I might be permitted to say so Lucy.

Don't mention it Pricky.

[faraway saint]

8 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Don't mention it Pricky.

You couldnae make it up. 

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

Love it. Isn't predictive text just wonderful.  Thanks for pointing this one out. One of my best, if I might be permitted to say so Lucy.

I was waiting patiently for more details of those "optical conditions" you were talking about. 

[St.Ricky]

25 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I was waiting patiently for more details of those "optical conditions" you were talking about. 

I would have loved to provide them.  The intended nonsense is bad enough but perhaps if I optimised my keyboard skills or even gave a final check to the unintended gibberish it might help. Meanwhile, the best I can do is that I do currently rent a place to Specsavers. I could do with visiting them! That and my regular check ups with my hospital eye consultant are my only "optical conditions".

[bazil85]

On 10/3/2018 at 12:28 PM, DougJamie said:

Why would people not vote for them by actually giving sound advice and trying to stop obesity and heartattacks.

Whats a bigger issue than people dying ?

And who exactly are they going to lose power to ? The Fat Tories ? They already have in case you hadnt noticed

 

Another fecking stupid thread- go find a country where you can do what you like. Mind you , you might need a zillion in the bank or an army behind u....

 

Because all people won't see it that way. It's an idealistic view to thing a large number of people that like junk food (some in moderation) and don't like being told how to live their life will all happily vote away with the view 'Well they know what's best' 

This is not an issue on people dying, it's an issue on punishing the many for the actions of the few and that's the way some people will see it, whether you think they're wrong or not. Your view is irrelevant for other people using their vote.  

The voting in the last GE shows they have lost popularity. Whether you, me or anyone else thinks their aims are ultimately good, as this thread has shown, not everyone will think that way That's just life. 

This country, we can vote out unpopular parties, agreed we don't have the best opposition but SNP are really screwing up what was a peak popularity for them. 

[bazil85]

On 10/3/2018 at 12:47 PM, Ayrshire Saints said:

And rightly so - every bit as dangerous and draining to the NHS.

Doesn't have the same impact on people in the surrounding area, doesn't have the same health issues to people around smokers so no it's not every bit as dangerous. Eating sugar and treating yourself in moderation is not 'dangerous' the health impacts of smoking, even occasionally are much higher than occasionally treating yourself to a mars bar or a takeaway. 

As I said before, it's punishing the many for the acts of the few and even if people don't agree with that, it'll be the way a lot of people see it and will lose them votes. 

[bazil85]

On 10/3/2018 at 4:57 PM, St.Ricky said:

I'm not in favour of a Nanny State but if Government Policy can lead people towards a healthier lifestyle then, that I would applaud. 

Healthier... Means longer and more active lives.  Healthier.. Means less strain on the NHS and social services.  

Surely this makes sense? 

Yep, agree with all of that 100% 

Banning and taxing healthier food and deals like this isn't the way IMO. Educating the masses and tackling obesity is. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Because all people won't see it that way. It's an idealistic view to thing a large number of people that like junk food (some in moderation) and don't like being told how to live their life will all happily vote away with the view 'Well they know what's best' 
This is not an issue on people dying, it's an issue on punishing the many for the actions of the few and that's the way some people will see it, whether you think they're wrong or not. Your view is irrelevant for other people using their vote.  
The voting in the last GE shows they have lost popularity. Whether you, me or anyone else thinks their aims are ultimately good, as this thread has shown, not everyone will think that way That's just life. 
This country, we can vote out unpopular parties, agreed we don't have the best opposition but SNP are really screwing up what was a peak popularity for them. 

The SNP lost seats in the last general election, however I'm not sure they lost popularity.
Their vote share was roughly the same, actually rose in some seats, however tactical voting cost them some seats.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Yep, agree with all of that 100% 
Banning and taxing healthier food and deals like this isn't the way IMO. Educating the masses and tackling obesity is. 

Education doesn't matter if you are on a tight budget and can get unhealthy prepared meals for half or a third of the cost making the meal from scratch.

Fruit and veg in our supermarkets is very expensive in comparison to 'junk food'.

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

The SNP lost seats in the last general election, however I'm not sure they lost popularity.
Their vote share was roughly the same, actually rose in some seats, however tactical voting cost them some seats.

They lost over 13% of their vote share in two years, that's massive. I'm not saying it's all just down to this but it's clear to see from social media this is unpopular. Unpopularity = lost votes. Like I say, it doesn't matter who thinks it's right or wrong/ good or bad to do this. It's still be seen as babysitter stuff, tellingg people how to live their life. 

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said:

Education doesn't matter if you are on a tight budget and can get unhealthy prepared meals for half or a third of the cost making the meal from scratch.

Fruit and veg in our supermarkets is very expensive in comparison to 'junk food'.
 

There is no evidence that making these meals more expensive will mean people buy healthier Healthier food isn't being reduced at the same rate as they want to put junk food up. Again these points all aren't relevant and I'm not saying I agree/ disagree on pricing of certain foods. I'm saying the interpretation by groups of people will be this is nanny state. Whether other groups think they're justified in thinking that, is irrelevant. It'll still cause them to lose votes. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

They lost over 13% of their vote share in two years, that's massive. I'm not saying it's all just down to this but it's clear to see from social media this is unpopular. Unpopularity = lost votes. Like I say, it doesn't matter who thinks it's right or wrong/ good or bad to do this. It's still be seen as babysitter stuff, tellingg people how to live their life. 

They lost 13% of their vote from one general election to the next?

[bazil85]

Just now, TPAFKATS said:

4 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

They lost over 13% of their vote share in two years, that's massive. I'm not saying it's all just down to this but it's clear to see from social media this is unpopular. Unpopularity = lost votes. Like I say, it doesn't matter who thinks it's right or wrong/ good or bad to do this. It's still be seen as babysitter stuff, tellingg people how to live their life. 

They lost 13% of their vote from one general election to the next?

As far as I can tell from the data. Worrying part is it was the Conservatives that seemed to pick up majority. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election/2017/results/scotland

[St.Ricky]

15 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

As far as I can tell from the data. Worrying part is it was the Conservatives that seemed to pick up majority. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election/2017/results/scotland

I think that has already been described on here as "tactical voting " mainly around the "no second referendum" issue as the Labour Party were vascilating on the issue. 

[DougJamie]

29 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Because all people won't see it that way. It's an idealistic view to thing a large number of people that like junk food (some in moderation) and don't like being told how to live their life will all happily vote away with the view 'Well they know what's best' 

This is not an issue on people dying, it's an issue on punishing the many for the actions of the few and that's the way some people will see it, whether you think they're wrong or not. Your view is irrelevant for other people using their vote.  

The voting in the last GE shows they have lost popularity. Whether you, me or anyone else thinks their aims are ultimately good, as this thread has shown, not everyone will think that way That's just life. 

This country, we can vote out unpopular parties, agreed we don't have the best opposition but SNP are really screwing up what was a peak popularity for them. 

That post is so wrong in so many ways, and kind of sums up what problem is in society in general. Small minded , self interest and self serving

This is an issue of people dying, obesity can lay claim to 13 different types of cancer, and its not the few, its a massive problem , not just with over 30s but namely under 18s. So what do you suggest, we just ignore it and it will go away ? In turn it puts massive unnecessary strain on the NHS and social services, in something that with more support and information can be avoided.

What the hell does this have to do with SNPs?

Basically, what you are saying or trying to say is that SNPs/ Scottish Gov are screwing Scotland  up, by trying to slow down obesity, tackling other health issues , ?

As a country mate we cant vote out unpopular parties unless your referring to the SNPs. The Tories brought in Council Tax , yet remained in power for 17 years ?  That wasn’t trying to save lives or quality of lives was it ?

So why dont you find a party, that is happy to put stress on Public Services, not give a shit about anyone , make sure vast US Franchises make lots of money , and not invest in the NHS...

Or even better just ignore because its not your problem.  Its actually all our problem so open your eyes

 

 

 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

As far as I can tell from the data. Worrying part is it was the Conservatives that seemed to pick up majority. 
https://www.bbc.com/news/election/2017/results/scotland

I think that has already been described on here as "tactical voting " mainly around the "no second referendum" issue as the Labour Party were vascilating on the issue. 

There was also a lower turn out for the 2017 GE which would need to be taken into account alongside the afore-mentioned tactical voting by those who wished to beat snp in certain seats. I recall kezia dug Dale being involved in a bit of a stramash following some quite along the lines of 'vote for who has best chance of beating snp'
There was analysis in the days and weeks following the vote which went into a lot more detail. For example, showing how voters not turning out affected % share.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

[bazil85]

21 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

I think that has already been described on here as "tactical voting " mainly around the "no second referendum" issue as the Labour Party were vascilating on the issue. 

Tactical voting would surely be between the union parties and not actual lost votes from the SNP? Either way 13% drop in votes and social media backlash from unpopular mandates, I'd be very surprised if there was zero correlation. 

[bazil85]

19 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

That post is so wrong in so many ways, and kind of sums up what problem is in society in general. Small minded , self interest and self serving

This is an issue of people dying, obesity can lay claim to 13 different types of cancer, and its not the few, its a massive problem , not just with over 30s but namely under 18s. So what do you suggest, we just ignore it and it will go away ? In turn it puts massive unnecessary strain on the NHS and social services, in something that with more support and information can be avoided.

What the hell does this have to do with SNPs?

Basically, what you are saying or trying to say is that SNPs/ Scottish Gov are screwing Scotland  up, by trying to slow down obesity, tackling other health issues , ?

As a country mate we cant vote out unpopular parties unless your referring to the SNPs. The Tories brought in Council Tax , yet remained in power for 17 years ?  That wasn’t trying to save lives or quality of lives was it ?

So why dont you find a party, that is happy to put stress on Public Services, not give a shit about anyone , make sure vast US Franchises make lots of money , and not invest in the NHS...

Or even better just ignore because its not your problem.  Its actually all our problem so open your eyes

 

 

 

The post is not wrong, it's pointing out that is the views of society whether you (or indeed I) like it or not. I'm not saying it's the right viewpoint, I'm simply saying it is the viewpoint and you not liking it won't change it. 

I'm not 'suggesting' anything, if you read my post properly you would see I was simply pointing out the facts, not making an opinion on if they are right or wrong. Obesity is a big problem (pardon the pun) and needs tackled. If you genuinely think tackling this is by telling people how to live their life and taking things of them then that's madness. Not because it wouldn't help tackle the problem but because many won't feckin like it and will vote accordingly! 

As I said, we tackle it with education and incentives for better eating, not by saying 'we know best, we're going to take all this off you because it's bad for you' That is punishing the many for the acts of the few. Not a majority of people are obese so I don't see how you can deny that. 

The SNP are pushing a number of unpopular mandates and as can be seen are getting backlash for it. Again I am not saying rightly or wrongly, it is simply fact that some people will associate this to the SNP and use it as a means not to vote for them. 

You again continue to go on as if I'm defending this viewpoint as my own. Yet again I am simply pointing out this is the wrong way to tackle it because some groups will see it as wrong and it will impact voting. As for Council tax being unpopular, what about the Poll tax? They shifted pretty quickly after that. 

Your last two paragraphs further confirm you haven't understood at all what I've said. 

[St.Ricky]

6 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Tactical voting would surely be between the union parties and not actual lost votes from the SNP? Either way 13% drop in votes and social media backlash from unpopular mandates, I'd be very surprised if there was zero correlation. 

Talk at the time was about how to "hurt" the SNP through Tactical Voting.

The Conservative and Unionist Party went strongly for disgruntled Labour No Voters, representing themselves as The UNIONIST party.

This  did two things. It increased the Tory Vote and gave them opportunities to bypass both the SNP and Labour in constituencies with narrow majorities,

It was a highly effective strategy.  Its not the whole story though, I agree.

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Talk at the time was about how to "hurt" the SNP through Tactical Voting.

The Conservative and Unionist Party went strongly for disgruntled Labour No Voters, representing themselves as The UNIONIST party.

This  did two things. It increased the Tory Vote and gave them opportunities to bypass both the SNP and Labour in constituencies with narrow majorities,

It was a highly effective strategy.  Its not the whole story though, I agree.

Yeah I agree with that, my point is more where did this 13% of people that did vote SNP in 2015 and didn't in 2017 go? There will be correlation between that and some of these ridiculous policies they have or want to introduce. 

Crazy way to try and tackle the problem by pushing unpopular ideas that could contribute to you losing a majority or indeed power. If it was me, I would be concentrating much more on education, incentives for better eating and on the people with obesity problems getting healthy. I think that would work better than telling (along with people with a problem) healthy people that every now and then like to treat themselves and enjoy junk food in moderation, they'll be lighter in the pocket going forward because we can't be bothered to actually tackle the issue.  

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The post is not wrong, it's pointing out that is the views of society whether you (or indeed I) like it or not. I'm not saying it's the right viewpoint, I'm simply saying it is the viewpoint and you not liking it won't change it. 
I'm not 'suggesting' anything, if you read my post properly you would see I was simply pointing out the facts, not making an opinion on if they are right or wrong. Obesity is a big problem (pardon the pun) and needs tackled. If you genuinely think tackling this is by telling people how to live their life and taking things of them then that's madness. Not because it wouldn't help tackle the problem but because many won't feckin like it and will vote accordingly! 
As I said, we tackle it with education and incentives for better eating, not by saying 'we know best, we're going to take all this off you because it's bad for you' That is punishing the many for the acts of the few. Not a majority of people are obese so I don't see how you can deny that. 
The SNP are pushing a number of unpopular mandates and as can be seen are getting backlash for it. Again I am not saying rightly or wrongly, it is simply fact that some people will associate this to the SNP and use it as a means not to vote for them. 
You again continue to go on as if I'm defending this viewpoint as my own. Yet again I am simply pointing out this is the wrong way to tackle it because some groups will see it as wrong and it will impact voting. As for Council tax being unpopular, what about the Poll tax? They shifted pretty quickly after that. 
Your last two paragraphs further confirm you haven't understood at all what I've said. 

I wouldn't necessarily say your post is fact, more that's it your opinion albeit not necessarily a viewpoint that you support.
Interesting point re banni g things cos they are bad and not everyone being obese despite eating junk food.
The same can be said for drug use and alcohol consumption however one is illegal and the other subject to minimum pricing which all evidence seems to suggest is a positive thing.

However I suspect taking our 'free' prawn crackers could be the straw that breaks the camels back [emoji3]

[DougJamie]

3 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

The post is not wrong, it's pointing out that is the views of society whether you (or indeed I) like it or not. I'm not saying it's the right viewpoint, I'm simply saying it is the viewpoint and you not liking it won't change it. 

I'm not 'suggesting' anything, if you read my post properly you would see I was simply pointing out the facts, not making an opinion on if they are right or wrong. Obesity is a big problem (pardon the pun) and needs tackled. If you genuinely think tackling this is by telling people how to live their life and taking things of them then that's madness. Not because it wouldn't help tackle the problem but because many won't feckin like it and will vote accordingly! 

As I said, we tackle it with education and incentives for better eating, not by saying 'we know best, we're going to take all this off you because it's bad for you' That is punishing the many for the acts of the few. Not a majority of people are obese so I don't see how you can deny that. 

The SNP are pushing a number of unpopular mandates and as can be seen are getting backlash for it. Again I am not saying rightly or wrongly, it is simply fact that some people will associate this to the SNP and use it as a means not to vote for them. 

You again continue to go on as if I'm defending this viewpoint as my own. Yet again I am simply pointing out this is the wrong way to tackle it because some groups will see it as wrong and it will impact voting. As for Council tax being unpopular, what about the Poll tax? They shifted pretty quickly after that. 

Your last two paragraphs further confirm you haven't understood at all what I've said. 

Baz I can read......................

The Council Tax is the Poll tax................ It was introduced in 1989. The Tories lost power in 1997 ....

However one thing I do agree with is, the SNP are pushing mandates, and as far as I can see none of them are bad for Scotland. With 63% of the popular vote, the SNPs wont lose power, well not the wee bit of power the 38% Tory Gov allow them to have .

 

You said "This is not an issue on people dying, it's an issue on punishing the many for the actions of the few and that's the way some people will see it, whether you think they're wrong or not. "

Thats what I take issue with, and bud anyone who thinks this, are not socialists, just self serving. Just wait till they need emergency surgery and the hospitals are over run with over eating ailments.

As for Scots, the only bit of truth in Braveheart was that the Scots cant agree on the colour of shite.................... so maybe our Goverment should eh Govern ?

 

[saintnextlifetime]

1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

Education doesn't matter if you are on a tight budget and can get unhealthy prepared meals for half or a third of the cost making the meal from scratch.

Fruit and veg in our supermarkets is very expensive in comparison to 'junk food'.
 

I don't know that I would agree with that 100% , Tony. I think there is the convenience of junk food as it is far easier to stick a pie in the oven than prepare a meal from scratch . Certainly , places like McD*nalds are fairly cheap but it is arguable whether that stuff is even food. Traditionally , Scots don't eat a lot of fruit and veg and possibly people aren't aware of recipes for healthy eating and it is definitely less time consuming to stick a ready meal (that might be full of chemicals) in a microwave than work out what you are going to make , make it and then cook it in a conventional oven .

[bazil85]

Just now, TPAFKATS said:

I wouldn't necessarily say your post is fact, more that's it your opinion albeit not necessarily a viewpoint that you support.
Interesting point re banni g things cos they are bad and not everyone being obese despite eating junk food.
The same can be said for drug use and alcohol consumption however one is illegal and the other subject to minimum pricing which all evidence seems to suggest is a positive thing.

However I suspect taking our 'free' prawn crackers could be the straw that breaks the camels back

My opinion is people will find this approach unpopular and unpopularity contributes to a loss in votes for a party. I take that opinion because of many threads like this and conversations on social media. Maybe you disagree in the correlation between both, that's up to you 

I'm not sure what evidence you're using for minimum pricing on alcohol being all positive. I certainly don't think it is and I specifically know people that won't vote SNP again because of that stupid law. It's another point on nanny state laws and one again that punishes the many (and only Scottish) because of the few. Regarding drugs, that's very generic. Although there is an argument for legalising drugs, I'm not opening up that can of worms. 

I think you are kind of getting that I'm making general points now but the last point on it just being about prawn crackers makes me doubt that