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Lord Pityme

Plastic Saints?

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32 minutes ago, Kombibuddie said:

I am talking about the interpretation of what the "community" was that was discussed sometime ago.

A substantial part of the discussion concerned regulations, I recall Supporters Direct being asked for clarification but nonetheless, it's peoples understanding of the word "community" that sees it rearing its ugly head once again.

It is what it is, LPM's drum appears to get beat on the wider community ideology, yours on the closer knit St Mirren community.

In these debates people need to understand the difference between a subjective interpretation and what the regulation means. People can have the opinion on what the word 'community' should mean but it holds no weight in regards to breaching regulations or laws. That's where LPM completely falls apart on this topic.

He might feel the community benefit should look like X, Y & Z but that vision isn't required to be compliant. SMFC & SMISA are compliant given they can evidence (by definition) a direct and indirect community benefit. They would still be compliant even if they could only evidence one and not the other. 

He also completely falls apart by thinking fans have been mislead or lied to. the vote regarding what the funds would be used for and how they would be re-paid could not have been clearer.

There have been zero promises of free community benefits where the club would shoulder the cost, there were zero promises of universal access to every single member of the Renfrewshire community and it was not in the slightest bit hidden that the pitch would also benefit SMFC. All of which is not only acceptable from a regulatory perspective, it also is from a morality perspective according to the overwhelming majority of voting members. 

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More unfounded garbage. Very fortunate that most people simply don't pay any attention to you. Here's to SMISA still being ahead of target to deliver fan ownership and you being completely powerless to change it. Happy New Year default_clap.gif

 

LPM was (i understand) on the SMISA board that brought us Buy the Buds and you consistently deny ever being involved.

So, with what certainty can you dismiss what he has said as "unfounded garbage"

 

I am not referring to his, or anyone's interpretation of "community" that is well explained.

 

 

 

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the money will be replaced by the time the deal is completed, it has been very well documented. The target completion date isn't impacted. 
The permission of members was also achieved, it's the will of the voting majority, you don't speak for us. 
What is the "target completion date"?

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18 hours ago, Kombibuddie said:

LPM was (i understand) on the SMISA board that brought us Buy the Buds and you consistently deny ever being involved.

So, with what certainty can you dismiss what he has said as "unfounded garbage"

 

I am not referring to his, or anyone's interpretation of "community" that is well explained.

 

 

 

You don’t need to have been on the SMISA board to know it’s garbage. The items LPM has issue with are all public knowledge and there has been no wrongdoing done or found. 

If we had broken laws/ regulations we’d get punished. People often say I ‘must be linked to SMISA’ in reality I am not and not sure why anyone thinks I’d lie. 

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19 hours ago, Kombibuddie said:
On 1/3/2019 at 10:56 AM, bazil85 said:
the money will be replaced by the time the deal is completed, it has been very well documented. The target completion date isn't impacted. 
The permission of members was also achieved, it's the will of the voting majority, you don't speak for us. 

What is the "target completion date"?

10 years from the start date. I estimate we could be 2-3 years ahead of target right now depending on current numbers and premium members. 

The repayment relates to the total value of the buyout not a timescale though. The money will be repayed easily before we buy the club bar a massive fall in member numbers.

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18 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

10 years from the start date. I estimate we could be 2-3 years ahead of target right now depending on current numbers and premium members. 

The repayment relates to the total value of the buyout not a timescale though. The money will be repayed easily before we buy the club bar a massive fall in member numbers.

What plans are in place or under discussion for continuing subscriptions post aquisition? 

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1 minute ago, St.Ricky said:

What plans are in place or under discussion for continuing subscriptions post aquisition? 

Like I say I’m not in any way, shape or form linked to the SMISA committee, BTB or SMFC bar being a paying member and season ticket holder so I have no idea. 

I work in conduct and compliance risk so maybe I should take it as a complement that people think my knowledge of what’s going on is so good I must be on the inside  :lol:

I’d be more than happy to keep paying post acquisition but I know many wouldn’t which is also fine. 

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49 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Like I say I’m not in any way, shape or form linked to the SMISA committee, BTB or SMFC bar being a paying member and season ticket holder so I have no idea. 

I work in conduct and compliance risk so maybe I should take it as a complement that people think my knowledge of what’s going on is so good I must be on the inside  :lol:

I’d be more than happy to keep paying post acquisition but I know many wouldn’t which is also fine. 

At takeover Smisa will own 86% of the shares, so could sell 35% to raise cash

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42 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

At takeover Smisa will own 86% of the shares, so could sell 35% to raise cash

They could I suppose. There’s pros and cons in Share dealing, I don’t know if we’d raise as much as we have just spent to get the shares so might not be the best idea. Also long-term it would impact income. 

It also runs the risk of us being open to having to sell a controlling stake in the future if times are hard. 

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32 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:


 

 


I don't know if it's as high a percentage as that. I can't remember the actual number but it might be the following (quote from SMISA website) to be deducted from your total.

"It is also worth pointing out our agreement to buy Gordon’s shares does not include the 8% he owned before summer 2016 – we are only bound to buy the 42% he bought as part of this deal."

 

SMISA already own their own shares as well I’m sure. 

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50 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

They could I suppose. There’s pros and cons in Share dealing, I don’t know if we’d raise as much as we have just spent to get the shares so might not be the best idea. Also long-term it would impact income. 

It also runs the risk of us being open to having to sell a controlling stake in the future if times are hard. 

One of the reasons I was asking about continuing contributions. 

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53 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

One of the reasons I was asking about continuing contributions. 

I suppose they could sell a token amount, there will be a market for people that would like to say they're a shareholder but not actually be involved in decision making. I'm happy just to have my name up at the stadium, that was a very nice touch IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I suppose they could sell a token amount, there will be a market for people that would like to say they're a shareholder but not actually be involved in decision making. I'm happy just to have my name up at the stadium, that was a very nice touch IMO. 

None of my family have taken part but are St Mirren minded and have the financial capacity. I guess our concerns are more around the post purchase operation and financing of the club. Meanwhile we continue to buy season tickets, two of us are 1877 club members and one of us use the parking facility. You are right,  I think, that some of us would be happy to be shareholders. 

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You don’t need to have been on the SMISA board to know it’s garbage. The items LPM has issue with are all public knowledge and there has been no wrongdoing done or found.  If we had broken laws/ regulations we’d get punished. People often say I ‘must be linked to SMISA’ in reality I am not and not sure why anyone thinks I’d lie. 

 

I was thinking what certainty you have of unfounded garbage when LPM mentioned things said (when he was on the SMISA board). As you have never been involved, how could you know other than you choosing to interpret all he says as garbage. He will be like the cock of the north on here, if at a later date, it turns out there is some smoke. I sincerely hope you are right.

Onto more positive things, SMISA website says this

 

In summer 2016, SMISA and former St Mirren director Gordon Scott saw the terms of their joint offer to buy the majority shareholding in the club accepted by the former board. 

That meant Gordon became the new chairman and majority shareholder of St Mirren. At the same time, SMISA secured a 29% stake in the club and the right to elect a fan representative on to the club board.

 

We also have a legal option giving us the exclusive right to buy Gordon's shares within the next ten years and allow the fans to become majority owners of the club - keeping St Mirren in the hands of the community forever

 

SMISA owns 29% of the shares now. 

 

 

 

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On 1/4/2019 at 3:06 PM, St.Ricky said:

None of my family have taken part but are St Mirren minded and have the financial capacity. I guess our concerns are more around the post purchase operation and financing of the club. Meanwhile we continue to buy season tickets, two of us are 1877 club members and one of us use the parking facility. You are right,  I think, that some of us would be happy to be shareholders. 

Each to their own, I wish every st Mirren fan with the financial means to back BTB right now did so, but there will be people that don’t for whatever reason.

The conclusion of the deal is practically guaranteed given how steady and ahead of schedule the numbers are. Maybe in that timescale you and your own will have a change of heart and further contribute to this once in a lifetime fantastic opportunity for our club. 

But as always it’s personal choices. 

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15 hours ago, Kombibuddie said:

 

 

I was thinking what certainty you have of unfounded garbage when LPM mentioned things said (when he was on the SMISA board). As you have never been involved, how could you know other than you choosing to interpret all he says as garbage. He will be like the cock of the north on here, if at a later date, it turns out there is some smoke. I sincerely hope you are right.

Onto more positive things, SMISA website says this

 

 

SMISA owns 29% of the shares now. 

 

 

 

Have a look over LPM messages, he isn’t saying anything about what’s happening bwhind the scenes that are illegal. He’s talking about the £50k, funding wages and a whole matter of other stuff that is common knowledge and saying they’re illegal. 

I don’t need to interpret what he means because it’s clear, public and it’s all compliant with guidelines.

I say that not only from my professional knowledge, I say it from a sheer common sense POV. Think about it, if all this publicly known activity was illegal or breached regulation then we’d get in trouble. There would be consequences, fines and sanctions  (trust me FCA aren’t shy in issuing fines) 

If he had came out and said ‘X, Y & Z has happened behind closed doors and no one knows about it’ it would be a different story. He’s not, if that was indeed the case and he didn’t blow the whistle, he himself could be in a bit of hot water over failure to report guidance. 

As for the next part, yeah I believe that’s what we own right now, then at the end of BTB we get most GLS shares moving the fan group into majority owners. 

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5 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Each to their own, I wish every st Mirren fan with the financial means to back BTB right now did so, but there will be people that don’t for whatever reason.

The conclusion of the deal is practically guaranteed given how steady and ahead of schedule the numbers are. Maybe in that timescale you and your own will have a change of heart and further contribute to this once in a lifetime fantastic opportunity for our club. 

But as always it’s personal choices. 

What is this lifetime fantastic opportunity ?

The Club is presently owned by St Mirren Supporters.

I am not with BTB, but I still partly own the Club.

What the feck you on about Baz ?

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14 hours ago, shull said:

What is this lifetime fantastic opportunity ?

The Club is presently owned by St Mirren Supporters.

I am not with BTB, but I still partly own the Club.

What the feck you on about Baz ?

Moving the club into fan ownership in the conventional sense, as in owned by a fan group and not individuals. You’re splitting hairs saying ‘presently owned by St Mirren supporters’ 

BTB is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the club. When the club is owned by fans it offers us more protects from potentially been sold to people with less than honourable intentions, which has happened to several Scottish clubs. It also gives us the added benefit that we won’t have a chairman that runs it as their profit making business, again like some other clubs in Scotland. 

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Profit making ? 

I have been a shareholder for over 40 years and have never received or expected a dividend. 

We have been run successfully since Gilmour appeared. Now Scott is keeping things ticking over. 

So we have been run by Fans since the mid 1990's. 

No need for drastic change. 

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7 minutes ago, shull said:

Profit making ? 

I have been a shareholder for over 40 years and have never received or expected a dividend. 

We have been run successfully since Gilmour appeared. Now Scott is keeping things ticking over. 

So we have been run by Fans since the mid 1990's. 

No need for drastic change. 

So is it fair to say you don’t understand the difference between a football clubs owner(s) that happen to support the team and the concept of fan ownership? 

Fair enough, maybe something for you to research. 

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21 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

So is it fair to say you don’t understand the difference between a football clubs owner(s) that happen to support the team and the concept of fan ownership? 

Fair enough, maybe something for you to research. 

Both the same. 

 

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11 minutes ago, shull said:

St Mirren fans running the Club whether it is a handful or hundreds. 

I am already a shareholder. Why do I need to sign up for anything ? 

Didn’t say you did, I’m just saying you clearly don’t understand the concept of fan ownership. Maybe you would if you did. 

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