St Mirren v Aberdeen 15/12/18

[Guest TPAFKATS]

What's your view then, should he stay in situ if we are still bottom two at end of February.

Yes, unless there's been some kind of unforeseen event or issue.

He should get a transfer window, the chance to build his squad. End of Feb would be 6 or less games later.

So he can relegate is with 34 league games at his disposal and still keep his job?

I suspect when/if pish comes to shite, and we are going down, that will not be the opinion of the majority.

  

 

You are suggesting that end of February is too soon, and given the season ends by end of April/first week May then that would imply you believe he should be here till then, even if in 34 games he can't get us to at least eleventh and win play off.

Or do you believe if he relegated us he should go?

You are at least consistent with your inconsistency.

 

I'll try and keep it simple - he should get the rest of the season including a transfer window to try and sort out the utter shambles of a squad that he has taken on.

I'm hoping he can keep us up.

 

[Sweeper07]

17 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

1. There is no such thing as a credible rumour ffs, there are just rumours. Re: your 12 points from nearest two teams theory, we would need something like a 300% improvement to achieve that, and as reported, Dundee are after as many quality players as us, with a better budget, and Hamilton are much more settled and proven capable of riding out these situations.

this endless talk of "Stubbs players being shite" cant be improving the morale of Jones, Hodson, Edwards, Willock, Rogers, Lyness etc.. who until we know different, we are relying on to keep us up. You might want to reflect on that!

1. Of course there is - governments and businesses use them all the time. These are different from made up stuff that is gossiped about to try and create a news story or just to be nasty.

2. Not sure where you found the exact 300 % measure on the improvement scale - bottom line is we need to make more chances, score more goals and keep it tighter at the back - all of which is possible with better players playing like a team with purpose and the much needed ability for this level. We don't need to be world beaters, just beat the other 2 dross teams either side of us.

3. You have no idea that Dee with have a better budget - I believe based on a credible rumour from inside their place that they stretched out uncomfortably taking Miller. 

4. "Hamilton are more settled and proven capable to ride out of situations" - so were we for seasons until the ar*e fell out of our Premiership days. Other than their points against us - they have had a truly dreadful season. If we can stand up to them physically, with new better players, and score goals better than we currently do, then we could beat them for sure. You think they are going to improve more than us?

5. You think Stubbs players are not shite - Heaton, King, Willock, Edwards, Rodgers, KP, and although there is hope that Cooke will come good - what have any of them contributed except for Edwards (who lets be honest, runs a lot but creates zilch, loses his marker regularly etc.), Rodgers (who is ropey as a 1st choice at this level), and occasionally Willock in tiny bits of games where he has not switched off.   I don't believe that Hodgson was solely a Stubbs decision (2 wks before he was sacked) - my understanding is that the need for more experienced players and the internal pressure won the day on that deal. (Why else would we focus of another Right Back?). Jones was no where near ready for 1st team action when he was thrust in early doors... funny thing is he has improved greatly, but still costs us in games like last week - giving away a needless penalty.

It is not their morale that needs improving - it is the team with better players than all of those I have listed, with the possible exception of Hodson.

Lyness was signed by Oran on the 27th Sept, Stubbs was away on the 3rd...

 

So I will reflect on this thanks...

[Bud the Baker]

6 hours ago, Sonny said:

There is a huge difference. I did not like my last boss but it never stopped me doing my work.

 

You are jumping to conclusions with no knowledge of the facts putting all the blame on a few players. I repeat - player discontent was not the reason he was sacked.

 

Well, I think it was and it's not like you really know either.

PS -Your persistent denial of the obvious makes me sympathise with your ex-boss.

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

10 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

 

Well, I think it was and it's not like you really know either.

PS -Your persistent denial of the obvious makes me sympathise with your ex-boss.

 

His signing policy ( who Stubbs wanted ) along with his abrupt manner when speaking to staff. He was not sacked because certain players were not happy Colin. 

[Bud the Baker]

Just now, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

His signing policy ( who Stubbs wanted ) along with his abrupt manner when speaking to staff. He was not sacked because certain players were not happy Colin. 

 

Ah diddums, did the little-bittle players not like Stubbsy's abrupt manner.

 

The whole summer window transfer saga was a mess from the moment Ipswich declared their interest in JR, but it wasn't all Stubbsy's fault - our CEO must take some of the blame for not pursuing the targets JR had already identified and then failing to deliver Stubbsy's "marquee signings" - it pretty clear from the targets Stubbs started to pursue once the League started that he knew we needed to bring in experienced players too.

I've never said Stubbs did a good job but the mood regarding his tenure suddenly changed in mid-August after news of the "medals in the bin" confrontation started to circulate - still it's always good to have a "Fall Guy".. 

 

[Sonny]

21 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

 

Well, I think it was and it's not like you really know either.

PS -Your persistent denial of the obvious makes me sympathise with your ex-boss.

 

It is obvious that you do not know whereas I have a lot more information than you do. And thank goodness you were not my ex boss as you jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Very difficult to converse with people like that.

[Bud the Baker]

Just now, Sonny said:

It is obvious that you do not know whereas I have a lot more information than you do. And thank goodness you were not my ex boss as you jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Very difficult to converse with people like that.

ITK Guy! 

[Sonny]

Just now, Bud the Baker said:

ITK Guy! 

In this case the answer is yes.

[Bud the Baker]

46 minutes ago, Sonny said:

In this case the answer is yes..

Sure you are! 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[Lord Pityme]

He will and should be the manager in the championship if we go down. Most agree with it also. 

I doubt very much if he takes us down most fans will want to keep him. Why would they?

[Lord Pityme]

1. Of course there is - governments and businesses use them all the time. These are different from made up stuff that is gossiped about to try and create a news story or just to be nasty.
2. Not sure where you found the exact 300 % measure on the improvement scale - bottom line is we need to make more chances, score more goals and keep it tighter at the back - all of which is possible with better players playing like a team with purpose and the much needed ability for this level. We don't need to be world beaters, just beat the other 2 dross teams either side of us.
3. You have no idea that Dee with have a better budget - I believe based on a credible rumour from inside their place that they stretched out uncomfortably taking Miller. 
4. "Hamilton are more settled and proven capable to ride out of situations" - so were we for seasons until the ar*e fell out of our Premiership days. Other than their points against us - they have had a truly dreadful season. If we can stand up to them physically, with new better players, and score goals better than we currently do, then we could beat them for sure. You think they are going to improve more than us?
5. You think Stubbs players are not shite - Heaton, King, Willock, Edwards, Rodgers, KP, and although there is hope that Cooke will come good - what have any of them contributed except for Edwards (who lets be honest, runs a lot but creates zilch, loses his marker regularly etc.), Rodgers (who is ropey as a 1st choice at this level), and occasionally Willock in tiny bits of games where he has not switched off.   I don't believe that Hodgson was solely a Stubbs decision (2 wks before he was sacked) - my understanding is that the need for more experienced players and the internal pressure won the day on that deal. (Why else would we focus of another Right Back?). Jones was no where near ready for 1st team action when he was thrust in early doors... funny thing is he has improved greatly, but still costs us in games like last week - giving away a needless penalty.
It is not their morale that needs improving - it is the team with better players than all of those I have listed, with the possible exception of Hodson.
Lyness was signed by Oran on the 27th Sept, Stubbs was away on the 3rd...
 
So I will reflect on this thanks...

It's our record against Dundee, Hamilton and Motherwell this season that would need to improve by 200-300%.
A rumour is just that, a rumour!
Interesting to read it's not just Stubbs you blame for poor signings ('re Hodson). Ate you blaming Oran and the board too? Lol

[Lord Pityme]

His signing policy ( who Stubbs wanted ) along with his abrupt manner when speaking to staff. He was not sacked because certain players were not happy Colin. 

Of course he was sacked because our snowflakes didn't like him. Now they have just melted away.

[Lord Pityme]

In this case the answer is yes.

[emoji1]

[melmac]

Whilst we can blame Stubbs for the duff recruitment, ultimate blame lies with the Chairman and Fitzy for appointing him in the first instance. From the off, anybody with any nouce could see that Stubbs was not the correct appointment.

So we had the sublime (JR) to the ridiculous (AS), our very own Brexit happened and we'll be picking up the pieces for seasons to come.

OK deserves as long as it takes.

[Lord Pityme]

Whilst we can blame Stubbs for the duff recruitment, ultimate blame lies with the Chairman and Fitzy for appointing him in the first instance. From the off, anybody with any nouce could see that Stubbs was not the correct appointment.
So we had the sublime (JR) to the ridiculous (AS), our very own Brexit happened and we'll be picking up the pieces for seasons to come.
OK deserves as long as it takes.

But why does Oran deserve as long as it takes? What is different in real terms that shows we are, or will improve significantly?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Quick Question, Do roundabouts go round and round ? 

[Sweeper07]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

2 hours ago, melmac said:

Whilst we can blame Stubbs for the duff recruitment, ultimate blame lies with the Chairman and Fitzy for appointing him in the first instance. From the off, anybody with any nouce could see that Stubbs was not the correct appointment.
So we had the sublime (JR) to the ridiculous (AS), our very own Brexit happened and we'll be picking up the pieces for seasons to come.
OK deserves as long as it takes.

But why does Oran deserve as long as it takes? What is different in real terms that shows we are, or will improve significantly?

Do you read other peoples posts properly?

Have a wee read back through - this time note everything, not just 1 or 2 things that jump out at you.

If you still don't get it - at least you tried.

 

[melmac]

The club need stability. We can ill afford to (1) bring in / off load 20 players every January; and (2) change management every 18 months.

[Sonny]

4 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Sure you are! 

You can fool yourself all you want with your wrong assumptions but it is disingenuous to spread them as facts. By all means live in your fantasy land. Meantime I am content to know what I know as facts and not my imagination. 

 

[Bud the Baker]

16 hours ago, Sonny said:

You can fool yourself all you want with your wrong assumptions but it is disingenuous to spread them as facts. By all means live in your fantasy land. Meantime I am content to know what I know as facts and not my imagination. 

 

Hang on to those dreams.

[Lord Pityme]

Do you read other peoples posts properly?
Have a wee read back through - this time note everything, not just 1 or 2 things that jump out at you.
If you still don't get it - at least you tried.
 

So you've got nothing to justify why Oran should get as long as it takes?

On another note, given Oran was actually passed up for the job in favour of many posters new pantomime villain Stubbs (used to be Rae). We might find come season end why he didn't get it first time round. He has an enormous task to justify why we went to all the expense of paying off Stubbs & co, paying Oran's compo and overfilling the backroom team with so much experience and knowledge.
That is a heck of a lot of money invested in him, for as yet no visible return!
Huge responsibility.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

What a f**king drama queen

[Sweeper07]

8 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

So you've got nothing to justify why Oran should get as long as it takes?

On another note, given Oran was actually passed up for the job in favour of many posters new pantomime villain Stubbs (used to be Rae). We might find come season end why he didn't get it first time round. He has an enormous task to justify why we went to all the expense of paying off Stubbs & co, paying Oran's compo and overfilling the backroom team with so much experience and knowledge.
That is a heck of a lot of money invested in him, for as yet no visible return!
Huge responsibility. 

I asked you to read what had already been explained to you - but you still don't get it - REALLY (or are you just feeling lonely?).

Oran needs time to get in players to replace Stubb's diddies - (See Willock now joins Coulson and BM out the door) His hands are still tied with players in the squad, signed by Stubbs and left over from last season who are not good enough at this level. Even the best managers would struggle with this lot. Stubbs added to our woes in stead of taking us up a level.

Once Oran has decent players in and a chance to shape how he wants them to play - then we can give him some fair judgment. Stubbs got that, but failed miserably and we are still dealing with the consequences of that.

Oran got passed 1st time around because the Premiership is a step up from where he previously managed and our BOD were dazzled by the idea that "someone of Stubb's calbre" (As a player, clearly not as a manager) would be a better option - the were so wrong - end off.

"His" investment in staff of all types, needs time to be fruitful, but we ARE already reaping improvements having signed 4 players out of the window - some of the backroom staff were brought in by the BOD (Gus for 1) as part of the clubs LONGER TERM plans.

The line I highlighted above - there was a heck of a lot invested in Stubb's too - it produced a very negative return. Oran will do much better than this - if not he will be sacked - that is how it goes....

I'm out

Edited December 21, 2018 by Sweeper07

[Lord Pityme]

2 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

I asked you to read what had already been explained to you - but you still don't get it - REALLY (or are you just feeling lonely?).

Oran needs time to get in players to replace Stubb's diddies - (See Willock now joins Coulson and BM out the door) His hands are still tied with players in the squad, signed by Stubbs and left over from last season who are not good enough at this level. Even the best managers would struggle with this lot. Stubbs added to our woes in stead of taking us up a level.

Once Oran has decent players in and a chance to shape how he wants them to play - then we can give him some fair judgment. Stubbs got that, but failed miserably and we are still dealing with the consequences of that.

Oran got passed 1st time around because the Premiership is a step up from where he previously managed and our BOD were dazzled by the idea that "someone of Stubb's calbre" (As a player, clearly not as a manager) would be a better option - the were so wrong - end off.

"His" investment in staff of all types, needs time to be fruitful, but we ARE already reaping improvements having signed 4 players out of the window - some of the backroom staff were brought in by the BOD (Gus for 1) as part of the clubs LONGER TERM plans.

The line I highlighted above - there was a heck of a lot invested in Stubb's too - it produced a very negative return. Oran will do much better than this - if not he will be sacked - that is how it goes....

I'm out

I like that.... last line. It is nearly 2019 after all, live and let live, eh?

[Sonny]

On 12/21/2018 at 9:37 AM, Bud the Baker said:

Hang on to those dreams.

You are the dreamer Bud. I have two friends who are current employees of the Club and I sit next to an ex-employee at all Home games. A near neighbour is an ex-player who still has contacts and I went to school with an ex-chairman who I see occasionally. I am happy with my sources. But you keep on making stuff up if it makes your day go better. Just keep it to yourself.