mattman Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3692875/st-mirren-josh-heaton-fight-place-leave/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) I think the difficulty with Heaton's version of events is that he wasnt even getting a game under Stubbs, despite costing a fee and being supposedly a high earner. Even Kpekewa got a game ahead of him! Edited January 1, 2019 by Hendo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Hendo said: I think the difficulty with Heaton's version of events is that he wasnt even getting a game under Stubbs, despite costing a fee and being supposedly a high earner. Even Kpekewa got a game ahead of him! Agreed. Though I'm all for him spinning it however he wants to get a deal elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood-bud Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Is it possible that we have been reluctant to give Heaton appearances due to add ons in transfer fees? For example, he may have been good enough to sit on the bench and make a few appearances in the last few months, just not 50k in additional fees good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenstrieSaint Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 29 minutes ago, linwood-bud said: Is it possible that we have been reluctant to give Heaton appearances due to add ons in transfer fees? For example, he may have been good enough to sit on the bench and make a few appearances in the last few months, just not 50k in additional fees good. That makes sense. He did have his chance in the league Cup sections, and by all accounts done poorly, but hasn't been near the first team squad for a league game. Its in the big man's interest to get first team football somewhere if he wants to progress, so a loan deal would suit him nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, MenstrieSaint said: That makes sense. He did have his chance in the league Cup sections, and by all accounts done poorly, but hasn't been near the first team squad for a league game. Its in the big man's interest to get first team football somewhere if he wants to progress, so a loan deal would suit him nicely. He was on the bench v Hibs , Aberdeen in Sep/Oct ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenstrieSaint Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, billyg said: He was on the bench v Hibs , Aberdeen in Sep/Oct ! But unused? But in all fairness, nearer to the first team than I thought Was really looking forward to seeing Heaton play, was hoping for an ICT type player a sort of cross between Warren and Draper. Edited January 2, 2019 by MenstrieSaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, linwood-bud said: Is it possible that we have been reluctant to give Heaton appearances due to add ons in transfer fees? For example, he may have been good enough to sit on the bench and make a few appearances in the last few months, just not 50k in additional fees good. Certainly wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened - did you read about Oxlade-Chamberlain's mental contract at Arsenal? https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/alex-oxlade-chamberlains-bizarre-contract-13783498 Darlo might have been due a payment when he made his first league appearance. Given that the League Cup groups were glorified friendlies, there is likely to have been an exemption for those. It all makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 45 minutes ago, Magic Monkey said: Certainly wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened - did you read about Oxlade-Chamberlain's mental contract at Arsenal? https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/alex-oxlade-chamberlains-bizarre-contract-13783498 Darlo might have been due a payment when he made his first league appearance. Given that the League Cup groups were glorified friendlies, there is likely to have been an exemption for those. It all makes a lot of sense. If this was true then why would the club bother signing him at all? Same goes for Arsenal. Why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: If this was true then why would the club bother signing him at all? Same goes for Arsenal. Why bother? Because #Moneyball (uurgh)? Because we failed to scout him correctly and he wasn't quite the revelation we'd hoped for? Because Stubbs signed him and then the BoD very quickly developed massive doubts that Stubbs was the man for the job? Because we f**ked it right up? You hear stories like the AO-C one all the time so I don't think it's out the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Magic Monkey said: Because #Moneyball (uurgh)? Because we failed to scout him correctly and he wasn't quite the revelation we'd hoped for? Because Stubbs signed him and then the BoD very quickly developed massive doubts that Stubbs was the man for the job? Because we f**ked it right up? You hear stories like the AO-C one all the time so I don't think it's out the question. So what you are suggesting is that OK has effectively been barred from using him in games, whether he is good enough or not? Who is making that decision? I don't buy that for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, oaksoft said: So what you are suggesting is that OK has effectively been barred from using him in games, whether he is good enough or not? Who is making that decision? I don't buy that for a second. I suggested a few things, actually (read the whole post), and I reckon it's feasible that it's a combination of those things. A sequence something like this: > Stubbs signed a player and made assurances that we'd make loads of money off him. It'd be worth the financial gamble, especially as we have a bit of cash in the bank. Speculate to accumulate. Stubbs was a centre half; he can spot a good one a mile off, etc etc. > Except Heaton doesn't get off to a good start. He doesn't seem any better than the other guys we've got. He's not even as good as Cole Kpekawa. Plus, Stubbs is a c**t and nobody likes him. > The decision is made to cut our losses on both Stubbs and (if the rumours are believed) the additional £50k that we would owe on Heaton if he played any/many games for us. Ferdinand comes in; Heaton becomes about sixth choice on merit, even without factoring in the transfer fee. > OK is told that he'll have more money to spend on players in Jan if he can offload Heaton without playing him any more. It's not a massive decision to make - you'd be as well muddling through with the squad we have as spending that extra cash on a mediocre player. All massive speculation, of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood-bud Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I have merely suggested the possibility, no insider info to back it up. It could well be that he is simply not good enough, but I’d have thought he might have made the bench when we are playing a back 3 and have no defenders in reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Hendo said: I think the difficulty with Heaton's version of events is that he wasnt even getting a game under Stubbs, despite costing a fee and being supposedly a high earner. Even Kpekewa got a game ahead of him! Was he not injured early on - or was that after Stubbs left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, MenstrieSaint said: But unused? But in all fairness, nearer to the first team than I thought Was really looking forward to seeing Heaton play, was hoping for an ICT type player a sort of cross between Warren and Draper. Mid table championship ??? Has to be better than that or he can forget it. Don't grasp this ICT love-in some have on here. Anyone playing in their current team are probably not good enough at our level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie88 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Oran said at the Q&A night that players who weren’t applying themselves properly wouldn’t train with the first team, never mind play for them. If he’s not showing the correct attitude then he doesn’t deserve to be playing...I see all the theories above, but could Heaton just have underestimated Scottish football & showed a little arrogance, which Stubbs & Oran didn’t/don’t like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said: Mid table championship ??? Has to be better than that or he can forget it. Don't grasp this ICT love-in some have on here. Anyone playing in their current team are probably not good enough at our level. You obviously havent watched Livi on the telly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornwall_Saint Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 36 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said: Mid table championship ??? Has to be better than that or he can forget it. Don't grasp this ICT love-in some have on here. Anyone playing in their current team are probably not good enough at our level. We would probably be below them in the Championship right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, Stevie88 said: Oran said at the Q&A night that players who weren’t applying themselves properly wouldn’t train with the first team, never mind play for them. If he’s not showing the correct attitude then he doesn’t deserve to be playing... I see all the theories above, but could Heaton just have underestimated Scottish football & showed a little arrogance, which Stubbs & Oran didn’t/don’t like? Heaton is in no position to be arrogant. A part-time amateur striker with Queens Park who was half the size of Heaton got the better of him in the League Cup. On that performance he would struggle to get into a Scottish League Two first eleven. Maybe P&D amateur leagues would be a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 54 minutes ago, Stu said: Was he not injured early on - or was that after Stubbs left? He got injured in a reserve game but that was shortly after Stubbs left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 11 hours ago, mattman said: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3692875/st-mirren-josh-heaton-fight-place-leave/ Like i said, it will cost SMFC dearly to get rid of him. He is on a good wage and seems happy to keep picking it up until the club buy him out, or his contract expires. All this waffle about ten leaving is pure fantasy. Who in their right mind is going to walk away from a well paid contract for less money elsewhere? it just ain't happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, Sonny said: Heaton is in no position to be arrogant. A part-time amateur striker with Queens Park who was half the size of Heaton got the better of him in the League Cup. On that performance he would struggle to get into a Scottish League Two first eleven. Maybe P&D amateur leagues would be a starting point. For any doubters on Stubbs paying up to 75k for a guy who palyed 6 times in the 7th tier of English Footbal Beggars bekieve how much faith our BOD put in this guy ?? "Stubbs says the Buddies beat off competition from English Premier League and Championship clubs to sign the highly-rated Heaton. "I'm absolutely delighted," he said. "It's a sign of intent and I'd like to thank the board for putting their trust in me. "You only have to look at the clubs who were wanting to get Josh, and to have got him is quite a coup." Heaton added: "I can't wait to get going. The thought of playing against the big teams and striving to be the best and play first-team football was something that brought me here. "Every time I step on that park I want to win. I want to keep a clean sheet and I want our strikers to score as many goals as possible. I want to win games and I want to win trophies." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie88 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Heaton is in no position to be arrogant. A part-time amateur striker with Queens Park who was half the size of Heaton got the better of him in the League Cup. On that performance he would struggle to get into a Scottish League Two first eleven. Maybe P&D amateur leagues would be a starting point.He definitely isn’t in a position to be arrogant, absolutely not. His attitude is apparently part of the problem here & he is supposed to be one of the top earners at the club, had a bit of interest in him before he came... who knows, might of went to his head?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, DougJamie said: For any doubters on Stubbs paying up to 75k for a guy who palyed 6 times in the 7th tier of English Footbal Beggars bekieve how much faith our BOD put in this guy ?? "Stubbs says the Buddies beat off competition from English Premier League and Championship clubs to sign the highly-rated Heaton. "I'm absolutely delighted," he said. "It's a sign of intent and I'd like to thank the board for putting their trust in me. "You only have to look at the clubs who were wanting to get Josh, and to have got him is quite a coup." Heaton added: "I can't wait to get going. The thought of playing against the big teams and striving to be the best and play first-team football was something that brought me here. "Every time I step on that park I want to win. I want to keep a clean sheet and I want our strikers to score as many goals as possible. I want to win games and I want to win trophies." Two options in answer to your question. 1. Too much 2. Too little The BOD clearly lost confidence and he departed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doonhamer Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Magic Monkey said: All massive speculation, of course Not all speculation. Your comment “Plus, Stubbs is a c**t and nobody likes him.”, is one universally accepted fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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