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Looks like the same old story saints get promoted & always in the same position fighting at the bottom. Over the years the teams that get promoted do well apart from us, look at Livingston, is it the st mirren curse or are we just not got what it takes? The latter probably. Looks like we are relegation fodder. [emoji30]

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45 minutes ago, ged62 said:

 

Looks like the same old story saints get promoted & always in the same position fighting at the bottom. Over the years the teams that get promoted do well apart from us, look at Livingston, is it the st mirren curse or are we just not got what it takes? The latter probably. Looks like we are relegation fodder. emoji30.png

 

It's tough to step up and stay there.  Make it through a season in the top league and there is an opportunity to consolidate.  Do we have what it takes?  That's down to the collective will of the board,  manager and fans.  No point in reiterating the problems we faced over the summer but it was far from ideal preparation and has led directly to where we are  now.  But... There are positives.  Record season ticket sales,  money in from the John McGinn transfer and larger away crowds plus prize and TV money means that we can compete either least the bottom 4 clubs in the Premiership on wages.  Recent signings have been promising and the new manager is more in tune with the support but he needs time to build a squad and dressing room which will compete successfully.  My view is to be pragmatic.  These seem like tough times but this is the league we want to be in so there is no point in being defeatist.  Time for everybody to step up to the plate. 

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6 hours ago, ged62 said:

 

Looks like the same old story saints get promoted & always in the same position fighting at the bottom. Over the years the teams that get promoted do well apart from us, look at Livingston, is it the st mirren curse or are we just not got what it takes? The latter probably. Looks like we are relegation fodder. emoji30.png

 

There really is nothing worse in a time of difficulty than self pity and defeatism.

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It's tough to step up and stay there.  Make it through a season in the top league and there is an opportunity to consolidate.  Do we have what it takes?  That's down to the collective will of the board,  manager and fans.  No point in reiterating the problems we faced over the summer but it was far from ideal preparation and has led directly to where we are  now.  But... There are positives.  Record season ticket sales,  money in from the John McGinn transfer and larger away crowds plus prize and TV money means that we can compete either least the bottom 4 clubs in the Premiership on wages.  Recent signings have been promising and the new manager is more in tune with the support but he needs time to build a squad and dressing room which will compete successfully.  My view is to be pragmatic.  These seem like tough times but this is the league we want to be in so there is no point in being defeatist.  Time for everybody to step up to the plate. 

It just seems to me Ricky that in the summer we were not ambitious enough or the plans were flawed, don’t get me wrong the McGinn monies were not there as the transfer was very late. The Stubbs saga has really taken the wind out our sails, his dealings in the transfer market (endorsed by the board I would add) were very poor.

Now we have OK who we should all back, we have a transfer window coming where we have to be brave and clear in our intentions if we really want to stay in this league, up until then we have to scrap and fight for every point!!

Us as supporters/ fans just have to back the team in any way we can!!
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Quelle Surprise....

much like the Tom Hendrie side who strolled their league to get promoted, so it seemed Jack Ross's side did last season. In reality we were champions a couple of months before the season ended, that success did mask an underlying decline in our performances and results as the season ended though!. We won just two of our last seven games, and one of those was a mighty 1-0 away to the team who never won a game all season.

so as we came into this season our poor run continues, and is more stark as we face better opponents every week. Hendrie's promoted team fared just as badly, so is history repeating itself? 

Much is made, discussed and stacked at Stubbs door as to why we are poor in most depts, the phrase that makes me laugh "he has destroyed the championship winning team" is a corker when you consider he actually never canned any of them!

Morgan was already sold, Davis already gone, he and Reilly went for better deals elsewhere, and the rest of them are still on the books. The hard fact is, (taking our drop off at the end of last season into account) we are just not good, strong or professional enough to compete in this league.

how many times last season were you left frustrated when Livi, Morton, Falkirk and even lowly Brechin outmuscled, outfought and frustrated our team by being 'professional' in their niggling, time wasting and general in your face attitude. Where in contrast we looked like a group of cub scouts.

the words i have heard Gary Holt repeat since his side done us over "we start the game already having a point.. dont lose it" still rings in my ears, but seemingly not our team's. We dont seem to be able to control any aspect of a game, not defence, midfield and not up front. 

Has losing Morgan, Davis and Reilly actually put us here? Not for my money folks, our collective, and individual performances no matter the manager are not 'Professional' we dont frustrate, annoy or piss off the opponents to break up their game, and allow us to play ours.

I think there are certain players who were stars last season, who simply dont get they have to fight their way into every game for the right to play, and until they get it, we will continue to get these performances and results.

is this squad lke Tom Hendrie's..? I would say yes! Too many of them are not performing at the required standard for this league. Oran seems to be giving most of last seasons squad their chance, whilst seeming to have decided which of the recent recruits are out. The trouble is none of them seem to be stepping up to the mark other than Ferdinand, maybe Jackson, hopefully Hammill soon.

the Killie game will really tell us if there's a chink of light shining through, or the same old same old. At home, after a break and chance to re-group we face a team that Stubb's team almost beat at their place. If we cant get near that outcome, and at least keep the point we start the game with then the die will be cast for the season i fear. Yes i know many pin their hopes on the January window so Oran can 'build his own team' but he's got one now that he willingly took, and I assume believes he can improve.

if we continue as is till January, what quality player will want to join the favourites for the drop? 

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13 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Quelle Surprise....

much like the Tom Hendrie side who strolled their league to get promoted, so it seemed Jack Ross's side did last season. In reality we were champions a couple of months before the season ended, that success did mask an underlying decline in our performances and results as the season ended though!. We won just two of our last seven games, and one of those was a mighty 1-0 away to the team who never won a game all season.

so as we came into this season our poor run continues, and is more stark as we face better opponents every week. Hendrie's promoted team fared just as badly, so is history repeating itself? 

Much is made, discussed and stacked at Stubbs door as to why we are poor in most depts, the phrase that makes me laugh "he has destroyed the championship winning team" is a corker when you consider he actually never canned any of them!

Morgan was already sold, Davis already gone, he and Reilly went for better deals elsewhere, and the rest of them are still on the books. The hard fact is, (taking our drop off at the end of last season into account) we are just not good, strong or professional enough to compete in this league.

how many times last season were you left frustrated when Livi, Morton, Falkirk and even lowly Brechin outmuscled, outfought and frustrated our team by being 'professional' in their niggling, time wasting and general in your face attitude. Where in contrast we looked like a group of cub scouts.

the words i have heard Gary Holt repeat since his side done us over "we start the game already having a point.. dont lose it" still rings in my ears, but seemingly not our team's. We dont seem to be able to control any aspect of a game, not defence, midfield and not up front. 

Has losing Morgan, Davis and Reilly actually put us here? Not for my money folks, our collective, and individual performances no matter the manager are not 'Professional' we dont frustrate, annoy or piss off the opponents to break up their game, and allow us to play ours.

I think there are certain players who were stars last season, who simply dont get they have to fight their way into every game for the right to play, and until they get it, we will continue to get these performances and results.

is this squad lke Tom Hendrie's..? I would say yes! Too many of them are not performing at the required standard for this league. Oran seems to be giving most of last seasons squad their chance, whilst seeming to have decided which of the recent recruits are out. The trouble is none of them seem to be stepping up to the mark other than Ferdinand, maybe Jackson, hopefully Hammill soon.

the Killie game will really tell us if there's a chink of light shining through, or the same old same old. At home, after a break and chance to re-group we face a team that Stubb's team almost beat at their place. If we cant get near that outcome, and at least keep the point we start the game with then the die will be cast for the season i fear. Yes i know many pin their hopes on the January window so Oran can 'build his own team' but he's got one now that he willingly took, and I assume believes he can improve.

if we continue as is till January, what quality player will want to join the favourites for the drop? 

For me, defeatist as it may be, I'm now looking solely at home fixtures for opportunities to pick up point as we at least look realtively competitive there. 

On the road, we are a busted flush at present. The difference is that under Stubbs, we were beaten from the first kick. Against Hamilton and Aberdeen both games were very even until the first goal but no matter, as the outcome is the same of the heads dropping and goals flying in as soon as we go behind. Doesn't matter that we're at least decent for first half hour of these games when we weren't previously. 

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The team at the moment are just like when Ross took over. We have players not up to it at this level. Oran is still trying to establish best formation and who he can trust to get a result. Livingston were better equiped because they had a side who were strong, full of running and well organised. Stubbs dropped the ball anc should take most of the blame. He did not go after the type of player we required. However I also think the players who won the league who are still on the payroll should look at themselves. How many times do we hear fans saying McGinn is not playing well etc. We need a leader in the side, someone to kick backsides that is also not there. I hope Oran can sort this mess out or it will be back to championship football. 

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13 hours ago, ged62 said:

 

Looks like the same old story saints get promoted & always in the same position fighting at the bottom. Over the years the teams that get promoted do well apart from us, look at Livingston, is it the st mirren curse or are we just not got what it takes? The latter probably. Looks like we are relegation fodder. emoji30.png

 

Remember when we won a national trophy and followed that up with our highest SPL/SPFL position ever?  Remember we had a long run in the top league?  Remember how we celebrated that by getting rid of our most successful manager for decades?   It wasn't that long ago

Apart from the penultimate point, I wish it was THAT same old story.

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This is exactly the same scenario as when Ross took over the problem is that the league we now find ourselves in is a higher quality. OK will come good, i'm sure of that and we have to persist with him, he'll build a good team, given time. I'm afraid fans will just need to try and be patient and positive.

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14 minutes ago, Ethan said:

The team at the moment are just like when Ross took over. We have players not up to it at this level. Oran is still trying to establish best formation and who he can trust to get a result. Livingston were better equiped because they had a side who were strong, full of running and well organised. Stubbs dropped the ball anc should take most of the blame. He did not go after the type of player we required. However I also think the players who won the league who are still on the payroll should look at themselves. How many times do we hear fans saying McGinn is not playing well etc. We need a leader in the side, someone to kick backsides that is also not there. I hope Oran can sort this mess out or it will be back to championship football. 

Agreed, the same guys are playing for Oran, like they played for Stubbs.

Livi have been a bit of a surprise in that as well as their fighters and frustraters, they can play at this level. And when you consider tbe dooing they gave us last year then maybe its not such a big surprise, they had a great finish to the season, and we tapered off. They've got most of the same players, just as we have. But they are competitive!

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1 minute ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

This is exactly the same scenario as when Ross took over the problem is that the league we now find ourselves in is a higher quality. OK will come good, i'm sure of that and we have to persist with him, he'll build a good team, given time. I'm afraid fans will just need to try and be patient and positive.

I dont think its the same as when Ross took over at all. When he came in Rae had got three draws out of six, the previous season he lifted us away from danger, and made us competitive. He is a bit of a cartoon character love to hate figure with our support, when in reality he was probably average as a manager with us. But. because he's ex-sevco, and rattles on about it our support have made him out to be some sort of demon.

When you consider Rae left Shankland, Hardie, and was playing Morgan then you get a better picture. We  Werent bereft of performances, but he did end up firing it route one, up the wings, when we needed midfielders to play it over the shoulders of Hardie and Shankland to their strengths.

Ross decided to shift ten, play it through the team, and picked up a couple of gems. He also damn near relegated us in the process. Ross made it worse, before he made it better. Oran I hope has noted that, and is trying to find a team and formations that work now, rather than hoping he can with new players. Just play god damn ugly, and draw every game until you can bring in the quality. Otherwise January may be a false dawn.

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Our problems started with Ross leaving , our appointment of a new manager and the direction the board allowed him to go in recruiting new players , we were always needing seven or eight new players to supplement the promotion squad , and we would have been better getting the best Championship players available at the end of last season , and building a hard working organised , physically strong team , and maybe adding a bit of quality when we got the backbone sorted .

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Pretty much agree with MenstrieSaint and posted similar stuff on a few occasions - but that's in the past now. Assuming we've seen the last activity until the January window then OK has two weeks before we play Kilmarnock to put out an organized team. I'd expect players will have to leave in January before more come in, IMO that was always one of JRs strengths (moving on unwanted players) and we'll see if OK is able to repeat this and emerge from the window with a competitive and happy squad.

 

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2 hours ago, MenstrieSaint said:

Our problems started with Ross leaving , our appointment of a new manager and the direction the board allowed him to go in recruiting new players , we were always needing seven or eight new players to supplement the promotion squad , and we would have been better getting the best Championship players available at the end of last season , and building a hard working organised , physically strong team , and maybe adding a bit of quality when we got the backbone sorted .

Our problems started before that with the squad of players assembled by JR in the Championship.

We were often second best even when picking up all three points - due mainly to JR's particular gift of getting players motivated and performing to their maximum potential most weeks.

The reality was that with a few exceptions the quality was just not there last season.

Even TF admitted last season that we were ahead of schedule in building for the future - and by that I assumed he meant that with the players assembled at that time he did not expect us to scoosh the Championship by 10 clear points.

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As bad as we are we still are in touch and next 4 games will show us if its stay or bust. Fakes Accies Well Us and Dundee...  the rest are literally in a different league. The reason we never push on is because every time we build foundations we rock them ourselves..... 

 

Edited by DougJamie
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11 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

As bad as we are we still are in touch and next 4 games will show us if its stay or bust. Fakes Accies Well Us and Dundee...  the rest are literally in a different league. The reason we never push on is because every time we build foundations we rock them ourselves..... 

 

Might want to add The Fakes too. Imagine the meltdown if we lost 6-0 at home?

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