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The Peoples Vote


St.Ricky

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Will the UK Parliament support a Brexit Deal or will we face either a General Election or People's Vote?  The new Welsh Nationalist Leader is in favour of a People's Vote and links with the SNP.  MLA members in Northern Ireland,  outside the Unionist Party say that they will not take part in a vote as MLA members but will support a People's Vote.  Reunification is even on the possible Agenda. Interesting times. 

Alternative Threads are Available.

Edited by St.Ricky
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14 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Will the UK Parliament support a Brexit Deal or will we face either a General Election or People's Vote?  The new Welsh Nationalist Leader is in favour of a People's Vote and links with the SNP.  MLA members in Northern Ireland,  outside the Unionist Party say that they will not take part in a vote as MLA members but will support a People's Vote.  Reunification is even on the possible Agenda. Interesting times. 

Alternative Threads are Avaikabke

Is that Greek ?

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Agree interesting times lay ahead which could lead to the break up of the UK all because Cameron wanted to please the Cambridge, Oxford boys. Can't see Parliament agreeing a majority vote on Berxit. This will lead to a general election and Scotland independence. The other side of the coin is a people's vote saving the Union. 

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10 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Agree interesting times lay ahead which could lead to the break up of the UK all because Cameron wanted to please the Cambridge, Oxford boys. Can't see Parliament agreeing a majority vote on Berxit. This will lead to a general election and Scotland independence. The other side of the coin is a people's vote saving the Union. 

One way or another we live in "interesting times ". 

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23 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Do the Welsh want it enough though? I sooner see a reunited Ireland before an independent Wales.

You might well be right there Cornwall.  The Irish question is a big one.  Perhaps,  should it happen as a result of the fallout of a People's Vote it would be very much an unintended consequence of the NI Unionist Party stance so far.  The Welsh still seem to be orientated towards the Labour Party and subsidies.  I may  be wrong there. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
The only positive from Brexit will be Scottish independence.


Parliamentary sovereignty, control over the borders of our own nation, democratic integrity, the ability to form trade deals on terms we agree upon, leaving the common fisheries and agriculture policies, ditching the EU procurement directive, not having to comply with Article 13 and similar copyright directives, the ability to implement our own form of indirect taxation, the saving on the EU membership fee.

But hey, I guess not having to wait at passport control in zante is a good trade off...!
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4 hours ago, Losing My Religion said:

But hey, I guess not having to wait at passport control in zante is a good trade off...!

 

With all due respect as a Belgian citizen, it's a lot more to me than whether I can get through in Zante. So far we only have a vague idea of what we require to remain here, with nothing set in stone as of yet. As someone who has lived in the UK most of my life, works here, pays tax and has two kids here, I don't see why I should be having to apply for "settled status" which includes a £65 fee because of a vote I was given no say in.

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8 hours ago, Losing My Religion said:

 


Parliamentary sovereignty, control over the borders of our own nation, democratic integrity, the ability to form trade deals on terms we agree upon, leaving the common fisheries and agriculture policies, ditching the EU procurement directive, not having to comply with Article 13 and similar copyright directives, the ability to implement our own form of indirect taxation, the saving on the EU membership fee.

But hey, I guess not having to wait at passport control in zante is a good trade off...!

 

Loss of access to billions of pounds of research funding, loss of access to EU research facilities, loss of access to cross border research collaborations, loss of access to shared EU security information, loss of access to EU wide crime databases, loss of access to free trade with the rest of the EU,  extremely high risk of loss of headquarters for a wide variety of businesses including banks and our financial centres, loss of access to tens of thousands of EU migrants prepared to harvest crops when our own people would rather be social media "influencers" (whatever the f**k that means).

Still, as long as we get to keep out Johnny Foreigner right?

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On 10/8/2018 at 8:06 PM, St.Ricky said:

Will the UK Parliament support a Brexit Deal or will we face either a General Election or People's Vote?  The new Welsh Nationalist Leader is in favour of a People's Vote and links with the SNP.  MLA members in Northern Ireland,  outside the Unionist Party say that they will not take part in a vote as MLA members but will support a People's Vote.  Reunification is even on the possible Agenda. Interesting times. 

Alternative Threads are Available.

There is more chance of Kashogghi riding into a press conference on Shergar than NI choosing a re-united Ireland. Of all the bollox spouted during the whole Brexit farce this has to be the most fanciful.

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On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 11:32 AM, Ayrshire Saints said:

There is more chance of Kashogghi riding into a press conference on Shergar than NI choosing a re-united Ireland. Of all the bollox spouted during the whole Brexit farce this has to be the most fanciful.

Demographics suggest otherwise.

'Catholic majority possible' in NI by 2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43823506

Obviously it's not as simple as that (there's voting age to be factored in) but long term the future for NI is more likely to be green than orange (sic) - that's if the Republic wants the six Counties.  

Looking forward to having Arlene as my new neighbour. :toilet

Edited by Bud the Baker
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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Demographics suggest otherwise.

'Catholic majority possible' in NI by 2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43823506

Obviously it's not as simple as that (there's voting age to be factored in) but long term the future for NI is more likely to be green than orange (sic) - that's if the Republic wants the six Counties.  

Looking forward to having Arlene as my new neighbour. :toilet

As you say it's voting age that counts and they are a long way away from that.  it won't be a product of Brexit !

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Loss of access to billions of pounds of research funding, loss of access to EU research facilities, loss of access to cross border research collaborations, loss of access to shared EU security information, loss of access to EU wide crime databases, loss of access to free trade with the rest of the EU,  extremely high risk of loss of headquarters for a wide variety of businesses including banks and our financial centres, loss of access to tens of thousands of EU migrants prepared to harvest crops when our own people would rather be social media "influencers" (whatever the f**k that means).
Still, as long as we get to keep out Johnny Foreigner right?


Sorry I couldn’t hear anything over the incoherent screeching of panic and fear.

Heres a great way to intellectually approach a situation:

Ignore what the other person said, injection lots of unsubstantiated panic points, accuse the other person of being [insert ad-hominem]

Well done, you’ve passed progressive-talking-points 101! You’re family will be so proud.
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With all due respect as a Belgian citizen, it's a lot more to me than whether I can get through in Zante. So far we only have a vague idea of what we require to remain here, with nothing set in stone as of yet. As someone who has lived in the UK most of my life, works here, pays tax and has two kids here, I don't see why I should be having to apply for "settled status" which includes a £65 fee because of a vote I was given no say in.

 

I understand your concern fully and would feel as you do, if I were in your situation. I would be greatly worried.

 

However, with all due respect, as a UK citizen I don’t give two flying fecks what citizens of other countries feel about our political decisions or the ramifications thereof. Excepting decisions to take our country to war (with probably one one or two exceptions in the last 100 years) the feeling or inconveniences of citizens of other countries isn’t my concern when I vote on what I believe is best for my country.

 

Sorry about that.

 

ETA: oh, having lived here for so long, having kids here etc, you could have applied for citizenship. Probably still could. That would settle it for you.

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28 minutes ago, Losing My Religion said:

 

I understand your concern fully and would feel as you do, if I were in your situation. I would be greatly worried.

 

However, with all due respect, as a UK citizen I don’t give two flying fecks what citizens of other countries feel about our political decisions or the ramifications thereof. Excepting decisions to take our country to war (with probably one one or two exceptions in the last 100 years) the feeling or inconveniences of citizens of other countries isn’t my concern when I vote on what I believe is best for my country.

 

Sorry about that.

 

ETA: oh, having lived here for so long, having kids here etc, you could have applied for citizenship. Probably still could. That would settle it for you.

That's easy enough to say, but it wasn't just British citizens who voted in this decision. Citizens of most Commenwealth countries were also eligible to vote.

I'm in the bizarre position of having a British father (haven't seen in 20 years) who isn't on my birth certificate, meaning what should be easy access to citizenship is actually lengthy and costly. Again, I don't see why I should be paying out, which is why I don't.

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47 minutes ago, Losing My Religion said:

 


Sorry I couldn’t hear anything over the incoherent screeching of panic and fear.

Heres a great way to intellectually approach a situation:

Ignore what the other person said, injection lots of unsubstantiated panic points, accuse the other person of being [insert ad-hominem]

Well done, you’ve passed progressive-talking-points 101! You’re family will be so proud.

 

You are a f**king idiot.

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You are a f**king idiot.

 

And you, as many of us have suspected for a long time, are clearly a genius.

 

ETA: I was just going to leave my reply as it was but I simply can’t...

 

Do you think ignoring my points and defacto calling me a racist, then, again, ignoring my points and calling me an effing idiot wins you the argument?

 

In the past political disagreement would lead to healthy debate that helped people think deeper and explore ideas to further their knowledge and understanding. That’s why I get involved in these types of discussion. I realise they involve difficult talking points and awkward conversations, but if we don’t discuss them we end up with people feeling disenfranchised, not listened to and talked down to. We end up with people being called names like “racist” and “idiot”.

 

Then what happens is people vote for stupid ideas like Trump and Brexit because they feel they haven’t been listened to.

 

You should be totally and utterly ashamed of yourself for thinking you can engage with someone on an intellectual level by calling them names and accusing them of being bigots. Perhaps, before you involve yourself in a discussion that is clearly over your head, you do a bit of research into what you think, why you think it and how to express it.

 

Our nation, now more than ever, needs unity, healthy discussion about the way ahead, a pulling together on all sides to make a very tough situation work in our favour. We won’t get that when some people can’t get past swearing and calling others names.

 

Grow the f**k up.

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That's easy enough to say, but it wasn't just British citizens who voted in this decision. Citizens of most Commenwealth countries were also eligible to vote. I'm in the bizarre position of having a British father (haven't seen in 20 years) who isn't on my birth certificate, meaning what should be easy access to citizenship is actually lengthy and costly. Again, I don't see why I should be paying out, which is why I don't.

 

 

Sorry to sound so harsh but for the privilege of living in a nation of which you are not a citizen, there is, reasonably, some cost to be incurred. If you’re not willing to pay it, what right do you have to stay here?

 

ETA - I want EU citizens who work, have family, ties etc in the UK to be able to stay in the UK. I’m sorry that you’re in this position and I’m sorry for everyone who is.

 

I also want the rest of the world, citizens of all nations, to have an equally good chance of coming to the UK and helping to build our country and a life for themselves. The EU prevents that from being our sovereign choice.

 

Herein lies the issue: Because immigration forms a part of the issues around Brexit, every Brexit voter is a racist (according to professor doctor Oaksoft PhD). So most of what A Brexit voter will say will be misconstrued as trying to keep people out or wanting people to be kicked out. That couldn’t be farther from the truth for most people I know. I won’t however shy away from the harsh realities of living in a world that has borders, differences in living standards, differences in cultural values and limited resources.

 

So again, sorry if I sound harsh but this is reality.

 

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5 minutes ago, Losing My Religion said:

 


Sorry to sound so harsh but for the privilege of living in a nation of which you are not a citizen, there is, reasonably, some cost to be incurred. If you’re not willing to pay it, what right do you have to stay here?
 

 

Do my British sons not have a right to have their father in their life? Should other families be torn apart purely on the basis that certain members are "foreign"?

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Do my British sons not have a right to have their father in their life? Should other families be torn apart purely on the basis that certain members are "foreign"?


Yes is the answer to your first question. Definitely. It depends on the circumstances is the answer to your second.

I don’t know why, though, you’ve put the word “foreign” in inverted commas... If someone isn’t a citizen of a country they are foreign according to international law, according to cultural background, according to ethnicity (probably) - foreign isn’t a social construct created by fascists to exclude people.
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20 hours ago, Losing My Religion said:

 

And you, as many of us have suspected for a long time, are clearly a genius.

 

ETA: I was just going to leave my reply as it was but I simply can’t...

 

Do you think ignoring my points and defacto calling me a racist, then, again, ignoring my points and calling me an effing idiot wins you the argument?

 

In the past political disagreement would lead to healthy debate that helped people think deeper and explore ideas to further their knowledge and understanding. That’s why I get involved in these types of discussion. I realise they involve difficult talking points and awkward conversations, but if we don’t discuss them we end up with people feeling disenfranchised, not listened to and talked down to. We end up with people being called names like “racist” and “idiot”.

 

Then what happens is people vote for stupid ideas like Trump and Brexit because they feel they haven’t been listened to.

 

You should be totally and utterly ashamed of yourself for thinking you can engage with someone on an intellectual level by calling them names and accusing them of being bigots. Perhaps, before you involve yourself in a discussion that is clearly over your head, you do a bit of research into what you think, why you think it and how to express it.

 

Our nation, now more than ever, needs unity, healthy discussion about the way ahead, a pulling together on all sides to make a very tough situation work in our favour. We won’t get that when some people can’t get past swearing and calling others names.

 

Grow the f**k up.

You really are a f**king idiot.

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20 hours ago, Losing My Religion said:

 


Yes is the answer to your first question. Definitely. It depends on the circumstances is the answer to your second.

I don’t know why, though, you’ve put the word “foreign” in inverted commas... If someone isn’t a citizen of a country they are foreign according to international law, according to cultural background, according to ethnicity (probably) - foreign isn’t a social construct created by fascists to exclude people.

 

I always wondered what a Russian web bot would look like.

Now I know. :lol:

Edited by oaksoft
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