Alan Stubbs Speaks

[lenziebud]

9 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Really...?

Jack Ross signed FORTY players so as Delia says 'Lets be 'avin them'

point is our current problems didnt start the day Stubbs walked in the door any more than they did with Oran.

Oh yes they did. They started immediately Alan Stubbs walked in the door at St Mirren.

There is no doub't we would have had a tough time in the Premiership under JR but he would never have brought in the junk that Stubbs brought nor have come close to the man management levels of Stubbs.

A lot of people getting carried away last season including a CEO.

Under JR I think we would have the Jackson, Ferdinand type recruitment and JR also had the personality to attract players. 

There is no comparison between Jack Ross and Alan Stubbs. 

[Lord Pityme]

2 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

Oh yes they did. They started immediately Alan Stubbs walked in the door at St Mirren.

There is no doub't we would have had a tough time in the Premiership under JR but he would never have brought in the junk that Stubbs brought nor have come close to the man management levels of Stubbs.

A lot of people getting carried away last season including a CEO.

Under JR I think we would have the Jackson, Ferdinand type recruitment and JR also had the personality to attract players. 

There is no comparison between Jack Ross and Alan Stubbs. 

Thats just bluster and guesswork, Ross signed forty players and not one of those remaining has shown yet they are capable of playing at this level. Yes Stubbs signed too much inexperience, but Willock, Hodson and Edwards are regulars with Heaton & Cooke appearing in the squad. 

The point there is, what you and others including Stephen McGinn are missing is these guys are St Mirren players and the ad nauseam slagging off they get every minute is doing what actually to support them? People kerp slagging these guys off, then wonder why they dont seem motivated? Ffs they are all St Mirren players until the day they are not! 

[DougJamie]

In short- Who gives a feck what Stubbs says and thinks -  he came, he fecked up, he got sacked - we move on

[lenziebud]

3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats just bluster and guesswork, Ross signed forty players and not one of those remaining has shown yet they are capable of playing at this level. Yes Stubbs signed too much inexperience, but Willock, Hodson and Edwards are regulars with Heaton & Cooke appearing in the squad. 

The point there is, what you and others including Stephen McGinn are missing is these guys are St Mirren players and the ad nauseam slagging off they get every minute is doing what actually to support them? People kerp slagging these guys off, then wonder why they dont seem motivated? Ffs they are all St Mirren players until the day they are not! 

Sorry mate but I've lost the will to live, i'm out

[spankin_panda]

1 hour ago, Buddie-Boy said:

Although he hasn't said much there, it would genuinely be interesting to hear his side of the story.  Clearly there was a lot going on.

I said something similar yesterday that I am concerned about things behind the scenes  more than on the pitch at present. 

I'd like to hear more on what he has to say with this in particular. 

The way things are being run doesn't sit well with me.... however, I am just a supporter so have no real influence in such factors.

[The Original 59er]

9 minutes ago, spankin_panda said:

I said something similar yesterday that I am concerned about things behind the scenes  more than on the pitch at present. 

I'd like to hear more on what he has to say with this in particular. 

The way things are being run doesn't sit well with me.... however, I am just a supporter so have no real influence in such factors.

I alluded to this in terms of the number of Managers we have gone through and the decision making process behind each appointment.

In 48 years and 24 managers it says a lot about the due process that was followed each time an appointment has been made. Yes some managers will have left of their own volition, but many have been sacked and then rarely have the Board managed to appoint a 'suitable' replacement. If you take the period from Danny Lennon to Jack Ross there were 6 managerial alterations in that period alone in a two and a half year period! 

AS's so called interview in the Sun isn't earth shattering, in fact it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. What it does lack is any admission from him that yes his approach with the staff he had, was perhaps not maybe handled in the best touchy-feely  way that JR may have used to keep the disparate group together as a team and that he made mistakes.

I have respect for TF for what he has done for the Club over the years, but it doesn't make him a visionary nor does it take much of a leap to question GS's role in the appointment of AS. I might suggest due process wasn't really followed by either of them and as others have said, they had their heads turned by a Cup win and a so-called coaching connection with Everton that would lead to players being brought to Paisley.

In OK I feel that at least they have someone who, if he is given the time and doesn't walk as LPM has suggested he might, just might take us on as a long-term project and grow with the club. That is a bit of a brittle dream on my part, but somewhere, someone can do this and give us a club that can survive at Premier league level in the middle of the table and for a longer period than one or two seasons. 

[Mr Optimistic]

In depth reporting! 'All was not well behind the scenes'. Really!!!? Wow would never have guessed that.

What happened at La Manga Alan and why did you lose the dressing room almost the week you were appointed? What made you think Cole was a centre half? Did you see him play? What made you pay £75,000 for another centre half who never played at ANY Level? Why did you think that signing players who had hardly played first team football at any level could compete in the SPL? What DID you say to the board to convince them you were the man to take St Mirren forward? 

Don't suppose any of it matters much now but it takes a rare talent, or no talent at all, to ruin 18 months of feelgood inside a fortnight.

A complete non story. Reporter should have been embarrassed to file that copy!!!

[DougJamie]

2 hours ago, Buddie-Boy said:

Although he hasn't said much there, it would genuinely be interesting to hear his side of the story.  Clearly there was a lot going on.

He  hasnt said much because he might hope some other mug club to take him on , with his Everton connections and marquee signing pish.

Only marquee signing was the tent he found Cody Cooke in  

[spankin_panda]

44 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

I alluded to this in terms of the number of Managers we have gone through and the decision making process behind each appointment.

In 48 years and 24 managers it says a lot about the due process that was followed each time an appointment has been made. Yes some managers will have left of their own volition, but many have been sacked and then rarely have the Board managed to appoint a 'suitable' replacement. If you take the period from Danny Lennon to Jack Ross there were 6 managerial alterations in that period alone in a two and a half year period! 

AS's so called interview in the Sun isn't earth shattering, in fact it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. What it does lack is any admission from him that yes his approach with the staff he had, was perhaps not maybe handled in the best touchy-feely  way that JR may have used to keep the disparate group together as a team and that he made mistakes.

I have respect for TF for what he has done for the Club over the years, but it doesn't make him a visionary nor does it take much of a leap to question GS's role in the appointment of AS. I might suggest due process wasn't really followed by either of them and as others have said, they had their heads turned by a Cup win and a so-called coaching connection with Everton that would lead to players being brought to Paisley.

In OK I feel that at least they have someone who, if he is given the time and doesn't walk as LPM has suggested he might, just might take us on as a long-term project and grow with the club. That is a bit of a brittle dream on my part, but somewhere, someone can do this and give us a club that can survive at Premier league level in the middle of the table and for a longer period than one or two seasons. 

Yes, I agree with this entirely. 

The appointments, how they've been handled, decision making in general has been questionable at best. It almost feels like we are run like a local amateur team and not a professional club operating in the top division with ambitions to stay there.

It a real concern and I am looking at this even purely as a business (which I hate to do), its not stable, the decisions have been costly and are not commercially viable and the club seems to lack any long term strategic planning.  Just seems the upper echelons are running trains on half built tracks whereby those below them, the team on the pitch, the manager(s) are being blamed for their poor management and us, the fans continue to finance  it and suffer the results. 

It's painful having to sit and watch it all unfold. 

I hope this time they have got it right, I guess January will be the first test; i.e. Will Gus's role deliver in targets etc, Will OK manage to snag what he needs and pull a team together to muster a fight etc etc

 

Sorry for the long post. I usually try not to.

[St.Ricky]

16 minutes ago, spankin_panda said:

Yes, I agree with this entirely. 

The appointments, how they've been handled, decision making in general has been questionable at best. It almost feels like we are run like a local amateur team and not a professional club operating in the top division with ambitions to stay there.

It a real concern and I am looking at this even purely as a business (which I hate to do), its not stable, the decisions have been costly and are not commercially viable and the club seems to lack any long term strategic planning.  Just seems the upper echelons are running trains on half built tracks whereby those below them, the team on the pitch, the manager(s) are being blamed for their poor management and us, the fans continue to finance  it and suffer the results. 

It's painful having to sit and watch it all unfold. 

I hope this time they have got it right, I guess January will be the first test; i.e. Will Gus's role deliver in targets etc, Will OK manage to snag what he needs and pull a team together to muster a fight etc etc

 

Sorry for the long post. I usually try not to.

For my money (I am a season ticket holder) the present board won a watch when they signed and supported Jack Ross but let's not forget that that was within a whisker of having gone badly wrong before becoming something to remember.  Let's not forget either that JR signed a number of players and moved them on again.  Let's not forget either that our plans were thrown into chaos by (as I have said before on here)  Jack's extended courtship dances with Ipswich and then Sunderland.  Let's not forget that this led to us missing early close season transfer targets and a need to recruit a new manager. 

Moving forward to AS,  the Board made what they thought was the right appointment from the candidates available.  To my mind,  whatever flaws AS has the board chose not to back him in dealings with existing players but did so in bringing new players in.  A recipe for disaster whoever the manager might have been.  Let's not forget that the transfer of John McGinn from Hibs and any windfall to us didn't  happen until the very end of the transfer window and more or less when AS was on his way out. 

Enter OK.  Seems bright,  personable and importantly willing to seek advice and support.  The board have had a shake and I believe Ronda visited their strategic planning on three or four levels. Not all are in place as yet but are on the way. 

Board Level

I would like to see the board further strengthened. This has still to happen. 

Managent Level

The appointment of Gus as Technical Director should provide continuity should managers change plus support for both the CEO and Board as well as Manager on the football side. 

The appointment and longer term approach being adopted by the Board and Manager provides the basis for better decision making and investment in players. 

The much heralded introduction of Jimmy Nichol will add very welcome experience and contacts to support OK. 

Playing Staff

BothJR and AS brought in a number of players,  not all of whom were a success.  Added to this, it could be argued that 3 of our best players left last season.  Morgan,  Davis, Reilly. 

However,  Two of our Three most recent signings look the part with one (Hammill) still to show their best form. 

Sunmary

Chaotic Sumner.  Awful Autumn but hopefully Wonderful Winter Break and then ready to Spring Forward. 

 

[Dibbles old paperboy]

6 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

For my money (I am a season ticket holder) the present board won a watch when they signed and supported Jack Ross but let's not forget that that was within a whisker of having gone badly wrong before becoming something to remember.  Let's not forget either that JR signed a number of players and moved them on again.  Let's not forget either that our plans were thrown into chaos by (as I have said before on here)  Jack's extended courtship dances with Ipswich and then Sunderland.  Let's not forget that this led to us missing early close season transfer targets and a need to recruit a new manager. 

Moving forward to AS,  the Board made what they thought was the right appointment from the candidates available.  To my mind,  whatever flaws AS has the board chose not to back him in dealings with existing players but did so in bringing new players in.  A recipe for disaster whoever the manager might have been.  Let's not forget that the transfer of John McGinn from Hibs and any windfall to us didn't  happen until the very end of the transfer window and more or less when AS was on his way out. 

Enter OK.  Seems bright,  personable and importantly willing to seek advice and support.  The board have had a shake and I believe Ronda visited their strategic planning on three or four levels. Not all are in place as yet but are on the way. 

Board Level

I would like to see the board further strengthened. This has still to happen. 

Managent Level

The appointment of Gus as Technical Director should provide continuity should managers change plus support for both the CEO and Board as well as Manager on the football side. 

The appointment and longer term approach being adopted by the Board and Manager provides the basis for better decision making and investment in players. 

The much heralded introduction of Jimmy Nichol will add very welcome experience and contacts to support OK. 

Playing Staff

BothJR and AS brought in a number of players,  not all of whom were a success.  Added to this, it could be argued that 3 of our best players left last season.  Morgan,  Davis, Reilly. 

However,  Two of our Three most recent signings look the part with one (Hammill) still to show their best form. 

Sunmary

Chaotic Sumner.  Awful Autumn but hopefully Wonderful Winter Break and then ready to Spring Forward. 

 

What makes you think the board should have backed Stubbs against the existing squad? The existing squad were probably over-achievers, man for man they weren't the best squad in the Championship but as a team they did the business and were one of the first teams in the UK to win their league and gain promotion.

The contrast between how Jack Ross handled a squad player like Stelios and generally got the best out of him, or how Harry Davis, Gary MacKenzie and Jack Baird were used throughout the season is a complete contrast to how Stubbs dealt with the existing players. He might well have been correct that some of them would not be good enough to take us to the next level, but he obviously alienated 50% of the players he inherited almost as soon as he arrived... which would be fine if he had moved them all on and brought in better replacements. Instead it ended up being a perfect storm. Stuck with a chunk of the squad he doesn't rate, where there is a sour relationship between them and him and his coach, and making a pig's ear of the transfer window where mediocre signings like Hodson and Edwards look miles better than the bulk of his punts from the English youth academies. About the only existing player who has still looked quite upbeat this season has been Samson. Stubbs' signings don't / didn't look happy at the club and most of the existing squad have gone backwards this season.

I happen to think Stephen McGinn called it correctly when he spoke out about Stubbs' signing policy, and despite Cammy Smith having a lot to prove at this level to consider selling him while persisting with Nicolai Brock-Madsen and having Cody Cooke and Jeff King as back up attacking options should we fail to sign 38 year old Kenny Miller on a 2 year deal was madness personified. Cannae complete the deal with Kenny Miller? OK then we'll take Ryan Edwards instead.

 

 

[St.Ricky]

30 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

What makes you think the board should have backed Stubbs against the existing squad? The existing squad were probably over-achievers, man for man they weren't the best squad in the Championship but as a team they did the business and were one of the first teams in the UK to win their league and gain promotion.

The contrast between how Jack Ross handled a squad player like Stelios and generally got the best out of him, or how Harry Davis, Gary MacKenzie and Jack Baird were used throughout the season is a complete contrast to how Stubbs dealt with the existing players. He might well have been correct that some of them would not be good enough to take us to the next level, but he obviously alienated 50% of the players he inherited almost as soon as he arrived... which would be fine if he had moved them all on and brought in better replacements. Instead it ended up being a perfect storm. Stuck with a chunk of the squad he doesn't rate, where there is a sour relationship between them and him and his coach, and making a pig's ear of the transfer window where mediocre signings like Hodson and Edwards look miles better than the bulk of his punts from the English youth academies. About the only existing player who has still looked quite upbeat this season has been Samson. Stubbs' signings don't / didn't look happy at the club and most of the existing squad have gone backwards this season.

I happen to think Stephen McGinn called it correctly when he spoke out about Stubbs' signing policy, and despite Cammy Smith having a lot to prove at this level to consider selling him while persisting with Nicolai Brock-Madsen and having Cody Cooke and Jeff King as back up attacking options should we fail to sign 38 year old Kenny Miller on a 2 year deal was madness personified. Cannae complete the deal with Kenny Miller? OK then we'll take Ryan Edwards instead.

 

 

Jack Ross,  Good as he was,  is now history.  Danny Lennon,  Good as he was,  is now history. The end of Jack's time was chaotic.  Moving on to AS. 

I didnt say the board should have backed him, as it were, against the players. I said they didn't but that at  the same time they backed his recruitment.  A potent and toxic mixture. 

I don't think however that our captain should have been as vocal.  These are internal matters for the board,  management and players to deal with. 

My main point is that the board have moved on, a new manager is in place, recruitment has begun and the club restructured to provide more stabikity.

Does it show in results yet?  No.  Are we on the right lines now?  Yes.  In my opinion. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by St.Ricky

[lenziebud]

1 hour ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

What makes you think the board should have backed Stubbs against the existing squad? The existing squad were probably over-achievers, man for man they weren't the best squad in the Championship but as a team they did the business and were one of the first teams in the UK to win their league and gain promotion.

The contrast between how Jack Ross handled a squad player like Stelios and generally got the best out of him, or how Harry Davis, Gary MacKenzie and Jack Baird were used throughout the season is a complete contrast to how Stubbs dealt with the existing players. He might well have been correct that some of them would not be good enough to take us to the next level, but he obviously alienated 50% of the players he inherited almost as soon as he arrived... which would be fine if he had moved them all on and brought in better replacements. Instead it ended up being a perfect storm. Stuck with a chunk of the squad he doesn't rate, where there is a sour relationship between them and him and his coach, and making a pig's ear of the transfer window where mediocre signings like Hodson and Edwards look miles better than the bulk of his punts from the English youth academies. About the only existing player who has still looked quite upbeat this season has been Samson. Stubbs' signings don't / didn't look happy at the club and most of the existing squad have gone backwards this season.

I happen to think Stephen McGinn called it correctly when he spoke out about Stubbs' signing policy, and despite Cammy Smith having a lot to prove at this level to consider selling him while persisting with Nicolai Brock-Madsen and having Cody Cooke and Jeff King as back up attacking options should we fail to sign 38 year old Kenny Miller on a 2 year deal was madness personified. Cannae complete the deal with Kenny Miller? OK then we'll take Ryan Edwards instead.

 

 

Spot on with this. Just unbelievable that Jack Ross is getting any blame for the shambles that Stubbs created.

Ross's team was a  better side than Livingston and look where they are. Ross was capable of adding to that team and keeping us up, no doubt about it.

If Ross had stayed I have a feeling Reilly and Davis may have done too. I suspect both player knew Jack Ross was off.

Stubbs destroyed everything about the team that Ross has built and Oran Kearney has been left the disgrace of his managerial rein.

The one person wholly responsible for where this club is at the moment is Stubbs full stop and a board that were stupid enough to appoint him.

I have been supporting St Mirren for over 50 years and Stubbs without a shadow of a doubt is the worst appointment we have ever made and there have been some really bad one's along the way !!

Edited November 2, 2018 by lenziebud

[faraway saint]

Just now, lenziebud said:

Spot on with this. Just unbelievable that Jack Ross is getting any blame for the shambles that Stubbs created.

Ross's team was a  better side than Livingston and look where they are. Ross was capable of adding to that team and keeping us up, no doubt about it.

If Ross had stayed I have a feeling Reilly and Davis may have done too. I suspect both player knew Jack Ross was off.

Stubbs destroyed everything about the team that Ross has built and Oran Kearney has been left the disgrace of his managerial rein.

The one person wholly responsible for where this club is at the moment is Stubbs full stop and a board that were stupid enough to appoint him.

So, the new manager, with 7 league games and one point, has NO responsibility for where we are? 

 

[Lord Pityme]

4 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

Spot on with this. Just unbelievable that Jack Ross is getting any blame for the shambles that Stubbs created.

Ross's team was a  better side than Livingston and look where they are. Ross was capable of adding to that team and keeping us up, no doubt about it.

If Ross had stayed I have a feeling Reilly and Davis may have done too. I suspect both player knew Jack Ross was off.

Stubbs destroyed everything about the team that Ross has built and Oran Kearney has been left the disgrace of his managerial rein.

The one person wholly responsible for where this club is at the moment is Stubbs full stop and a board that were stupid enough to appoint him.

I have been supporting St Mirren for over 50 years and Stubbs without a shadow of a doubt is the worst appointment we have ever made and there have been some really bad one's along the way !!

Which of the remaining forty players Ross signed is up to it at this level?

[St.Ricky]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

So, the new manager, with 7 league games and one point, has NO responsibility for where we are? 

 

Some folks just can't accept that time has moved on.  Jack came,  Jack wassuccessful, Jack buggered off.  Jack left chaos in his wake. 

AS has also been and gone.  Now OK is the man. 

F Man is right... The buck now stops with him. 

But... Time is needed and time will be given to put things right IMO

[buddies1877]

So, the new manager, with 7 league games and one point, has NO responsibility for where we are? 
 

Pretty much not his fault we have a squad that simply isn’t up to it.

Probably our best 3 players in our squad are his signings.

February onwards will be when I start to judge Oran and how he does even then if we do go down which I fully expect he should get a crack at next year we don’t have the money to keep chucking at backroom staff and new managers because they don’t bring instant success how ever if he recruits as bad a Stubbs he could well follow suit but already his signings are on a completely different level from Stubbs signings.

Cody Cooke to simeon Jackson

Jeff king to Adam hammill

Heaton/kpekawa to Ferdinand

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, buddies1877 said:

Pretty much not his fault we have a squad that simply isn’t up to it.

Probably our best 3 players in our squad are his signings.

February onwards will be when I start to judge Oran and how he does even then if we do go down which I fully expect he should get a crack at next year we don’t have the money to keep chucking at backroom staff and new managers because they don’t bring instant success how ever if he recruits as bad a Stubbs he could well follow suit but already his signings are on a completely different level from Stubbs signings.

Cody Cooke to simeon Jackson

Jeff king to Adam hammill

Heaton/kpekawa to Ferdinand
 

Astounding.

We struggle for years to get out of the diddy league and you're seeing going back down as acceptable?

A manager who will have had 34 league games to keep us up is the guy to lead us backup?

Sorry, I don't do fairy tales. 

[St.Ricky]

7 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Astounding.

We struggle for years to get out of the diddy league and you're seeing going back down as acceptable?

A manager who will have had 34 league games to keep us up is the guy to lead us backup?

Sorry, I don't do fairy tales. 

Fairy tales are not F Man's forte. 

I predict that, as in all good fairy tales.  SMFC will live happily for ever after. 

[buddies1877]

Astounding.
We struggle for years to get out of the diddy league and you're seeing going back down as acceptable?
A manager who will have had 34 league games to keep us up is the guy to lead us backup?
Sorry, I don't do fairy tales. 

Diddy league you sound like a follower of the ugly sisters.

It’s not acceptable to be this poor no but that’s Stubbs doing putting a squad together that I don’t believe would finish in the top half of the championship never mind stay in the premiership.

[lenziebud]

50 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

So, the new manager, with 7 league games and one point, has NO responsibility for where we are? 

 

Correct

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, buddies1877 said:

Diddy league you sound like a follower of the ugly sisters.

It’s not acceptable to be this poor no but that’s Stubbs doing putting a squad together that I don’t believe would finish in the top half of the championship never mind stay in the premiership.
 

So, you're quite happy we drop down, after the efforts of the previous manager, and the supporters, trying so fecking hard to get out?

You sound like a small town boy who's quite happy being in the diddy league. 

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, lenziebud said:

Correct

[buddies1877]

So, you're quite happy we drop down, after the efforts of the previous manager, and the supporters, trying so fecking hard to get out?
You sound like a small town boy who's quite happy being in the diddy league. 

Did I say that I’m happy?

Maybe if you got to see these players in the flesh abit more often maybe just maybe you’d appreciate the job Oran has to do to get this squad able to compete on a weekly basis in this league.

He got us off to a great start when he came in then we go away to the accies and jack getting injured in the warm up didn’t help matters leaving us having to play a rb at cb and bring in a youngster at rb then confidence is shot back down, we then face a trip up to Aberdeen again another injury to hammill doesn’t help matters what positive effect he may have brought was pretty much already knocked back out.

He hasn’t had the best rub of the green since coming in with injuries and certain decisions rightly or wrongly have all pretty much went against us.

I thought you don’t believe in fairy tales seems you may do a manager with a magic wand to solve all our problems instantly would of been nice imo aswell Shame its the real world though

[faraway saint]

6 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:

Did I say that I’m happy?

Maybe if you got to see these players in the flesh abit more often maybe just maybe you’d appreciate the job Oran has to do to get this squad able to compete on a weekly basis in this league.

He got us off to a great start when he came in then we go away to the accies and jack getting injured in the warm up didn’t help matters leaving us having to play a rb at cb and bring in a youngster at rb then confidence is shot back down, we then face a trip up to Aberdeen again another injury to hammill doesn’t help matters what positive effect he may have brought was pretty much already knocked back out.

He hasn’t had the best rub of the green since coming in with injuries and certain decisions rightly or wrongly have all pretty much went against us.

I thought you don’t believe in fairy tales seems you may do a manager with a magic wand to solve all our problems instantly would of been nice imo aswell Shame its the real world though

How long will you, and others, be content with us getting pumped almost every week?

I've seen us "in the flesh" 3 times, on TV another 4  ( I pay for that trash by students, although I don't feel the need to brag about it) and we are disorganised, lacking any direction and have not proved to me that our current manager is doing any better than the last.

People keep banging on about immeasurable issues, I prefer facts and fecking points on the board.

It was on the cards against Motherwell this "we are competing at home" bubble would burst.

I doubt the current manager has enough to get us out of this situation which, If I was in charge of the club, would have seen as a reasonable requisite on appointment. 

Apologies for wanting us to be in the top league. 

Oh for the days of debate about the "next level"....................