Saint Mirren v Hamilton 1 Dec 2018

[stlucifer]

13 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

Yeah, obviously would rather have won both games but just trying to remain positive.
We are only 5 behind them. Same as we were before hearts game.

That game was a chance to go above them. We blew it and I believe that's one that will be psychologically hard to take for the players. After the high of Hearts I've bad feeling it'll be a hangover v Hibs. I hope I'm wrong, as I always do when predicting gloom and doom.

[Soctty]

19 hours ago, magnus said:

Difficult one to take positives from. We had chances but have no composure in front of goal. Midfield looks slow. Defence was very shaky. Big Jack looked unable to turn with the ball at his feet and kept passing back to the goalie. Erahan was getting skinned second half and our goalie was poor at cross balls. As Ok says - back to the drawing board.

The positives are that we had the bulk of the possession, had far more efforts at goal, albeit too few on target. We also didn't stop trying to get back into it, even after going down to ten and were unlucky not to reduce the defecit. The big negative is our defending of set pieces. Those two first half goals put a different complexion on a match we were otherwise the better team in. There is no point working hard to get the upper hand in games if we then give away soft goals like that. Their third was a great strike, although again we should have closed down more quickly.

I would think Anton will be back in the starting lineup on Wednesday to organise those around him. I'd imagine Mullen will come in for Jackson, giving us the chasing and pressing that Jackson provides. Hibs are struggling at the moment, so perhaps we can nick something at Easter Road, ahead of another tough away match next Saturday where we will again be exposed to Livi's physical threat. I'd be tempted to start Cooke in that one to give us a bit more height at set pieces.

[magnus]

2 minutes ago, Soctty said:

The positives are that we had the bulk of the possession, had far more efforts at goal, albeit too few on target. We also didn't stop trying to get back into it, even after going down to ten and were unlucky not to reduce the defecit. The big negative is our defending of set pieces. Those two first half goals put a different complexion on a match we were otherwise the better team in. There is no point working hard to get the upper hand in games if we then give away soft goals like that. Their third was a great strike, although again we should have closed down more quickly.

I would think Anton will be back in the starting lineup on Wednesday to organise those around him. I'd imagine Mullen will come in for Jackson, giving us the chasing and pressing that Jackson provides. Hibs are struggling at the moment, so perhaps we can nick something at Easter Road, ahead of another tough away match next Saturday where we will again be exposed to Livi's physical threat. I'd be tempted to start Cooke in that one to give us a bit more height at set pieces.

Wouldn't disagree with this Soccty. I do think Hamilton let teams have possession though so possession in itself might not be quite such a positive. Quality wise, we are a bit behind most teams we play every week. We give away soft goals, create very few chances and miss most of the few we do create. None of this is news to any of us. All we can do is stay in touch with the teams above us and have a Jack Rossesque January window. No pressure Oran....

[Soctty]

1 minute ago, magnus said:

Wouldn't disagree with this Soccty. I do think Hamilton let teams have possession though so possession in itself might not be quite such a positive. Quality wise, we are a bit behind most teams we play every week. We give away soft goals, create very few chances and miss most of the few we do create. None of this is news to any of us. All we can do is stay in touch with the teams above us and have a Jack Rossesque January window. No pressure Oran....

I get your point re possession, but we had 22 attempts at goal, all but 4 of them (including Mullen's shot off the crossbar) were off target, which is an issue, but getting into areas where we can have attempts is a plus.

We have given away soft goals on Saturday, which as I said is an issue. January will give the manager the chance to put his stamp on the team, and I am quite confident based on the guys he has brought in so far that he has a good eye. Rumour has it we have another keeper on trial, with reinforcements being sought in midfield, up front and on the wing as a minimum. It will be telling how we react to this defeat on Wednesday. If we can give a spirited performance and cut out the soft goals, we have a chance of taking something from a Hibs team which has been toothless in recent weeks.

[stlucifer]

43 minutes ago, Soctty said:

I get your point re possession, but we had 22 attempts at goal, all but 4 of them (including Mullen's shot off the crossbar) were off target, which is an issue, but getting into areas where we can have attempts is a plus.

We have given away soft goals on Saturday, which as I said is an issue. January will give the manager the chance to put his stamp on the team, and I am quite confident based on the guys he has brought in so far that he has a good eye. Rumour has it we have another keeper on trial, with reinforcements being sought in midfield, up front and on the wing as a minimum. It will be telling how we react to this defeat on Wednesday. If we can give a spirited performance and cut out the soft goals, we have a chance of taking something from a Hibs team which has been toothless in recent weeks.

Unfortunately Hamilton weren't exactly banging them in before Saturday. 3 goals in 6 games. None in their last 2. The last time they scored more than 1 in any game was, you guessed it, against us. Don't hold much hope for Hibs game. We're once again becoming Santa Mirren, gifting goals. In fact could well be joint bottom of the league after |Wednesday.

 

Merry fn xmas! 

Edited December 3, 2018 by stlucifer

[cambiebud]

How many more games does Kearney realistically get? I don't think anyone can say any progress has been made.

His players or not, we don't look organised and we seem ridiculously easy to play against, we're so one dimensional while attempting to attack?

He needs a massive January.

Have you learned nothing from our past shambles? Clubs like us struggle because we press the panic button far too early. Our history is littered with these decisions. The manager will be here at least 2 years. He must be given time to shape his own team, even if that means relegation.

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, Soctty said:

I get your point re possession, but we had 22 attempts at goal, all but 4 of them (including Mullen's shot off the crossbar) were off target, which is an issue, but getting into areas where we can have attempts is a plus.

We have given away soft goals on Saturday, which as I said is an issue. January will give the manager the chance to put his stamp on the team, and I am quite confident based on the guys he has brought in so far that he has a good eye. Rumour has it we have another keeper on trial, with reinforcements being sought in midfield, up front and on the wing as a minimum. It will be telling how we react to this defeat on Wednesday. If we can give a spirited performance and cut out the soft goals, we have a chance of taking something from a Hibs team which has been toothless in recent weeks.

No point in looking on the dark side of things. Realistically we have gone from poor at the start of the season to being inconsistent.

Right to point out the "wasted opportunities " in front of goal and our troubles in covering set pieces.

Changes will be made in January. I expect these to be positive. Doesn't mean we will suddenly shoot up the league but I do expect us to be in the mix with a group of 4 near the bottom. The rest is down to hard work.

Edited December 3, 2018 by St.Ricky

[Lord Pityme]

3 minutes ago, cambiebud said:

 

 

Have you learned nothing from our past shambles? Clubs like us struggle because we press the panic button far too early. Our history is littered with these decisions. The manager will be here at least 2 years. He must be given time to shape his own team, even if that means relegation.

 

 

Cant agree with that last line, and if either the board or Oran stated that before he took the job on then what the hell is he being paid for?

he was given almost all the season to finish tenth. If he and the board knew he couldn't do it when they interviewed him then why appoint the man at all? That is planning to fail. If he hasnt got us within a win of tenth in January then the board have to look at themselves and admit they've f**ked it up again.

I don't remember one single comment form the club on his appointment along the lines of "if Oran cant keep us in the league with almost all the season to play for,  he'll still be here next season"

[gc_SMFC]

Have you learned nothing from our past shambles? Clubs like us struggle because we press the panic button far too early. Our history is littered with these decisions. The manager will be here at least 2 years. He must be given time to shape his own team, even if that means relegation.

I personally disagree. The size of our club, and football in general means that managers have to work with what they inherit.

The days of managers getting multiple years without success, are thankfully gone. Few clubs are in a position that it's acceptable to allow managers to rebuild the entire team.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be questioning performances and definitely results so far. It falls at the managers door. He had a prolonged period to work with the team during the international window and I don't think we look any more organised than what we did under Stubbs. It's basic play that saw us meekly surrender to Accies.

[St.Ricky]

7 minutes ago, gc_SMFC said:

I personally disagree. The size of our club, and football in general means that managers have to work with what they inherit.

The days of managers getting multiple years without success, are thankfully gone. Few clubs are in a position that it's acceptable to allow managers to rebuild the entire team.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be questioning performances and definitely results so far. It falls at the managers door. He had a prolonged period to work with the team during the international window and I don't think we look any more organised than what we did under Stubbs. It's basic play that saw us meekly surrender to Accies.


 

Nothing wrong with questioning the manager or results at any time but this season is hardly typical given the summer shambles which kicked off when JR decided to leave. Add in the AS period including signings and we had the perfect storm. Add in our first choice keeper leaving and we have the perfect hurricane!

Time might well prove me wrong but I expect us to be there or thereabouts in the quest to avoid automatic relegation or the play offs. 

A lot will depend on offloading players to other clubs in order to create opportunities for new players to join.  Over to Tony and Gus respectively on these .

Since Oran will have the final say on recruitment then it is only right that he stands or falls on the results he achieves. Would I keep him and give him another transfer window if we are relegated? 

I'd like to think so but any decision on that would be based on how we play and how many points we score after the winter break. If we improve greatly but still miss out then OK for OK. If we don't improve then perhaps not.

 

[gc_SMFC]

Nothing wrong with questioning the manager or results at any time but this season is hardly typical given the summer shambles which kicked off when JR decided to leave. Add in the AS period including signings and we had the perfect storm. Add in our first choice keeper leaving and we have the perfect hurricane!
Time might well prove me wrong but I expect us to be there or thereabouts in the quest to avoid automatic relegation or the play offs. 
A lot will depend on offloading players to other clubs in order to create opportunities for new players to join.  Over to Tony and Gus respectively on these .
Since Oran will have the final say on recruitment then it is only right that he stands or falls on the results he achieves. Would I keep him and give him another transfer window if we are relegated? 
I'd like to think so but any decision on that would be based on how we play and how many points we score after the winter break. If we improve greatly but still miss out then OK for OK. If we don't improve then perhaps not.
 

Definitely. It wasn't an easy position to be stepping into, but we should never be hiring a manager in the hope that he signs loads of new guys to turn it around.

I'm not saying he needs to be sacked immediately. But was asking how many more games does he actually get at the current rate of points accrued

[cambiebud]

As most of you know, I was not one calling for Stubbs to go when he was sacked. To me it smacked of panic. Bringing in Oran has not yet yielded results. So sacking the previous manager has not yet worked. I genuinely think that the club should not make the same mistake again. The real problem was Jack Ross going and, while it was the right thing for his career, it left us in a car crash situation. However, the board compounded the problem by pandering to the vocal minority, who took their frustration out on Stubbs. Certainly, Oran cannot be judged on the performances up to now.

[smcc]

1 hour ago, cambiebud said:

As most of you know, I was not one calling for Stubbs to go when he was sacked. To me it smacked of panic. Bringing in Oran has not yet yielded results. So sacking the previous manager has not yet worked. I genuinely think that the club should not make the same mistake again. The real problem was Jack Ross going and, while it was the right thing for his career, it left us in a car crash situation. However, the board compounded the problem by pandering to the vocal minority, who took their frustration out on Stubbs. Certainly, Oran cannot be judged on the performances up to now.

I have to disagree. They compounded the problem by appointing Stubbs and I don't believe that the" vocal "minority was instrumental in Stubbs' sacking. In fact, I don't believe that  it was a minority!

Edited December 3, 2018 by smcc

[jaybee]

20 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

23 hours ago, Gordon Urquhart said:

McShane, Flynn and Edwards should all be released. Too similar and too ineffective for this league.

There are probably others in front of them in the release stakes.

LPM, Topcat, Faraway?   Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh bliss  

[Sonny]

1 hour ago, cambiebud said:

As most of you know, I was not one calling for Stubbs to go when he was sacked. To me it smacked of panic. Bringing in Oran has not yet yielded results. So sacking the previous manager has not yet worked. I genuinely think that the club should not make the same mistake again. The real problem was Jack Ross going and, while it was the right thing for his career, it left us in a car crash situation. However, the board compounded the problem by pandering to the vocal minority, who took their frustration out on Stubbs. Certainly, Oran cannot be judged on the performances up to now.

That bit is not right. The Board decided to get of Stubbs for many good reasons but moans from supporters was not one of them.

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, Sonny said:

That bit is not right. The Board decided to get of Stubbs for many good reasons but moans from supporters was not one of them.

I don't think we will ever know the full background to Alan Stubbs time at the club.  Fans were split on the appointment and performances but doubt they made a difference. 

[buddies1877]

As most of you know, I was not one calling for Stubbs to go when he was sacked. To me it smacked of panic. Bringing in Oran has not yet yielded results. So sacking the previous manager has not yet worked. I genuinely think that the club should not make the same mistake again. The real problem was Jack Ross going and, while it was the right thing for his career, it left us in a car crash situation. However, the board compounded the problem by pandering to the vocal minority, who took their frustration out on Stubbs. Certainly, Oran cannot be judged on the performances up to now.

Was certainly not the minority.

There was no panic about it they made the correct decision Stubbs f**ked our squad up this season with the utter shite he signed.

He simply couldn’t be trusted with another penny from the club as he wasted so much.

It’s amazing how many people think a manager can just wave a wand and turn a shite squad into a good one within a few weeks without even having a transfer window to try ship some of the shite out.

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, buddies1877 said:

Was certainly not the minority.

There was no panic about it they made the correct decision Stubbs f**ked our squad up this season with the utter shite he signed.

He simply couldn’t be trusted with another penny from the club as he wasted so much.

It’s amazing how many people think a manager can just wave a wand and turn a shite squad into a good one within a few weeks without even having a transfer window to try ship some of the shite out.

Robbie Nealson? 

It's amazing that people think a new manager can't improve a set of players to reach even mediocre levels. 

[stlucifer]

4 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Robbie Nealson? 

It's amazing that people think a new manager can't improve a set of players to reach even mediocre levels. 

Can I assume you left this one for youknowwho?

[buddies1877]

Robbie Nealson? 
It's amazing that people think a new manager can't improve a set of players to reach even mediocre levels. 

How did they get on v ayr United?

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Can I assume you left this one for youknowwho?

Naw, it's a feck up............................

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:

How did they get on v ayr United?

Another eejit, basing it on one game..........................

Game over, thanks for playing. 

[munoz]

9 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Robbie Nealson? 

It's amazing that people think a new manager can't improve a set of players to reach even mediocre levels. 

Hardly comparable. Utd's wage budget will dwarf every other team in that division. I imagine  Ross County is the only team that comes close. 

With the players they have , they should be doing well.

[buddies1877]

Another eejit, basing it on one game..........................
Game over, thanks for playing. 

The only eejit is the one trying to compare our current predicament with Dundee Utd one has the biggest budget in their league the other has prob second smallest in their league.


If you think that taking over at Dundee Utd was similar or harder job than taking over st Mirren this season then you must be an eejit.

[faraway saint]

Just now, munoz said:

Hardly comparable. Utd's wage budget will dwarf every other team in that division. I imagine  Ross County is the only team that comes close. 

With the players they have , they should be doing well.

Not the point or even close.

He picked up a team that were under performing, now they aren't.

I'm not looking for us to be at the top of the league just out performing two honking sides in Dundee and Hamilton. 

We're above one, behind the other. 

I'm sorry if my expectation is above some, who are quite content that we drop down when the manager will have had almost 90% of a season in charge.

We're not down yet so there's still plenty of time.