St.Ricky Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said: Not sure how charging folk that can afford to pay prescriptions £8 odd is stopping them receiving the drugs they need when sick. Not sure what freezing council tax has got to do with forcing councils to apply financial controls. And asking those who will benefit the most from further education to treat that education as their own investment by taking out loans that are only repayable when they are earning good money seems fair enough to me. You know oaksoft. I know for sure that you haven't thought any of this through at all. I'm with Okay on this one Wendy. NHS... Free at the the point of use includes prescriptions. Well done the Scottish Government Council Tax.. No idea how much you pay but the controls have been needed to improve focus and efficiency and keep bills down. No Tuition Fees.. I only wish we also gave grants out. Education is an Investment. Student loans... I don't like. Puts people off pursuing further education. Just my personal views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, oaksoft said: You say all this as though it's a bad thing. I love all of those policies. Imagine wanting to stop sick people receiving the drugs they need because the government is charging them for the drugs at the point of need. Glad we dont do that. Not sure how poor people lose out here. Imagine wanting to allow councils to simply increase council taxes by as much as they want without forcing them to apply financial controls. Glad we dont allow that. Not sure how poor people lose out her either. Imagine treating education as a cost rather than an investment. Glad we dont do that either. Poor people get to go to university for free. Not sure how they are losing out either. You know Wendy, I am not sure you have thought any of this through at all. As I said above: I really don't get why here in Scotland we expect and get prescriptions FOC whilst in England they cost £8.80? If you don't have to pay you will take it and if you don't use it, throw it away, if you have to pay you, you might at least think twice before taking it................. I just don't get it. The tendency will be; "what the hell I'll take the prescription it's not costing me a penny" and meanwhile a little bit more gets drained from the NHS. Now you might argue that it would be difficult to means test prescriptions, or relate them to an age grouping, but applied right across the board I just don't see how that is financially efficient. We have a great saying here in Scotland; "every mickle make a muckle"! In December'12 there was a report that at that time £500k was wasted on unused prescriptions in Scotland. Given inflation at say 3% pa that takes it to nearer £600k now . If the Government are that keen to waste such a tax revenue, then they can happily throw it in my direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, St.Ricky said: Hallelujah! Never has a truer words been written. The gift that never stops giving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, faraway saint said: The gift that never stops giving. indeed. indeed. indeed. You are so easily amused. A gorilla is more intelligent and probably better looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 I'm with Okay on this one Wendy. I’m sure oaky will be delighted with your support [emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, Wendy Saintss said: I’m sure oaky will be delighted with your support I didn't say I supported him. I said that I agreed with his views in this instance and said why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 indeed. indeed. indeed. You are so easily amused. A gorilla is more intelligent and probably better looking. That’s a disgusting thing to say Ricky. How dare you insult gorillas by comparing their intelligence and looks with faraway. [emoji16] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 I didn't say I supported him. I said that I agreed with his views in this instance and said why. Pedant alert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said: Not sure how charging folk that can afford to pay prescriptions £8 odd is stopping them receiving the drugs they need when sick. Not sure what freezing council tax has got to do with forcing councils to apply financial controls. And asking those who will benefit the most from further education to treat that education as their own investment by taking out loans that are only repayable when they are earning good money seems fair enough to me. You know oaksoft. I know for sure that you haven't thought any of this through at all. How much income are you talking about when you say people can afford these drugs? I am talking about people who need them on a regular basis. I think you are assuming it's a one-off £8 charge for sick people. Freezing the council tax forces councils to work out what their priorities are and to become more financially responsible for what they are spending because without doing so they can't maintain service levels. They will do this because cutting core service levels is almost certainly disastrous for their chances at the polls. Is this a serious question you've asked here? Good money is not £17k per year (or whatever level it is now) or anything like it. The country benefits from having a more educated population. This is an investment for the country not a cost. If everyone benefits from it, then it is only right that everyone shares in the investment risk of it. Otherwise we are asking the individual to take all the risks whilst we benefit when they succeed for no financial input ourselves. That might be a good strategy for organised criminals but a decent society? Not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 47 minutes ago, The Original 59er said: As I said above: I really don't get why here in Scotland we expect and get prescriptions FOC whilst in England they cost £8.80? If you don't have to pay you will take it and if you don't use it, throw it away, if you have to pay you, you might at least think twice before taking it................. I just don't get it. The tendency will be; "what the hell I'll take the prescription it's not costing me a penny" and meanwhile a little bit more gets drained from the NHS. Now you might argue that it would be difficult to means test prescriptions, or relate them to an age grouping, but applied right across the board I just don't see how that is financially efficient. We have a great saying here in Scotland; "every mickle make a muckle"! In December'12 there was a report that at that time £500k was wasted on unused prescriptions in Scotland. Given inflation at say 3% pa that takes it to nearer £600k now . If the Government are that keen to waste such a tax revenue, then they can happily throw it in my direction. Speak for yourself. Most people just don't think like this. Perhaps this is simply the attitude in your area. Most of the country are simply not going to be bothered driving all the way to a chemists, queue up and wait for a presciption they know in advance they don't need. To setup and run the software for this, means testing will exceed the savings. There is a reason why the government is doing this and it's not just to spend money for the sake of it. Nobody is keen to waste this money but nobody can retrieve it either by any other method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 24 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said: I’m sure oaky will be delighted with your support If I wanted support for my view I would simply point to the fact that no major political party supports you on re-introduction of prescription charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 (edited) On 11/7/2018 at 9:05 AM, saintnextlifetime said: You were found out the day you posted that you agreed with primary school infants being given psychiatric mind altering drugs , to "control" them. . I hate your posts on the subject of prescription for children. they are emotionally driven and ignore any facts that you don't like. Your views are as likely to cause harm as any good Psycho-active drugs (not the "psychiatric drugs" the interviewee refers to) are given to anyone, adult or child, in a bid to control symptoms and not to control people. Counselling and CBT take time to work ,very often the drugs are complimentary and help to stabilise someone to the point that thay can benefit from these other treatments. The point you are ignoring is that many children are distressed by their condition and also by the behaviors that the condition provokes, they WANT to be helped. What is wrong with admininstering medication in an attempt to HELP an individual? Maybe we should go back to the days when mental health issues were mostly ignored in adults and almost totally ignored in children. Most people report side effects of the medication they are taking and these are almost unavoidable since they are synthetic substances that are provided to either cure or reduce the symptoms of an illness that arises within an organic being. That doesn't mean the drugs should not be given Edited November 8, 2018 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 16 hours ago, oaksoft said: Speak for yourself. Most people just don't think like this. Perhaps this is simply the attitude in your area. Most of the country are simply not going to be bothered driving all the way to a chemists, queue up and wait for a presciption they know in advance they don't need. To setup and run the software for this, means testing will exceed the savings. There is a reason why the government is doing this and it's not just to spend money for the sake of it. Nobody is keen to waste this money but nobody can retrieve it either by any other method. Oaky, there are many posts of yours that I support, and that's not being condescending, but in this one, I'm surprised by your logic. It's nothing to do with where I live, or that the wastage is defined by a particular area, the report of 2012 was across Scotland. I don't think that people will drive to a chemist and queue for something they don't need, most times you ask for and are given a prescription it is to alleviate a condition, but I will lay a bet that there are thousands of unused prescription drugs tucked away in bathroom cabinets and as you and I know they are date limited. The act of the Scottish Parliament in wiping out any charges for prescriptions in Scotland was a populist move, but as I say my posts aren't politically motivated. Given the cost of prescriptions given out in Scotland in 2017/18 was an eye watering £1.3 billion with a total 103,400,000 separate prescriptions. By making a charge for a drug that you need was say 50% of what they charge in England and that 50% of the population would pay for it, that would raise would raise roughly another £225m per annum for the NHS in Scotland. I quite accept that £600k a year saved on wasted prescriptions is a mere drop in that ocean, but it would pay for 15 extra nurses. Surely you accept that the NHS would benefit from that kind of added income? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 25 minutes ago, The Original 59er said: Oaky, there are many posts of yours that I support, and that's not being condescending, but in this one, I'm surprised by your logic. It's nothing to do with where I live, or that the wastage is defined by a particular area, the report of 2012 was across Scotland. I don't think that people will drive to a chemist and queue for something they don't need, most times you ask for and are given a prescription it is to alleviate a condition, but I will lay a bet that there are thousands of unused prescription drugs tucked away in bathroom cabinets and as you and I know they are date limited. The act of the Scottish Parliament in wiping out any charges for prescriptions in Scotland was a populist move, but as I say my posts aren't politically motivated. Given the cost of prescriptions given out in Scotland in 2017/18 was an eye watering £1.3 billion with a total 103,400,000 separate prescriptions. By making a charge for a drug that you need was say 50% of what they charge in England and that 50% of the population would pay for it, that would raise would raise roughly another £225m per annum for the NHS in Scotland. I quite accept that £600k a year saved on wasted prescriptions is a mere drop in that ocean, but it would pay for 15 extra nurses. Surely you accept that the NHS would benefit from that kind of added income? I know this post is directed to Okay but, whilst acknowledging that it is inevitable that there will be some waste in the system, I am very much in favour of free prescriptions and free medical care at point of use. A number of peopler equire multiple medicines. I have no objection to the tax system supporting the NHS and Social Services. Some benefits are already "means tested" , perhaps rightly, and I wouldn't want to see that creep into the prescription system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, St.Ricky said: I know this post is directed to Okay but, whilst acknowledging that it is inevitable that there will be some waste in the system, I am very much in favour of free prescriptions and free medical care at point of use. A number of peopler equire multiple medicines. I have no objection to the tax system supporting the NHS and Social Services. Some benefits are already "means tested" , perhaps rightly, and I wouldn't want to see that creep into the prescription system. Ricky, you and I know sitting parliamentarians are loath to stick pennies onto the tax system as it is a non-popular move. The Tories in Westminster have been saying to the SNP for some time that they have the ability to use the tax system to raise extra funds, yet they seem slow to take up that opportunity. If the average cost per person who uses a prescription is £250 p.a., I personally wouldn't have any issue with something added in to the tax system to compensate for that, but basically you are then taxing everyone, whether they use drugs or not. Taxing all to pay for the £1.3billion p.a. is difficult, given we have roughly only 2.5million tax payers (average £520 per person) but if you use my figures you are talking of £90 per person per annum. Either way, something has to be done about the increasing cost and number of prescriptions. In the last 10 years there has been a 25% increase in the number prescribed, are we 25% less fit than in 2006? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Original 59er said: Ricky, you and I know sitting parliamentarians are loath to stick pennies onto the tax system as it is a non-popular move. The Tories in Westminster have been saying to the SNP for some time that they have the ability to use the tax system to raise extra funds, yet they seem slow to take up that opportunity. If the average cost per person who uses a prescription is £250 p.a., I personally wouldn't have any issue with something added in to the tax system to compensate for that, but basically you are then taxing everyone, whether they use drugs or not. Taxing all to pay for the £1.3billion p.a. is difficult, given we have roughly only 2.5million tax payers (average £520 per person) but if you use my figures you are talking of £90 per person per annum. Either way, something has to be done about the increasing cost and number of prescriptions. In the last 10 years there has been a 25% increase in the number prescribed, are we 25% less fit than in 2006? Could an ageing population be a major factor in the increase in prescriptions? I happen to think a minimal charge, over £8 is, IMO, expensive for anyone on regular medication, would possibly reduce prescriptions that aren't strictly required while raising additional money to help in the required care for the elderly, except Ricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 They clearly do for this guy! Dutch man, 69, starts legal fight to identify as 20 years younger https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/08/dutch-man-69-starts-legal-fight-to-identify-as-20-years-younger Quote When I’m on Tinder and it says I’m 69, I don’t get an answer. When I’m 49, with the face I have, I will be in a luxurious position.” Doctors had told him his body was that of a 45-year-old man, Ratelband argued. He described himself as a “young god”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 2 hours ago, faraway saint said: Could an ageing population be a major factor in the increase in prescriptions? I happen to think a minimal charge, over £8 is, IMO, expensive for anyone on regular medication, would possibly reduce prescriptions that aren't strictly required while raising additional money to help in the required care for the elderly, except Ricky. You were almost sensible for a moment. It's common knowledge that the ageing population is having an impact on costs for the NHS and Social Care. These same people have been paying into the system over many years. My point was similar to yours in at least the fact that it's not uncommon for people to have complex medical problems which require regular and multiple medication. The cost of these for individuals could be financially crippling . Their alternative might be not to seek medical support. Not a very caring approach. Not a society I would like to be part of. I realise that raising taxes isn't politically popular but the system works well in the Scandinavian countries. Some of these though have an initial charge for seeing the GP, which they maintain reduces "needless" visits and therefore I guess reduce prescription numbers. Each of us have our own views on this and I respect that. These are mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 7 hours ago, The Original 59er said: Oaky, there are many posts of yours that I support, and that's not being condescending, but in this one, I'm surprised by your logic. It's nothing to do with where I live, or that the wastage is defined by a particular area, the report of 2012 was across Scotland. I don't think that people will drive to a chemist and queue for something they don't need, most times you ask for and are given a prescription it is to alleviate a condition, but I will lay a bet that there are thousands of unused prescription drugs tucked away in bathroom cabinets and as you and I know they are date limited. The act of the Scottish Parliament in wiping out any charges for prescriptions in Scotland was a populist move, but as I say my posts aren't politically motivated. Given the cost of prescriptions given out in Scotland in 2017/18 was an eye watering £1.3 billion with a total 103,400,000 separate prescriptions. By making a charge for a drug that you need was say 50% of what they charge in England and that 50% of the population would pay for it, that would raise would raise roughly another £225m per annum for the NHS in Scotland. I quite accept that £600k a year saved on wasted prescriptions is a mere drop in that ocean, but it would pay for 15 extra nurses. Surely you accept that the NHS would benefit from that kind of added income? Yes I agree with that last sentence but I can't see how you can retrieve those sorts of savings. The cost of means testing software systems, continual maintenance and usage of that system, fraud detection systems, loss of money through fraud amd the cost of the staff to perform all of these tasks would eat up all of those savings. I am willing to be persuaded on this but every way I look at it, money just falls through the sieve. By the way, you mentioned £600k. Did you mean that? I am a bit frazzled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 6 hours ago, The Original 59er said: Ricky, you and I know sitting parliamentarians are loath to stick pennies onto the tax system as it is a non-popular move. The Tories in Westminster have been saying to the SNP for some time that they have the ability to use the tax system to raise extra funds, yet they seem slow to take up that opportunity. If the average cost per person who uses a prescription is £250 p.a., I personally wouldn't have any issue with something added in to the tax system to compensate for that, but basically you are then taxing everyone, whether they use drugs or not. Taxing all to pay for the £1.3billion p.a. is difficult, given we have roughly only 2.5million tax payers (average £520 per person) but if you use my figures you are talking of £90 per person per annum. Either way, something has to be done about the increasing cost and number of prescriptions. In the last 10 years there has been a 25% increase in the number prescribed, are we 25% less fit than in 2006? The average tax rate in this country including stealth taxes, NI etc is about 35% I think. I think that giving the government £1 out of every £3 you earn is more than enough for them to provide a good and stable society. If they can't run the country on that there is something seriously wrong and I certainly would want that fixed before I give them any more of my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 I think for me, it's a moral thing too. Regardless of how rich or poor you are, if you are ill I want you to get the drugs you need without having to rifle through your pockets for change as a precondition for getting those drugs. There is no doubt that some people who have to pay will simply not be able to afford it. The idea of turning away a sick person because this week they need that money for food violates every principle of decency that I have been brought up with. That principle is more important to me than ensuring that some wealthier people get free stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 On 11/7/2018 at 1:55 PM, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Yep and the UFO that me and my good wife witnessed Wow, you're right................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted November 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 On 11/7/2018 at 11:12 AM, Isle Of Bute Saint said: You have bill & Ben the flower pot men on your case. Doctors in America give out drugs nilly willy to patients who don't need them according to CNN the other day. It's a multi million pound legal drug cartel. LSD was tested as a Milatry chemical weapons by the US until it banned it in 67. It was used by the rave dance culture in the 90's. The Beatles had a massive hit with it in more ways tthan one. Bill and Ben indeed . One of them has tens of thousands of posts on a site that he is obviously compelled to post on despite two trips to the Sin Bin , he seems to have learned nothing apart from showing no respect for Div or the Forum rules as during his last trip to the Sin Bin he simply created an alias and came back onto the main Forum . Despite the fact that he condemns some forms of invalidation he reads about in the S*n newspaper , he thinks nothing of invalidating all and sundry on this Forum . Perhaps he is already on the drugs this thread is about . . As for the other one , he has some sort of championing of the kind of pseudo "science" that gave us these questionable drugs in the first place . He can't seem to differentiate between conspiracy and plain old corruption or the huge vested interests that opperate in these drugs and the marketing thereof . Oakstur is almost like the Grand Inquisitor for dodgy science . As you mention by way of CNN , there is a huge legal drug cartel going on with the horrific point that they are now targeting young kids in both America and this country . This is shocking when it is known that ant-idepressants can cause suicidal tendencies in persons under 25yrs. . The drugs don't work they simply make people worse. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 minute ago, saintnextlifetime said: Bill and Ben indeed . One of them has tens of thousands of posts on a site that he is obviously compelled to post on despite two trips to the Sin Bin , he seems to have learned nothing apart from showing no respect for Div or the Forum rules as during his last trip to the Sin Bin he simply created an alias and came back onto the main Forum . Despite the fact that he condemns some forms of invalidation he reads about in the S*n newspaper , he thinks nothing of invalidating all and sundry on this Forum . Perhaps he is already on the drugs this thread is about . . As for the other one , he has some sort of championing of the kind of pseudo "science" that gave us these questionable drugs in the first place . He can't seem to differentiate between conspiracy and plain old corruption or the huge vested interests that opperate in these drugs and the marketing thereof . Oakstur is almost like the Grand Inquisitor for dodgy science . As you mention by way of CNN , there is a huge legal drug cartel going on with the horrific point that they are now targeting young kids in both America and this country . This is shocking when it is known that ant-idepressants can cause suicidal tendencies in persons under 25yrs. . The drugs don't work they simply make people worse. . Strange you can't get me out of your head. You think that me being in the sin bin, for feck all, was disrespectful creating an alias? I don't read any newspapers never mind the Sun. Last time someone told me about you they said you were such a fecking weirdo you were almost a recluse....................no surprises there. If it would help I'd buy you anti depressants.......................although I can spell them properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, faraway saint said: If it would help I'd buy you anti depressants.......................although I can spell them properly. No. You can't, skidmark. There is no gap in the word, "antidepressants". One would have thought that someone with SO much time on his hands could get a simple slag - right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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