Homelessness Deaths

[oaksoft]

39 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

There's also plenty of empty houses and also land that the big 5 housing companies buy and bank without building on. Its in their interest to keep demand higher than supply as it keeps prices higher.

There's no real will in government to do much about the housing issues in the UK.

Dont go kidding yourself. There is no genuine will amongst the general population either, except at a couple of times a year when people drop a tin of beans at a Foodbank or take part in one of those ridiculous sleep-outs and then go home smugly thinking they've cured the problem.

Homelessness is not just caused by a lack of a house and it wont be solved by simply homing these people either. Do you seriously think that after hundreds of years of homelessness that you are the first person to think things like "just gee them a hoose. simples!"? Here's a hint. If some of the finest minds in the country haven't been able to solve this what makes you think you have the answer?

More than half of those deaths are suicide and drug overdoses. It has happened under the Tories, Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems and will contiue as long as there are humans with chaotic lives. If you think any government has caused either of these things then you are dafter than I thought. For the love of god man, engage your brain.

[stlucifer]

7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Dont go kidding yourself. There is no genuine will amongst the general population either, except at a couple of times a year when people drop a tin of beans at a Foodbank or take part in one of those ridiculous sleep-outs and then go home smugly thinking they've cured the problem.

Homelessness is not just caused by a lack of a house and it wont be solved by simply homing these people either. Do you seriously think that after hundreds of years of homelessness that you are the first person to think things like "just gee them a hoose. simples!"? Here's a hint. If some of the finest minds in the country haven't been able to solve this what makes you think you have the answer?

More than half of those deaths are suicide and drug overdoses. It has happened under the Tories, Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems and will contiue as long as there are humans with chaotic lives. If you think any government has caused either of these things then you are dafter than I thought. For the love of god man, engage your brain.

I agree with a lot of what you say here Oaksoft but Government has a role to play to reduce the effects. While a lot of the deaths are attributable to self inflicted causes there are many where the blame can be laid at the feet of those in power. No one can eliminate every instance but the powers that be must take some responsibility for not doing anything in their power to limit the casualties.

[oaksoft]

9 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I agree with a lot of what you say here Oaksoft but Government has a role to play to reduce the effects. While a lot of the deaths are attributable to self inflicted causes there are many where the blame can be laid at the feet of those in power. No one can eliminate every instance but the powers that be must take some responsibility for not doing anything in their power to limit the casualties.

Suicide is a personal choice. You can't hold our government responsible for the actions of an individual in this regard.

Not every individual can be saved from themselves..

Edited December 22, 2018 by oaksoft

[stlucifer]

27 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Suicide is a personal choice. You can't hold our government responsible for the actions of an individual in this regard.

Not every individual can be saved from themselves..

I don't know about you but I just don't know WHY anyone would come to the conclusion that death is better than life but the government could certainly help by reducing the reasons for people actually ending up in the situation where the choice was actually there.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I don't know about you but I just don't know WHY anyone would come to the conclusion that death is better than life but the government could certainly help by reducing the reasons for people actually ending up in the situation where the choice was actually there.

Oaksoft has shown many times that he lacks empathy.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Dont go kidding yourself. There is no genuine will amongst the general population either, except at a couple of times a year when people drop a tin of beans at a Foodbank or take part in one of those ridiculous sleep-outs and then go home smugly thinking they've cured the problem.

Homelessness is not just caused by a lack of a house and it wont be solved by simply homing these people either. Do you seriously think that after hundreds of years of homelessness that you are the first person to think things like "just gee them a hoose. simples!"? Here's a hint. If some of the finest minds in the country haven't been able to solve this what makes you think you have the answer?

More than half of those deaths are suicide and drug overdoses. It has happened under the Tories, Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems and will contiue as long as there are humans with chaotic lives. If you think any government has caused either of these things then you are dafter than I thought. For the love of god man, engage your brain.

Chaotic lives?

Chaotic f**king post from you. What a ramble that is.

You missed my post about the guy at Westminster sleeping rough as he couldn't afford a roof over his head.

What is chaotic is the system that condones this.

 

For the love of God man?

Stop being such a drama queen you condescending twat.

 

[Hendo]

1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

3 hours ago, stlucifer said:

I don't know about you but I just don't know WHY anyone would come to the conclusion that death is better than life but the government could certainly help by reducing the reasons for people actually ending up in the situation where the choice was actually there.

Oaksoft has shown many times that he lacks empathy.

Oaksofts probable diagnosis is narcissistic personality disorder, in which case he's more to be pittied than scorned.

Either that or he's just a c##t.

[Eric Arthur Blair]

2 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

For the love of God man?

I know it's the time of year for believing in fictional characters (like the one who comes down chimneys), but there's no need to add to the confusion.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

13 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Dont go kidding yourself. There is no genuine will amongst the general population either, except at a couple of times a year when people drop a tin of beans at a Foodbank or take part in one of those ridiculous sleep-outs and then go home smugly thinking they've cured the problem.

Many individuals give up their own time to work in food banks for free. Many individuals and businesses contribute food to food-banks on a regular basis. my business is one of them.

You seriously think people want to be living on the streets in this freezing cold winter ?

Homelessness is not just caused by a lack of a house and it wont be solved by simply homing these people either. Do you seriously think that after hundreds of years of homelessness that you are the first person to think things like "just gee them a hoose. simples!"? Here's a hint. If some of the finest minds in the country haven't been able to solve this what makes you think you have the answer?

No address means you get no government help that's one of the problems that keep homeless souls in limbo. this is not hundred years ago this is 2018 going into 2019. It's really sad but a fact of life people such as yourself are out there have not a care in the world outside their wee protective bubble.

More than half of those deaths are suicide and drug overdoses. It has happened under the Tories, Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems and will contiue as long as there are humans with chaotic lives. If you think any government has caused either of these things then you are dafter than I thought. For the love of god man, engage your brain.

Even if half are suicide through self abuse that's fine is it ? Wash your hands Oak and turn the other way if it makes you feel better. God forbid it never happens that a child of yours does not fall into a hole of drugs and alcohol then end up taking their own life these suicides are someones child, brother, sister. So what of the other half the 352 souls that die from living out in the freezing weather. The facts are homelessness is a growing problem in the uk figures prove this. The Scottish government at last is looking at tackling the problem thanks to organisations and people who give up their time to help lost souls in the streets. Your heartless Oak in a world of I'm all right Jack to F with everyone else. Enjoy the Christmas dinner maybe just maybe give a wee thought to those living in the streets with no heat or food.

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Isle Of Bute Saint

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Take a wee bit out Oaksoft to watch all the self abusers in Glasgow.

 

[oaksoft]

 

15 hours ago, stlucifer said:

I don't know about you but I just don't know WHY anyone would come to the conclusion that death is better than life but the government could certainly help by reducing the reasons for people actually ending up in the situation where the choice was actually there.

I am not sure what any government can do though. Beyond a certain point there is very little which ccan be done. A government is there to set the general guidelines by which we live but they operate at a macro scale by necessity. It's up to people to then adopt personal responsibilities withing those constraints. We have too many people not prepared to accept that responsibility and they will be finding things very tough as they make the transition onto UC as an example.

The problem is those with chaotic lives. What specifically can a government do to prevent suicides and drug abuse?

Local people could stop these problems happening on their doorsteps if they really wanted to. That's the only way it can be done IMO but the will is not there on a sustainable basis. Too many simply want to wash their hands of the problem and use it as a weapon to hit the Tories with. The will of local people is simply too sporadic.

Edited December 23, 2018 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

In case you guys are wondering, I won't be responding directly to either the personal abuse or the sanctimonious shite posted above in response to my earlier posts. Save your breath guys. I see straight through people like you and I am not interested.

If people decide to stop acting like animals and behave like adults then I'll be happy to re-engage. It's up to you.

Edited December 23, 2018 by oaksoft

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

8 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

In case you guys are wondering, I won't be responding directly to either the personal abuse or the sanctimonious shite posted above in response to my earlier posts. Save your breath guys. I see straight through people like you and I am not interested.

So you don't take a few moments out to watch the video that proves your self indulgence mind is wrong ? Nothing like not taking the truth in. 

[DougJamie]

16 hours ago, stlucifer said:

You really are being silly now in a failed attempt to prove something that just isn't true. I had NOTHING to do with the tories winning. I cast my vote against them. As did more than 50% of the population. You may be partly responsible by either voting for them or not voting at all but don't try to absolve yourself by accusing EVERY other person who voted of being so.

No matter how many times you claim this it will not make it true.

Your wasting your time. BTB is trying to be a smartass with the collective "we". As a result we collectively think he talking total "wee"

[DougJamie]

40 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

In case you guys are wondering, I won't be responding directly to either the personal abuse or the sanctimonious shite posted above in response to my earlier posts. Save your breath guys. I see straight through people like you and I am not interested.

If people decide to stop acting like animals and behave like adults then I'll be happy to re-engage. It's up to you.

The only person being transparent is you. Check the subject matter try not to put people in boxes. Unless you have been on a street begging for food and shelter you have no idea how they suffer. Away back to your cosy self indulgent life you total w@nker...

[Guest TPAFKATS]

In case you guys are wondering, I won't be responding directly to either the personal abuse or the sanctimonious shite posted above in response to my earlier posts. Save your breath guys. I see straight through people like you and I am not interested.
If people decide to stop acting like animals and behave like adults then I'll be happy to re-engage. It's up to you.

I always try to argue my point however in this case I'm so far out of my depth...

[antrin]

12 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

I am not sure what any government can do though.......

The problem is those with chaotic lives. What specifically can a government do to prevent suicides and drug abuse?

 

Governments, in theory, are elected to enable society to be organised in a way that protects the weaker, the chaotic among us, to be better able to cope.  It should be there to help the weak.

the current government is hell bent on doing the opposite.  Universal Credits abused, distorted and arbitrarily removed; Disability payments stopped; Interference with the setting up of food banks then using them for photo-opps to pretend they care....  all versions of governmental neglect that push some people towards suicide and drug abuse.

no need for you to “be sure” of what a government COULD DO, as long as you’re aware of what they are turning a blind eye to - just as you appear to prefer to do.

[oaksoft]

7 hours ago, antrin said:

Governments, in theory, are elected to enable society to be organised in a way that protects the weaker, the chaotic among us, to be better able to cope.  It should be there to help the weak.

the current government is hell bent on doing the opposite.  Universal Credits abused, distorted and arbitrarily removed; Disability payments stopped; Interference with the setting up of food banks then using them for photo-opps to pretend they care....  all versions of governmental neglect that push some people towards suicide and drug abuse.

no need for you to “be sure” of what a government COULD DO, as long as you’re aware of what they are turning a blind eye to - just as you appear to prefer to do.

You are confusing the philosophy with the practical implementation of that philosophy.

If you want to believe the hysterical nonsense that the Tories somehow want to neglect the poor leading to deaths and suicides then there's not much mileage in continuing the conversation.

A government should allow people to make their own life choices, provide the framework to allow that to happen and then back off and leave people to get on with their lives. Nanny doesn't know best. Nobody knows how to lead your life better than you do. That requires each individual to develop personal responsibility for themselves. You don't encourage that by trapping people in a benefits system which pays them up to almost £2k per month in many circumstances which is where we have been for years. Incredibly there used to be no real cap on what you could claim. The benefits system is there to provide the bare minimum to allow each individual to pick themselves up and start again. It cannot be a lifestyle choice and it has become so for too many. Not only is this ridiculous, it diverts money away from those who need it the most and the country can't afford it.

 Of course there will always be chaotic people but no government of any hue has ever managed to prevent that in the history of this country. To suddenly accuse the Tories of being neglectful in this regard is intellectually bankrupt.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

36 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You are confusing the philosophy with the practical implementation of that philosophy.

If you want to believe the hysterical nonsense that the Tories somehow want to neglect the poor leading to deaths and suicides then there's not much mileage in continuing the conversation.

A government should allow people to make their own life choices, provide the framework to allow that to happen and then back off and leave people to get on with their lives. Nanny doesn't know best. Nobody knows how to lead your life better than you do. That requires each individual to develop personal responsibility for themselves. You don't encourage that by trapping people in a benefits system which pays them up to almost £2k per month in many circumstances which is where we have been for years. Incredibly there used to be no real cap on what you could claim. The benefits system is there to provide the bare minimum to allow each individual to pick themselves up and start again. It cannot be a lifestyle choice and it has become so for too many. Not only is this ridiculous, it diverts money away from those who need it the most and the country can't afford it.

 Of course there will always be chaotic people but no government of any hue has ever managed to prevent that in the history of this country. To suddenly accuse the Tories of being neglectful in this regard is intellectually bankrupt.

Are you typing from a different star system ?  Seriously you seem so far from reality then again most Tory boy clubs do.

[Cornwall_Saint]

42 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You are confusing the philosophy with the practical implementation of that philosophy.

If you want to believe the hysterical nonsense that the Tories somehow want to neglect the poor leading to deaths and suicides then there's not much mileage in continuing the conversation.

A government should allow people to make their own life choices, provide the framework to allow that to happen and then back off and leave people to get on with their lives. Nanny doesn't know best. Nobody knows how to lead your life better than you do. That requires each individual to develop personal responsibility for themselves. You don't encourage that by trapping people in a benefits system which pays them up to almost £2k per month in many circumstances which is where we have been for years. Incredibly there used to be no real cap on what you could claim. The benefits system is there to provide the bare minimum to allow each individual to pick themselves up and start again. It cannot be a lifestyle choice and it has become so for too many. Not only is this ridiculous, it diverts money away from those who need it the most and the country can't afford it.

 Of course there will always be chaotic people but no government of any hue has ever managed to prevent that in the history of this country. To suddenly accuse the Tories of being neglectful in this regard is intellectually bankrupt.

Many people work full time but still have to claim benefits to survive. Full time workers don’t want to rely on this, but their pay is so shit it results in this.

UC is a disaster as well. All this nonsense about “it pays to work”, it’s a scam. You end up in work but you are no better off financially as what you earn is pretty much taken from the benefit side of things. All it does is allow the Tories to claim Unemployment is down and the welfare budget is down, while nobody is actually better off. There needs to be more of a gradient in regards to the loss in benefits when you start earning, if people were actually better off working then the lazier among us would be more inclined to work. 

As for homeless, yes it’s always been a problem.  But it has shot up to ridiculous levels under the Tory leadership. Rents are getting too expensive, the low paid can’t afford to live properly, there are many factors here. I myself was six days from homelessness this year, having been served two months notice after my ex moved out and the house we rented was too much for myself to stay at long term. Two months isn’t much time to find somewhere else. I work two jobs, 7 days a week. Luckily in my place I managed to find a suitable place and received the keys 6 days before the deadline. So would it be my fault if I did end up homeless? There are more factors with homelessness than lazy, unemployed drug addicts.

[oaksoft]

29 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Many people work full time but still have to claim benefits to survive. Full time workers don’t want to rely on this, but their pay is so shit it results in this.

UC is a disaster as well. All this nonsense about “it pays to work”, it’s a scam. You end up in work but you are no better off financially as what you earn is pretty much taken from the benefit side of things. All it does is allow the Tories to claim Unemployment is down and the welfare budget is down, while nobody is actually better off. There needs to be more of a gradient in regards to the loss in benefits when you start earning, if people were actually better off working then the lazier among us would be more inclined to work. 

As for homeless, yes it’s always been a problem.  But it has shot up to ridiculous levels under the Tory leadership. Rents are getting too expensive, the low paid can’t afford to live properly, there are many factors here. I myself was six days from homelessness this year, having been served two months notice after my ex moved out and the house we rented was too much for myself to stay at long term. Two months isn’t much time to find somewhere else. I work two jobs, 7 days a week. Luckily in my place I managed to find a suitable place and received the keys 6 days before the deadline. So would it be my fault if I did end up homeless? There are more factors with homelessness than lazy, unemployed drug addicts.

That bit in bold. What on earth are you talking about? What a bizarre thing to say.

This is a discussion about the Tories causing homelessness. Are you blaiming the Tories for you splitting up with your girlfriend?

As for those requiring UC whilst working, are you claiming UC now?

I also note that the National Audit Office figures for homelessness show that although there have been rises recently, the overall figures are on a par with where they were 20 years ago under the last Labour government so I have no idea where you are getting this idea that numbers are at ridiculous levels due to the Tories. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

Interesting that the main point on here is about suicides and homelessness soaring under the Tories.

Problem is that the National Audit Office figures for homelessness show that rates are historically pretty low.

Additionally the Office for National Statistics show that suicide rates have been reducing for years and continue to do so.

People are simply lying about the effect of Tory policies. What kind of scummy person lies about something like suicides to try and make political points? 

[Cornwall_Saint]

43 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

That bit in bold. What on earth are you talking about? What a bizarre thing to say.

This is a discussion about the Tories causing homelessness. Are you blaiming the Tories for you splitting up with your girlfriend?

As for those requiring UC whilst working, are you claiming UC now?

I also note that the National Audit Office figures for homelessness show that although there have been rises recently, the overall figures are on a par with where they were 20 years ago under the last Labour government so I have no idea where you are getting this idea that numbers are at ridiculous levels due to the Tories. 

I am blaming the Tories for allowing the renting sector to go up to ridiculous prices. Regardless of who’s been in government before, they’ve been the main party for 8 years now and done nothing to stop renting prices skyrocketing.

I don’t claim UC, but as I say I’m working two jobs, seven days a week. If I only had one of those jobs, I would have to claim UC as the money from one just isn’t enough to survive. I’d then have the problem of not receiving any more money, as any overtime I would do would just be lost from the benefits side of things, which helps the government out (I pay more tax, claim less benefit) but leaves me in the same position.

If you are pointing out that we are on a par on homelessness from 20 years ago, and there has been recent rises, that tells me that somewhere in the last 20 years that statistic had improved and things weren’t as bad. Now we are back where we started because the government doesn’t give a toss about the low paid.

[oaksoft]

3 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

I am blaming the Tories for allowing the renting sector to go up to ridiculous prices. Regardless of who’s been in government before, they’ve been the main party for 8 years now and done nothing to stop renting prices skyrocketing.

I don’t claim UC, but as I say I’m working two jobs, seven days a week. If I only had one of those jobs, I would have to claim UC as the money from one just isn’t enough to survive. I’d then have the problem of not receiving any more money, as any overtime I would do would just be lost from the benefits side of things, which helps the government out (I pay more tax, claim less benefit) but leaves me in the same position.

If you are pointing out that we are on a par on homelessness from 20 years ago, and there has been recent rises, that tells me that somewhere in the last 20 years that statistic had improved and things weren’t as bad. Now we are back where we started because the government doesn’t give a toss about the low paid.

I'm old enough to remember that rent prices have been soaring for decades and more than one government has been involved.

When I started out I was paying about 40% of my income on rent. The minimum wage is about £7.83 per hour. For a full time job that would be about £1300 per month so in most regions of the UK a single person is going to be paying around the same sort of percentage. In that respect, nothing has changed in 30 years since I started out. My son is in a minimum wage job and is paying about 30% so he has it better than I did at his age. He has his own flat. I was flat sharing. Obviously there will be hot spots around major cities and the South West but talk of soaring rents compared to wages is a myth IMO. I can search in most areas and find something around the 40% mark. It might not be a flat on my own but when you are young you need to be prepared to muck through. All of us pretty much had to do that.

If you don't claim UC then clearly working is paying off for you so I really don't know why you brought up your own situation when talking about "work pays" being bullshit. I appreciate you have to work two jobs but many of us have had to do that. My wife told me she used to have 3 jobs at one point. No idea how she managed to keep that up for 2 years mind you. The bit about your overtime is exactly my point. When you pay people too much in benefits you tie them into dependency and they understandably choose the benefits because it's not working the extra overtime. This is a terrible thing IMO and it's exactly what the Tories are trying to stop. You should ALWAYS be better off with the overtime.

As for your last paragraph, you need to understand that statistics will always fluctuate because populations fluctuate. Our population has increased over the last 30 years but absolute homeless numbers are roughly the same. You have to be very careful with statistics because you can misrepresent them to suit whatever agenda you want. There's no substitute for looking at them yourself and trying to make your own mind up as I did this morning. You might make mistakes in your interpretation but that's OK. The alternative is to be fed bullshit by those with agendas.

[salmonbuddie]

Here's a great example of bullshit from someone with an agenda.

You don't encourage that by trapping people in a benefits system which pays them up to almost £2k per month in many circumstances which is where we have been for years.