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East Lothian Saint

Motivation Required

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40 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Indeed. The oil companies I've worked for, and the managers, would walk out of any sort of presentation spouting this drivel.

On the other hand colleges/universities would lap it up. 

Strangely. Oil companies and e.g. Large Pharma companies are desperate to solve these issues but you need to be at the top of the tree to see the whole view.

I've personally advised large oil companies and supply organisations as well  as Pharma Companies and others on how to move beyond the expected diminishing returns from purely process driven approaches. Strangely. Profits improve, people satisfaction rises. 

Looking up from your past positions you may not have seen the benefits. They take time to work through the whole system.

Anyway..nice to have your input.

Would love to read your views on motivation.  Why not give that a go?

Edited by St.Ricky

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14 hours ago, oaksoft said:

"Arguing with an idiot is as pointless as trying to hammer nails into concrete using grated cheese".

That was as true when my mum passed this nugget of wisdom to me at the age of 8 as it is now.

I wish I'd remembered that before replying to your post.

As for whether he said what I claimed he had, I'd rather hear that from sweeper rather than you. No offence.

 

None taken, its a St Mirren Forum.

 

You should try remembering that sometimes :P

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Working on a construction vessel with a crew of 400 I had a team of 36. Supervisors consisted of a head chef, and one leading steward. They were given special privileges from me such as direct contact with home by phone. A percentage of my on-board bonus plus other extras. The rest of the crew were given a unofficial half day off once a week ashore if possible or on-board if at sea. I always told the captain of the incentives and why. My crew were doing 8 weeks on-board each trip working 12 hour shifts.. Every morning my whole department would gather for 30min to go through the standard of work where improvements could be made by everyone's input. I would have a report made by the Captain and medic each week covering everything from food to service and hygiene this report was sent to head office also. We had the highest satisfactory score out of 30 vessels.  I would go round each team member and go through the report congratulating each staff member individually. Kitchen staff would get to see each quarterly figures so they had an understanding of budgets something I never experienced as a chef. It was all to do with my idea of motivation rewards for hard work. Of course even though some were given time to improve but did not I would then submit a change of staff. Motivation is huge. 

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On 12/5/2018 at 1:29 PM, East Lothian Saint said:

A Wee Motivational Story

Once upon a time we were shite.

On the 18 September 2016 Alex Rae got the blame and was told to feck off. St Mirren continued on a downward spiral and the forums were split on the new guy as the team plummeted towards the third tier of Scottish Football for the first time in their History. The future looked bleaker than a day out with the seventh Cavalry at the Little Big Horn. Our scalp was claimed every week and Comparisons between Jack Ross and General Custer were arguable. From week 5 to week 30 of that season we were ensconced in the automatic relegation spot.

Somehow, somewhere something changed into what was a magnificent season that magically unfolded in fairy tale proportions as the Great Escape became etched in the annuls of St Mirren History.

One of my main memories of that season was a little ditty the W7 crew had been chanting which became synonymous with our championship win. “We’re on our way,” was certainly looking like being on our way to oblivion but it wasn’t until one day in the Pie queue at Palmerston when I heard them signing that we were on our way to the Premiership and I laughed like Feck.

How we were going to get there, I certainly didn’t know and while they didn’t care, the chances of it happening any time soon looked remoter than Shull becoming a Full blooded, died in the wool old firm fan. There was fecking no chance.

But the W7 mob had a goal. They knew where they wanted to be and thankfully JR had the same idea. The stupid fecking, nonsensical song being sung at a time when St Mirren looked to be disappearing into Football Oblivion became the St Mirren Championship winning anthem.

Many of the Corporate motivation theorist actually teach that getting to where you want to be is not about how you get there but that the identification of what you want to achieve is the only thing that is important and the logistics are something we shouldn’t care about so the W7 lads and lasses where right up there with Modern Motivational thinking.

Does anyone know a song about avoiding relegation and going on to win the Premiership and the Champions league?

If Oran, the team, W7 and the rest of us can Unite in a song, we’ll be on our way.

 “People Who Are Crazy Enough To Think They Can Change The World, Are The Ones Who Do.”

Doakes came up with "We are staying up". Any other suggestions out there? 

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On 12/6/2018 at 7:48 PM, St.Ricky said:

Strangely. Oil companies and e.g. Large Pharma companies are desperate to solve these issues but you need to be at the top of the tree to see the whole view.

I've personally advised large oil companies and supply organisations as well  as Pharma Companies and others on how to move beyond the expected diminishing returns from purely process driven approaches. Strangely. Profits improve, people satisfaction rises. 

Looking up from your past positions you may not have seen the benefits. They take time to work through the whole system.

Anyway..nice to have your input.

Would love to read your views on motivation.  Why not give that a go?

I work for a large pharma company and trust me, when any of the managers come away with this quasi-intellectual, backhanded motivational jargon, it's ignored at best and at worst, quietly scoffed at. Almost all of it is pish. 

I know my role, I know my job and am good at it. I don't need someone at the back of me telling me what will make me achieve success. Want to motivate me? Financially incentivise me. 

Edited by djchapsticks

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1 hour ago, djchapsticks said:

I work for a large pharma company and trust me, when any of the managers come away with this quasi-intellectual, backhanded motivational jargon, it's ignored at best and at worst, quietly scoffed at. Almost all of it is pish. 

I know my role, I know my job and am good at it. I don't need someone at the back of me what will make me achieve success. Want to motivate me? Financially incentivise me. 

Money incentives work to an extent.  No argument with that.  But they have been shown not to produce long term changes in attitudes or productivity and to decline in effectiveness over time.   You clearly misread what I have written.  Changes in culture depend on changes in behaviour at the top which are both highly visible, sustained and genuine. People are not fools and immediately sniff out insincerity.  Talk is cheap and usually innefective. Unfortunately you are right that some organisations try to go down a route where they use jargon but fail to bring about changes in behaviour from directors downwards.  I worked with several big pharma companies.  One won international recognition for it's HR practices and were very miffed when I told them that the behaviours of managers was lousy and innefective,  leading to a variety of issues which impacted on productivity and profitability whilst also making work less fulfilling in many ways.  We're the directors willing to change?  That's another story.  

Back to the topic which East started.  is there a song out there that is positive and catches the mood of where we are going as a club.  Or do we not yet have a shared view of where the club will be in 2/3 years. "We're on our way" summed up where we were.  Doakes has made a suggestion.  Any others out there able to answer East's call? 

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3 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Money incentives work to an extent.  No argument with that.  But they have been shown not to produce long term changes in attitudes or productivity and to decline in effectiveness over time.   You clearly misread what I have written.  Changes in culture depend on changes in behaviour at the top which are both highly visible, sustained and genuine. People are not fools and immediately sniff out insincerity.  Talk is cheap and usually innefective. Unfortunately you are right that some organisations try to go down a route where they use jargon but fail to bring about changes in behaviour from directors downwards.  I worked with several big pharma companies.  One won international recognition for it's HR practices and were very miffed when I told them that the behaviours of managers was lousy and innefective,  leading to a variety of issues which impacted on productivity and profitability whilst also making work less fulfilling in many ways.  We're the directors willing to change?  That's another story.  

Back to the topic which East started.  is there a song out there that is positive and catches the mood of where we are going as a club.  Or do we not yet have a shared view of where the club will be in 2/3 years. "We're on our way" summed up where we were.  Doakes has made a suggestion.  Any others out there able to answer East's call? 

What a load of jargon you spout.

So now you're not only the international man of Mittfery, you actually have the audacity to claim to know better than those who are INTERNATIONALLY recognised?

And you tag on a footnote to try to make your post seem relevant?

Get real. (If that's remotely possible).

 

As a footnote.

The only motivation needed for a footballer is pride and competitiveness.  An eagerness to compete and win, after all, is what motivated most to take up the sport. Money comes as a result of the success in doing so.

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1 minute ago, stlucifer said:

What a load of jargon you spout.

So now you're not only the international man of Mittfery, you actually have the audacity to claim to know better than those who are INTERNATIONALLY recognised?

And you tag on a footnote to try to make your post seem relevant?

Get real. (If that's remotely possible).

 

As a footnote.

The only motivation needed for a footballer is pride and competitiveness.  An eagerness to compete and win, after all, is what motivated most to take up the sport. Money comes as a result of the success in doing so.

Again you either accidentally or wilfully misread or misrepresent. 

My job was to assess and then advise boards of directors on the effectiveness of their approaches and their implementation and to suggest improvements backed by facts. 

Unfortunately having practices which might be Award winning are of no use if the directors and managers don't live up to them. This happens.  HR were great.  The managers were not.  This happens. 

This leads directly to what the previous poster wrote about. 

Back to football.

East asked a simple question.  Do you have any suggestions in reply to his post? 

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On 12/6/2018 at 6:56 PM, oaksoft said:

I would love to fire in but there isn't a single concrete proposal in that large post of yours.

Plenty of hand waving vaguery.

People actually pay you to say this stuff to them? Honestly I am seriously impressed bud.

Leadership and Stakeholder Management? What is it with management people that they have to make relatively easy things so needlessly complicated? :lol:

Had a conversation with one of my mates recently about the rise of Agile and people calling themselves an ‘Agile Scrum Master’. I’ve seen people charge circa £1k a day to do this. They are just spraying the same pish, just using different words.

What a great way to make money from idiots.

Anyway, this thread is utter pish in every way.

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43 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

What a load of jargon you spout.

So now you're not only the international man of Mittfery, you actually have the audacity to claim to know better than those who are INTERNATIONALLY recognised?

And you tag on a footnote to try to make your post seem relevant?

Get real. (If that's remotely possible).

 

As a footnote.

The only motivation needed for a footballer is pride and competitiveness.  An eagerness to compete and win, after all, is what motivated most to take up the sport. Money comes as a result of the success in doing so.

Haters gotta hate!

I once worked for a public  body who signd up the year before's Personnel Maager of the Year as HR director.  Amongst his many personal sins was to call in one of his staff for a "chat" to "discuss" an expense claim (his PA actually used the inverted commas in the invite!).  Waiting in the room was another senior manager from HR and an accountant.  Fortunately we were able to prepare the guy concerned and as well as having his national union officer in the car  he took along the sign-in books of over 200 installations  across scotland that he had visited in the previous 12 months which clearly showed he had done over 50000 business miles in 9 months and had only claimed about 90% of what he was due.  many ofthe trips started at 4am  and many others only saw him get home at 11pm and later.  This was because the director had deliberately dragged his heels onreplacing 3 leavers and clearly instructing the guy to do all of the work that had been logged on his own.

The tone of the " chat" quickly changed and the director said he convened the discussion as he was concerend for the safety of someone doing so many miles and working such long hours-he couldn't explain why he needed an accountant to relay such a message and denied that he was going to question the legality of the expenses. 

This all goes to show that a highly recognised professional was also a total c*nt who chose to ignore his own award-winning proecedures when it suited him if he wanted to bump someone he didnt like

as for your footnote, you actually concurred with the main point of Ricky's post

But haters gotta hate, eh?

 

Edited by beyond our ken

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47 minutes ago, aldo_j said:

Anyway, this thread is utter pish in every way.

Ha! ha! 3 page thread on utter pish.  You're right Aldo. All through my professional career I was subjected to all sorts of motivational training which seldom changed the ethos of the workplace.

The one phrase which lasted throughout the tenure of my Profession was "The Job's Fecked."  It was the one everyone subscribed to and remembered irrespective of their motivational inspiration.

The deadwood blamed the job for their lack of inspiration. The go-getters blamed the deadwood and the journeymen blamed everyone else however "TJF" sort of united everyone in a way  that motivational training couldn't.

So Back to the Football.

The Team's Fecked.

Can we as fans Help motivate them and get them back "on their way".

 

 

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5 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

Ha! ha! 3 page thread on utter pish.  You're right Aldo. All through my professional career I was subjected to all sorts of motivational training which seldom changed the ethos of the workplace.

The one phrase which lasted throughout the tenure of my Profession was "The Job's Fecked."  It was the one everyone subscribed to and remembered irrespective of their motivational inspiration.

The deadwood blamed the job for their lack of inspiration. The go-getters blamed the deadwood and the journeymen blamed everyone else however "TJF" sort of united everyone in a way  that motivational training couldn't.

So Back to the Football.

The Team's Fecked.

Can we as fans Help motivate them and get them back "on their way".

 

 

I will start the songs in W1 on Saturday. 

Join in. 

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How about some pychological witchcraft.

If we adapt Top Petty's I won't Back down and convert it to "we won't go down"  and just tell the team that going down isn't acceptable

"We won't go Down"

No, we won't go down
No, We won't go down
Alan Stubbs took us to the gates of hell
But we won't go down

Yes, We'll stand our ground
Oran can turn it round
And we'll keep  Our Team in The Premiership
Gonna stand our ground
And we won't go down

 

Just Imagine if the whole ground gave the players that message. If they didn't pull their socks up we'd all look stupid.

Might work.

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20 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

How about some pychological witchcraft.

If we adapt Top Petty's I won't Back down and convert it to "we won't go down"  and just tell the team that going down isn't acceptable

"We won't go Down"

No, we won't go down
No, We won't go down
Alan Stubbs took us to the gates of hell
But we won't go down

Yes, We'll stand our ground
Oran can turn it round
And we'll keep  Our Team in The Premiership
Gonna stand our ground
And we won't go down

 

Just Imagine if the whole ground gave the players that message. If they didn't pull their socks up we'd all look stupid.

Might work.

Kiss of death perhaps but I like this one. 

Any chance of getting the music played and the words on the big screen? 

Might be worth a try. 

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On a serious note

Wasn't there a witch that put a curse on Paisley using a horseshoe? Rumour has it that moving the horseshoe would eternally curse Paisley. Pretty sure it was removed, not sure if it was ever put back...:ph34r:

 

edit: here it is

 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/were-doomedso-says-ancient-witches-11120855

Edited by Doakes

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