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East Lothian Saint

Motivation Required

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19 minutes ago, Doakes said:

On a serious note

Wasn't there a witch that put a curse on Paisley using a horseshoe? Rumour has it that moving the horseshoe would eternally curse Paisley. Pretty sure it was removed, not sure if it was ever put back...:ph34r:

 

edit: here it is

 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/were-doomedso-says-ancient-witches-11120855

So it wasnt Stubbs after all ???:shockaroony

He replaced the horseshoe with a good few horsesarses

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6 hours ago, aldo_j said:

Had a conversation with one of my mates recently about the rise of Agile and people calling themselves an ‘Agile Scrum Master’. I’ve seen people charge circa £1k a day to do this. They are just spraying the same pish, just using different words.

What a great way to make money from idiots.

Anyway, this thread is utter pish in every way.

Oh god I'd forgotten all about that nonsense.

I used to be a software engineer and I was lucky enough to be around when we at least tried to ensure our products were designed and properly tested before being released to the public. The agile philosophy means you test it in the marketplace with the aim of getting money in early so you can fund the repairs. I just couldn't work in that sort of job now. I don't know how anyone can. I remember a few folk in the office getting all excited about this Agile shite. I remember a very strong push to introduce something called "Pair Programming" where you code in pairs with one person watching the coder. Murder would have been committed if anyone had tried to do that with me. :lol:

People might not realise it but this appears to be the philosophy used with Universal Credit.

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6 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

Haters gotta hate!

I once worked for a public  body who signd up the year before's Personnel Maager of the Year as HR director.  Amongst his many personal sins was to call in one of his staff for a "chat" to "discuss" an expense claim (his PA actually used the inverted commas in the invite!).  Waiting in the room was another senior manager from HR and an accountant.  Fortunately we were able to prepare the guy concerned and as well as having his national union officer in the car  he took along the sign-in books of over 200 installations  across scotland that he had visited in the previous 12 months which clearly showed he had done over 50000 business miles in 9 months and had only claimed about 90% of what he was due.  many ofthe trips started at 4am  and many others only saw him get home at 11pm and later.  This was because the director had deliberately dragged his heels onreplacing 3 leavers and clearly instructing the guy to do all of the work that had been logged on his own.

The tone of the " chat" quickly changed and the director said he convened the discussion as he was concerend for the safety of someone doing so many miles and working such long hours-he couldn't explain why he needed an accountant to relay such a message and denied that he was going to question the legality of the expenses. 

This all goes to show that a highly recognised professional was also a total c*nt who chose to ignore his own award-winning proecedures when it suited him if he wanted to bump someone he didnt like

as for your footnote, you actually concurred with the main point of Ricky's post

But haters gotta hate, eh?

 

You answered the first part yourself. This was nothing to do with any award won the previous year. ETA. Your example is also of an individual. NOT a company.

I don't hate anyone. I do call out people if I believe they are spouting nonsense. Not hatred. Simply observation.

As for the footnote.

Where in that post did Mr Mitty suggest anything? He asked a question. A question that's actually the very one that had been asked by the OP. Once again posting for the sake of posting.

Edited by stlucifer

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37 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

You answered the first part yourself. This was nothing to do with any award won the previous year. ETA. Your example is also of an individual. NOT a company.

I don't hate anyone. I do call out people if I believe they are spouting nonsense. Not hatred. Simply observation.

As for the footnote.

Where in that post did Mr Mitty suggest anything? He asked a question. A question that's actually the very one that had been asked by the OP.

Once again posting for the sake of posting.

The last sentence is one that certainly applies to yourself. 

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

It's a bit pervy for a 70 year old to be watching stuff like that Ricky never mind posting it.

I feel slightly soiled thinking about it. Brrrrr.

Very enjoyable watching young people having fun.  Almost like going to a football match. 

Hands Up,  Baby,  Hands Up if you like St Mirren. 

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2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

 

Hands Up,  Baby,  Hands Up if you like St Mirren. 

I'm not sure I want to know WHERE. your hands have been my friend. :lol:

70 year olds talking about sex gives me dry boak and both the heebies and the jeebies.

There might be a business opportunity here though.

Food for thought Ricky.....

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16 hours ago, stlucifer said:

You answered the first part yourself. This was nothing to do with any award won the previous year. ETA. Your example is also of an individual. NOT a company.

I don't hate anyone. I do call out people if I believe they are spouting nonsense. Not hatred. Simply observation.

As for the footnote.

Where in that post did Mr Mitty suggest anything? He asked a question. A question that's actually the very one that had been asked by the OP. Once again posting for the sake of posting.

I will only add that tagging someone with a disparaging name, whether referring to them directly or indirectly, is not exactly a sign of love and admiration.  if you don't like his point, fair enough-but like many posters you go for the man in equal measure.

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Oh god I'd forgotten all about that nonsense.
I used to be a software engineer and I was lucky enough to be around when we at least tried to ensure our products were designed and properly tested before being released to the public. The agile philosophy means you test it in the marketplace with the aim of getting money in early so you can fund the repairs. I just couldn't work in that sort of job now. I don't know how anyone can. I remember a few folk in the office getting all excited about this Agile shite. I remember a very strong push to introduce something called "Pair Programming" where you code in pairs with one person watching the coder. Murder would have been committed if anyone had tried to do that with me. :lol:
People might not realise it but this appears to be the philosophy used with Universal Credit.


Agile, where I work, is just analysing, building and testing small bits at a time, as opposed to doing all the analysis up front, then all the build, then test the whole thing, only to find your analysis at the start wasn’t right!

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2 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 


Agile, where I work, is just analysing, building and testing small bits at a time, as opposed to doing all the analysis up front, then all the build, then test the whole thing, only to find your analysis at the start wasn’t right! emoji1.png
 

Why would you start coding until you had analysed what the final product was supposed to do and had sign off from your clients?

Can you imagine sky scrapers, bridges or aircraft being designed using the same philosophy?

Agile was invented because software engineers are basically not very good at their jobs on the whole.

You know what it's like. A new product idea comes in, software engineers spend about 20 minuntes designing it and then 18 months coding, 3 years debugging etc.

It's the wild west out there. Anyone can do it. Agile is a misguided way of controlling this but it fails because it tries to deal with the symptom rather than the root cause. It assumes coders are crap and can never be trusted to be good.

The problem is that as your project adds more features and functionality, the code structure starts to disintegrate.

Customers see endlessly buggy software which needs constant cuddling to get it to stay afloat.

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So much cringe...

Whilst I never speak negatively about st.mirren I never would ,or fellow fans either ,i think this topic has left me laughing to myself.cringe is the correct word for the bulk of this.I wonder what Jim Clunie or Ricky Macfarlane used during the most successful time in our history.I also think that footballers drive there selves on (our own Scotland captain being an example). I think the motivation for any footballer should be to be respected by his football peers and an honest performance ethic for the supporters he represents young and old ,rich and poor,because everyone that gives his time and money to follow st.mirren deserves that.As for motivating ideas at work,nonsense,I have worked all over the world and I am at present in Kazakhstan,my motivation was fear of being unemployed and feed my family motivation enough,same for our team.
Before you rip in to me it’s my first day off in 29 and on my 8th pint COYS

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1 hour ago, Gunni Thorfason said:


Whilst I never speak negatively about st.mirren I never would ,or fellow fans either ,i think this topic has left me laughing to myself.cringe is the correct word for the bulk of this.I wonder what Jim Clunie or Ricky Macfarlane used during the most successful time in our history.I also think that footballers drive there selves on (our own Scotland captain being an example). I think the motivation for any footballer should be to be respected by his football peers and an honest performance ethic for the supporters he represents young and old ,rich and poor,because everyone that gives his time and money to follow st.mirren deserves that.As for motivating ideas at work,nonsense,I have worked all over the world and I am at present in Kazakhstan,my motivation was fear of being unemployed and feed my family motivation enough,same for our team.
Before you rip in to me it’s my first day off in 29 and on my 8th pint COYS

And yet you still type more sense than Pricky.

Go figure.

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1 hour ago, Gunni Thorfason said:


Whilst I never speak negatively about st.mirren I never would ,or fellow fans either ,i think this topic has left me laughing to myself.cringe is the correct word for the bulk of this.I wonder what Jim Clunie or Ricky Macfarlane used during the most successful time in our history.I also think that footballers drive there selves on (our own Scotland captain being an example). I think the motivation for any footballer should be to be respected by his football peers and an honest performance ethic for the supporters he represents young and old ,rich and poor,because everyone that gives his time and money to follow st.mirren deserves that.As for motivating ideas at work,nonsense,I have worked all over the world and I am at present in Kazakhstan,my motivation was fear of being unemployed and feed my family motivation enough,same for our team.
Before you rip in to me it’s my first day off in 29 and on my 8th pint COYS

Much is it a pint there?and what is the local beer called,cheers 

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Why would you start coding until you had analysed what the final product was supposed to do and had sign off from your clients?
Can you imagine sky scrapers, bridges or aircraft being designed using the same philosophy?
Agile was invented because software engineers are basically not very good at their jobs on the whole.
You know what it's like. A new product idea comes in, software engineers spend about 20 minuntes designing it and then 18 months coding, 3 years debugging etc.
It's the wild west out there. Anyone can do it. Agile is a misguided way of controlling this but it fails because it tries to deal with the symptom rather than the root cause. It assumes coders are crap and can never be trusted to be good.
The problem is that as your project adds more features and functionality, the code structure starts to disintegrate.
Customers see endlessly buggy software which needs constant cuddling to get it to stay afloat.


Yeh, I’ve used the sky scrapers and bridges analogy myself before!

Agile project I’m working on knows what the final product needs to do and plenty of analysis has gone into it.

But rather than build it all in one go and test it all in one go, it’s being built and tested in small bits.

For this specific bit of software, it works well. End user is involved at every stage for sign off.

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brilliant,steaming for £20

Absolutely on the backside it was 15 euros a pint when I was working in Paris 6 weeks ago,anyways I’m very lucky to be in the position I’m in,I wish it was Paisley tomorrow for the Aberdeen game,I’m sure we will perform,let’s hope everybody can enjoy the festive season and enjoy being in the premier league,it was an unbelievable surprise to win the league last year,albeit we have had a bad start,but we are only 6 points off of 9th,there’s nothing like being a buddie

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17 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I'm not sure I want to know WHERE. your hands have been my friend. :lol:

70 year olds talking about sex gives me dry boak and both the heebies and the jeebies.

There might be a business opportunity here though.

Food for thought Ricky.....

I'm talking about people dancing and singing Okay and you know it.   Theatre and performing arts are amongst my interests.  Wash your mind out.  

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1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 


Yeh, I’ve used the sky scrapers and bridges analogy myself before! emoji1.png

Agile project I’m working on knows what the final product needs to do and plenty of analysis has gone into it.

But rather than build it all in one go and test it all in one go, it’s being built and tested in small bits.

For this specific bit of software, it works well. End user is involved at every stage for sign off.
 

That is not Agile development then. Someone is lying to you. :lol:

Agile development is specifically about being able to code WITHOUT having that firm knowledge of final and unmoveable final product description. It's all about the brutally stupid idea of allowing changing requirements while you are coding and testing.

I do agree that the way you are doing it is exactly as it should be.

Edited by oaksoft

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That is not Agile development then. Someone is lying to you. :lol:
Agile development is specifically about being able to code WITHOUT having that firm knowledge of final and unmoveable final product description. It's all about the brutally stupid idea of allowing changing requirements while you are coding and testing.
I do agree that the way you are doing it is exactly as it should be.


Okay, so what we are developing is a quote system for a financial services company.

So, there already is one and we know all the rules and regulations that have to be followed. Our task is to build a new one that runs much faster, is simpler and will take less resource to maintain and change in future.

It’s agile in that, rather than do ALL analysis up front, build in a oner and test all at the end, we’ve just been doing small chunks at a time.

So, we’ll have some feature of the system that we know we can build in the space of, say a fortnight or a month. We’ll do some analysis to come up with an idea to make the calculation simpler. We’ll find out where we need to get data from. We’ll go through it with the developer. They, themselves can come up with ideas. It’ll get built and the tested. While testing we may decide to make changes.

We’re a small team and we have no real dependencies on other teams or departments.

It works very well on this type of software.

Same company is building a brand new admin system at same time. Tried agile on that. Hasn’t really been working. Back to the skyscraper analogy IMO. IT director has already been sacked and £ millions spent. It’s too big and too many ‘scrums’ with interlinking dependencies.

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