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Why Are We Cheating ?


shull
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It was Edwards a couple of weeks ago and and Mullen frequently.

Now Jackson yesterday, the worst of all.

An absolute diving cheat.

Disgracing the St Mirren Jersey.

Get them out out the first team and remove them from the Club in January.

We don't need this shite at our wonderful Club.

Would hate to gain success on the back of one of our players cheating.

Sort it Gordon , Tony & Oran.

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For once I agree with Shull. Gordon Scott and Tony Fitzpatrick need to have a word and put an end to this. Win at all costs is a good mentality to have, but not when it crosses the line in to blatant diving and cheating.

Get it sorted.

Edited by Kemp
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2 minutes ago, Kemp said:

For once I agree with Shull. Gordon Scott and Tony Fitzpatrick need to have a word and put an end to this. Win at all costs is a good mentality to have, but not when it crosses the line in to blatant diving and cheating.

Get it sorted.

Just the once ? :(

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1 hour ago, shull said:

It was Edwards a couple of weeks ago and and Mullen frequently.

Now Jackson yesterday, the worst of all.

An absolute diving cheat.

Disgracing the St Mirren Jersey.

Get them out out the first team and remove them from the Club in January.

We don't need this shite at our wonderful Club.

Would hate to gain success on the back of one of our players cheating.

Sort it Gordon , Tony & Oran.

Good post that I agree with, Mullen is the worst culprit as it's a weekly occurrence and it does us no favours with the officials.

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Spoiler

 

Whether any of us like it or not , the game is win at all costs nowadays. It been like that for a long time . I had a long spell managing and coaching in the 80s/90s , it was only at Amateur level , but there were plenty ex pros in the amateur game at that time . Even back then the players would discuss winning penalties , "if you get the chance go down , let the ref make the decision , he get's paid to do it"!  I must've heard that a million times. It's always going to be there !

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3 minutes ago, billyg said:
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Whether any of us like it or not , the game is win at all costs nowadays. It been like that for a long time . I had a long spell managing and coaching in the 80s/90s , it was only at Amateur level , but there were plenty ex pros in the amateur game at that time . Even back then the players would discuss winning penalties , "if you get the chance go down , let the ref make the decision , he get's paid to do it"!  I must've heard that a million times. It's always going to be there !

No, its not something we need to get involved with. Over the course of the season the 1 penalty you might actually win by cheating isn't going to rocket you up the table.

I would rather go to St Mirren games with my head held high, proud of the club that I support.

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On the point of players saying "the ref is paid to make the decision", it is just a pathetic attempt to justify it to themselves.

The former Dundee Asst Manager Graham Gartland was on the Off the Ball yesterday. They were discussing the Jordan Jones dive and Gartland was complaining he was fired as a result of losing that game and wanted an apology from the ref. Tam Cowan made the point they only person that owes him an apology is Jordan Jones. To my amazement, Gartland let Jones off scot-free, said Jones is just doing his job to win a match for Kilmarnock and that the referee is a disgrace. "He is the one paid to make the decision, he should get it right". It really showed the stupidity of the average footballer, unable to tell the difference between a deliberate act of cheating and a referee not being able to see what happened and getting the call wrong.

I thought they had really reached the pit of finding thick as pig shit footballers at that point, but then in the afternoon show they brought on Gary O'Connor.

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The problem nowadays is that we have pundits on TV and radio who continually come out and say that if there is contact then a player has the right to go down. Football is a contact sport and the only time a player should be going down is when the force of the contact is enough to bring the player to the ground. 

However, football has changed now and all other 11 teams in the Premiership will have players who go down at the first bit of contact, so I don’t see why we should be disadvantaged by telling our players to stay on their feet at all costs. 

It happens at every level of football from Barcelona down to Sunday league, and it’s not going to change any time soon. 

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2 hours ago, shull said:

It was Edwards a couple of weeks ago and and Mullen frequently.

Now Jackson yesterday, the worst of all.

An absolute diving cheat.

Disgracing the St Mirren Jersey.

Get them out out the first team and remove them from the Club in January.

We don't need this shite at our wonderful Club.

Would hate to gain success on the back of one of our players cheating.

Sort it Gordon , Tony & Oran.

Diving has been in the game for as long as I have watched football. I don't condone it and in an age of snowflake overpaid footballers it happens all over the world. How you stop it will be down to managers having the balls to deal with their offending players. However, with player power it is as likely as stopping gobbing and faking injury.

Edited by nedflanders123
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34 minutes ago, billyg said:
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Whether any of us like it or not , the game is win at all costs nowadays. It been like that for a long time . I had a long spell managing and coaching in the 80s/90s , it was only at Amateur level , but there were plenty ex pros in the amateur game at that time . Even back then the players would discuss winning penalties , "if you get the chance go down , let the ref make the decision , he get's paid to do it"!  I must've heard that a million times. It's always going to be there !

Indeed.

One of our former players, Hugh Murray was a master of this particular act, although he was less blatant and his every move wasn't scrutinised by several cameras at different angles by pundits baying for blood.

I didn't hear too many of us roaring and greeting about Shug's efforts then.

FWIW I think that Jackson's effort yesterday was pretty pathetic and he needs to be more subtle.

However, he was definitely fouled for the penalty, as he was quite clearly barged in the back. Hugh Murray would have been proud of him.:)

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19 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

Diving has been in the game for as long as I have watched football. I don't condone it and in an age of snowflake overpaid footballers it happens all over the world. How you stop it will be down to managers having the balls to deal with their offending players. However, with player power it is as likely as stopping gobbing and faking injury.

When he was a pundit , Rodney Marsh was asked his view on a certain diving incident. His reply , along these lines , " at Fulham we were coached to dive , all you had to do was go down at the merest touch , we had the former Scottish footballer Graham Leggat as the forwards coach , and he educated us on how to perform the straight leg dive ". This was 50 years ago , so it's unlikely it will be eradicated any time soon. As a club St Mirren have missed out on appearing in National Finals because opponents have cheated. I can't think why we would stop trying to win fouls and penalties now.

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20 minutes ago, billyg said:

When he was a pundit , Rodney Marsh was asked his view on a certain diving incident. His reply , along these lines , " at Fulham we were coached to dive , all you had to do was go down at the merest touch , we had the former Scottish footballer Graham Leggat as the forwards coach , and he educated us on how to perform the straight leg dive ". This was 50 years ago , so it's unlikely it will be eradicated any time soon. As a club St Mirren have missed out on appearing in National Finals because opponents have cheated. I can't think why we would stop trying to win fouls and penalties now.

I had a mate who played first team level for Ayr United while we were at school in the 80's and he was coached to dive.  He played in St Mirren youth team with Stevie Clarke and was coached to dive there too !. Used to practice it at PE during basketball and football. It will never be stopped, although VAR may influence it at top level and help cut it out to an extent but players will always look for advantage.  

Edited by lenziebud
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46 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Oh dear. Well, I hope the above posters won't be complaining next time we play Celtic and they get their usual soft penalties and free kicks from cheating.

People cheat across all walks of life, its your own choice to live ethically or not. 

If the green bigots do get a penalty from diving, then I'm sure we'll all be outraged for a wee while, then we'll realise that we have an ethically sound  life outside of football and get on with more important matters.:)

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To be fair although diving in the box can be seen as the most obvious sign of coached cheating, who among us who has ever played organised football hasn't been told to claim for throw ins or corners knowing full well that the ball came off you last, it is a sad feature of the game to try to get whatever advantage you can fair or not.

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Managers are not going to order their players to stay on their feet at all costs. Every team out their is going to ‘go down easy’ to help their team. Diving looks absolutely pathetic and is infuriating when it goes against your team, but it is ingrained and has been for decades.
It used to get blamed on foreign players coming over to the uk, but that is nonsense. Some of the worst/best divers overs the years have been Scottish or English. Even today, most of the serial divers in the EPL are homegrown, like that tube Deli Ali.
Simeon’s dive yesterday was embarrassing, but there were players diving all over the park for both teams. He should have shot or squared it anyway.
The only way to tackle diving is for the footballing authorities to start clamping down on it with hefty bans and fines, which could be tricky because it’s so widespread, but they need to start somewhere.

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Don't think Mullen has ever been coached for diving as he is so bad at it. If contact is made you can go down - IF it is the best option - shooting or passing may be the better options - but Mullen is so theatrical that even when he is legitimately brought down like at Perth the other week, the ref just walks away. His theatrics is not helping us in any way on the pitch.

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4 hours ago, Sonny said:

Don't think Mullen has ever been coached for diving as he is so bad at it. If contact is made you can go down - IF it is the best option - shooting or passing may be the better options - but Mullen is so theatrical that even when he is legitimately brought down like at Perth the other week, the ref just walks away. His theatrics is not helping us in any way on the pitch.

Agree with this about Danny. On the wider question of cheating.  I don't like to see it whoever they are playing for.  I'm glad that referees are issuing cards.  They dobt/wont get all of the decisions right but that's where it should rest unless we adopt VAR.  Having said that players might reasonably be expected to go down under a challenge but take the decision of the referee.  In a perfect world there would be no driving. 

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It was Edwards a couple of weeks ago and and Mullen frequently.
Now Jackson yesterday, the worst of all.
An absolute diving cheat.
Disgracing the St Mirren Jersey.
Get them out out the first team and remove them from the Club in January.
We don't need this shite at our wonderful Club.
Would hate to gain success on the back of one of our players cheating.
Sort it Gordon , Tony & Oran.
Sorry. Have to disagree with your comment about Jackson diving yesterday. I was sitting directly behind the goal and he was definitely fouled! It was a definite goal scoring opportunity and he would've scored if he wasn't fouled. No qualms about Mullen etc diving but yesterday was a penalty!!!
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Just watched Sportscene.

" Simulation Jackson " he was christened.

Also, I hope I will never see the day that any St Mirren player acts like that cnut Morelos.

Never mind the wee fanny rolling about like a fecking jessie to get McHugh his first booking.

But, at the penalty incident, he was in the Referee's face demanding another card for McHugh and when he was sent off the Sevco moron stood there and applauded the Ref's decision.

 

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Some players have this as a bad habit but I think a huge factor in what we've seen from Edwards and Jackson in recent weeks is desperation. 

We've been struggling so much this season that they're desperate. It doesn't make good viewing when it results in diving like we've seen but the players probably aren't thinking much in that split second. 

When you're not creating chances, scoring goals, or having the ability to beat a man then a chance at a penalty seems like a better idea than trying to get to the ball that you've just put past your man.  I think that's why we've seen Edwards and Jackson give up good positions in the faint hope of winning a penalty. 

Desperation, but it needs to be stamped out by Kearney. 

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